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Bad Guy Robert Ringhoff of PA,

i really thought the purpose of the BOI was to bring to light the "bad guys" in our hobby, which is exactly what the OP is trying to prove. we all have our ideas of what the market is on these animals, but to bash the guy for trying to take advantage of a deal doesn't make this any better. from what i can gather the OP made a deal with a seller for a group of animals. he paid the seller for the agreed upon animals and was not shipped what was promised. plain and simple the seller looks really bad with this information. why it's on the OP is beyond me. he might have gotten taken on this deal and i'm sure he learned a lesson, but the fact remains that posting here is what anyone of you would have done in the same situation. Jason, i hope this gets resolved for you and my only advice would be to purchase from reputable, well known breeders in the future.
 
Robert Ringhoff is a no name in this industry when it comes to being published online. There are some people that "know" or dealt with him from what he has said in the past (before this deal). It was a joint effort of Robert and paypal to completely screw me over on this. Paypal even told me that they can help me defraud people out of money just like they helped him, but they will only do it so many times till it becomes a known habit. I have purchased snakes from quite a few no name people and have had great results for the most part. There are some that have been doing this for a long time and don't have much of anything published good or bad about them online. The boi's are a tool, but can only take you so far. Good people can do bad things, too.

It sucks that this has happened, but I can only continue forward. This is a great hobby to be in and I am not going to let some jackass ruin it for me. I am very knowledeable on prices for most ball pythons when it comes to age, weight, morph/combo, and so on. I have only been in the hobby/business for three years, but have around 325 balls that make up my collection and may very well have the largest ball collection in my state. I hope to have a great year with around 170 breeding females this year.

I am not sure why some people are trying to tell me certain things about paypal that are not true. I would hope some day that they would call paypal and get some clarification on what they are talking about before trying to tell me about how paypal works. Paypal is not just for ebay; I know that for a fact and if you don't believe me CALL THEM. I know ebay owns paypal, but that doesn't mean paypal only handles ebay transactions because they will take anyone's money for just about anything.

I appreciate the support and will supply any new info that may arise.
 
Jason, a few times you've been asked about alerting Robert to this thread, but you only said that he won't talk to you so you cannot tell him about it. Have you not sent him an e-mail, allowing him the opportunity to come and share his side of the story? And my question earlier was not about a web site for him, but for his e-mail address or phone number. The copies of e-mails that you posted state your e-mail addy, but not his.
 
I didn't realize that his email wasn't posted. I just copy/pasted that stuff over. I am not emailing him anything right now with the pending investigations on his account. That is part of the reason why he won't email me either. I can't even get anything in writing of what he supposedly has submitted to paypal about this whole thing, only verbal. I am not sure what he would post since he can't keep any of his stories straight now. All of the new info that I am finding out about him and communications are going through paypal to keep everything streamlined. He should know about this through paypal. I even told paypal that I am posting about paypal and its policies on this boi.

I didn't mention how he shipped the snakes either. I mentioned that the package went through Delta, but it wasn't a proper package by any means. Robert supposedly had multiple boxes for the animals to be shipped to me with heat packs. Not quite the case. I received one styrofoam box that had some cracks and tape on it. No heat packs at all and there were a few pieces of crumpled newspaper in the box on top. Surprisingly, each snake had its own pillow case.
 
I want to say that I am sorry that this has happened to you, or anyone for that matter, BUT, you state while only being in this business for 3 years, you have 325 balls in your collection, with an approx 170 breeding females expected this season, I would think that you would have had enough past transactions to beable to tell you that something was wrong here.

I have to agree with Tom and Konstatine, Many Red Flags here. From your description of the pictures, you had absolutely no idea what you were purchasing, yet still sent money. I dont get it.

Chalk it up as a lesson learned
 
I didn't say that paypal only handles ebay transactions, I said that only ebay transactions and those thru ebay stores qualify for the buyer protection in regards to the items not being as purchased. If you buy something online and have money sent thru paypal all they care about is that a package was sent.

There is a good reason all my paypal payments are thru a credit card. Visa is always on my side so no worries about having to deal with paypal with regards to problems like this.
 
garweft said:
I didn't say that paypal only handles ebay transactions, I said that only ebay transactions and those thru ebay stores qualify for the buyer protection in regards to the items not being as purchased. If you buy something online and have money sent thru paypal all they care about is that a package was sent.

There is a good reason all my paypal payments are thru a credit card. Visa is always on my side so no worries about having to deal with paypal with regards to problems like this.
Click to expand...

Should say items not being as described
 
I was sent sent six pictures of one animal each. I received most of the animals in the pictures. One picture was of a mojave, but I didn't receive any mojaves. I used paypal to have protection becaused paypal isn't just for ebay transactions. Like I said call paypal if you don't believe me. If you call paypal or read their user agreement you would know that you are protected on items that are beyond ebay. They do have a list of stuff or situations that are not under their protection, but I have not found anything that states they don't protect you on animals like I was told on the phone. Now paypal is researching their own policies to figure out what they will/will not protect on animals. It does not say anything in their list of prohibited/non protected items about anything of animals or live stock.

As far as these red flags go, I never knew that an item could be too low priced. I have received items for free on transactions that I have made. Does that mean I was scammed on those, too? The main red flag is that he started coming up with excuses on why the animals were not being shipped. Supposed to ship on Monday evening, but there wouldn't be anyone at the Delta desk to give me the package that late. Then was supposed to ship the next day on Tuesday, but Delta supposedly wouldn't take his/his wife's card for payment. He says he tried to use his wife's card without her being there. That's when I filed my claim to get my money back through paypal since I was supposed to be protected. That week on Friday night is when I finally received this different group of animals.

I sent payal info that I did not receive what I should have and went from there. The case was being determined before they were reading all of the information. Now everything is being investigated again and people at paypal have finally acknowledged receipt of my emails.

The main thing is that I was told I was protected by paypal they are going back on their word for the time being. Using a credit card would cause the same problem because they are going to send me to paypal. A credit card dispute is the same as paypal as in them doing an "investigation". The main thing credit cards protect you on is unauthorized transactions. This case isn't exactly an unauthorized transaction.

Before anyone else tries to post anything else that is incorrect about good ole paypal that they think they know, call paypal and go to their site to make sure you have your facts straight. With the info that I have received from paypal, I won't be using them as much as I used to use them.
 
can you please post Robert's email address? If you don't plan to alert him to this thread, at least someone else can.

Are you able to post the pictures he sent you and pictures of what you actually received?
 
Thanks for the warning, but unless you attempt to make him aware so he can tell his side it's not worth much. If it went down the way you said it did then he is indeed a seller I'd like to avoid, but it's hard to convict someone without proof. Paypal will not usually return money if proof of shipment was provided by the seller. If it's a non E-bay transaction it's even less likely to get returned. I don't care what their website says or what they'll tell you on the phone. Many people have learned this the hard way, whether you choose to learn from their mis-fortune or not is up to you. I hope you either get the snakes you're supposed to or your money back. Good luck.:)
 
SuperMorph said:
I was sent sent six pictures of one animal each. I received most of the animals in the pictures. One picture was of a mojave, but I didn't receive any mojaves. I used paypal to have protection becaused paypal isn't just for ebay transactions. Like I said call paypal if you don't believe me. If you call paypal or read their user agreement you would know that you are protected on items that are beyond ebay. They do have a list of stuff or situations that are not under their protection, but I have not found anything that states they don't protect you on animals like I was told on the phone. Now paypal is researching their own policies to figure out what they will/will not protect on animals. It does not say anything in their list of prohibited/non protected items about anything of animals or live stock.
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Before anyone else tries to post anything else that is incorrect about good ole paypal that they think they know, call paypal and go to their site to make sure you have your facts straight. With the info that I have received from paypal, I won't be using them as much as I used to use them.
Click to expand...

Ok, I HAVE dealt with paypal previously regarding getting a refund for a snake purchase that I made that never arrived. I was told by them, after I spoke to them, that they only cover eBay purchases with buyer protection. Had I not used my credit card I would have been screwed out of $350. I was actually told by the paypal rep that I should file a claim through my credit card because there is nothing they can do about it.

Also, paypal's own website gives some indication that buyer protection is only available for purchases made through a website. Most animal purchases are person to person and therefore do not fall under this. Read the quoted text below taken from HERE


What is PayPal Purchase Protection?

Answer :

When you pay with PayPal on any website PayPal Purchase Protection covers you if you have a problem. If an item doesn’t arrive or is significantly not as described we will help you to get a full refund.

To qualify for PayPal Purchase Protection:

* Use PayPal to complete your payment.
* Pay for the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments aren't eligible.
* Let the seller know there's a problem with the transaction by opening a dispute in the Resolution Center within 45 days of making your payment. Then, escalate the dispute to a claim within 20 days of the date you opened the dispute.
* Keep your PayPal account in good standing.


If your transaction qualifies for PayPal Purchase Protection you are covered for the full purchase price plus the original shipping charges.

You can report your problem in the PayPal Resolution Center or the eBay Resolution Center. Either way, you’ll receive the same coverage. To find out how to report a problem on eBay, go to eBay and click Resolution Center at the bottom of any page.

Please note that some purchases such as vehicles in the Motors category, intangible items, capital equipment in the Business & Industrial category, and Real Estate aren't eligible for PayPal Purchase Protection.

To learn more about PayPal Purchase Protection and to see a full list of eligibility requirements and exclusions, please review our User Agreement. You can find the User Agreement by clicking Legal Agreements at the bottom of any PayPal page.
Click to expand...

Also, Paypal buyer protection is not all it is cracked up to be. See HERE
 
For the moment, I can NOT email him without going through paypal to do so. The communications must be tracked by paypal for me to have a chance with them to reverse the fraud. Paypal is informed of this boi and it is up to Robert to continue to keep up his communication with them and choose to reply in this thread. I have made multiple attempts to contact him, but he will not communicate with me. I don't think he is communicating with paypal much, either. He is taking the money and running. I think he may believe that some of the animals he sent were of the correct sex, but he already cut off all communication with me right after they were put on a plane.

There is more information that Robert submitted to paypal, but it is fabricated and paypal will not release that information to me in writting. As far as pics go, my email service will not let me do anything with these pics as far as copy/paste or forwarding. I can take pics of the animals that arrived that are not correct, but they are just normals.

Pics of some of the stuff doesn't matter. For instance, I was supposed to receive 1.2 pastels of certain weights. I did receive three pastels, but it was 3.0. I don't think he can properly sex snakes. Some of the males were over 1000g and I popped them no problem. He must not be capable of doing so.

Regardless of what happens to me, I just want people to be aware that Robert Ringhoff will rip you off. I knew that eventually I would be really ripped off in this business, but what I DIDN'T expect was for paypal to aid in that.

If someone doesn't believe me about this Robert, then do business with him and see if you get ripped off and how many annoying phone calls you get from him. I am very glad I am not talking to him regardless of the outcome. Even if everything went as planned, he is still annoying to talk to.
 
Yes, it is fine that you cannot contact him not through paypal. HOWEVER, you CAN post his email here and someone else can!!! I have seen a number of BOI threads that produced positive outcomes but only AFTER the seller came here and put in their two cents. Once they see how much a negative BOI thread can hurt their future business and/or business reputation, the ones that want to clear their name usually refund the money or attempt to make it right.
*Note: not all BOI threads work, but without trying you will never know.​
 
Kyle- I have read on paypals site what you have just posted. Where does it say ebay only or websites only??? I have had problems with purchases from individuals before and everything was sorted out fairly. Whether it was a partial refund or a reversal with sending items back.

Paypal is currently 'researching' their protection guidelines and should get back to me this week. I will post those results when I have them.
 
SuperMorph said:
Kyle- I have read on paypals site what you have just posted. Where does it say ebay only or websites only??? I have had problems with purchases from individuals before and everything was sorted out fairly. Whether it was a partial refund or a reversal with sending items back.

Paypal is currently 'researching' their protection guidelines and should get back to me this week. I will post those results when I have them.
Click to expand...

It doesn't explicitly say websites only, it implies it though. If they can find a way to get around paying you money out of their pocket they are going to do so.
 

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Implied is not 100%. That's why paypal is investigating/reviewing all of the information that was submitted. They are doing it a little late, but it is better than never. They are also looking at Robert's past transactions to see if there is a habit or repetition of what he is doing.

Why do you think the money was going to come out of paypals pocket? Paypal took $2000 from Robert on Tuesday since I had not received the animals yet. I think that is why he had kept some of the animals because he thought I was trying to rip him off. I changed the claim from not received to received not as described on Friday when they arrived. They released the funds to him at that time.
 
SuperMorph said:
Why do you think the money was going to come out of paypals pocket? Paypal took $2000 from Robert on Tuesday since I had not received the animals yet. I think that is why he had kept some of the animals because he thought I was trying to rip him off. I changed the claim from not received to received not as described on Friday when they arrived. They released the funds to him at that time.
Click to expand...

If he is simply scamming you and has no intention of making a business out of this, the money they released to him is GONE. Without any money in his account they cannot recoup any of it from him even if they find in your favor.

I HOPE that paypal comes back and says you are protected. However, based on my previous experiences that is not going to happen. I also got the "let us look into it and we will call you back." Still waiting on that call 2 years later :rolleyes:.
 
I have always called paypal back regardless of whether or not they email me back or not if I have a question or unresolved issue. If paypal changes their mind they will take the money out of his account or put his account in the negative. They did that to him last week and that is what made him angry. It is up to paypal to collect the money from him if he owes them money. In the first page of this thread, you can see when he emailed me that he told me to stop what I was doing because the money was frozen.
 
What have you told Paypal to get them to believe your story over his? You keep implying that Paypal is knowingly helping him scam you, but how would they know who to believe? If a buyer's word was enough, then sellers would be foolish to accept paypal as a form of payment. Have you given them some kind of proof that you haven't given us?
 
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