Robin?

[Wilomn]

I do have a question on another topic, sort of, entirely.

If it's called "chest thumping" when two guys do the square off and establish the pecking order thing, is it called "nipple tweaking" when two broads do it? You know, the old mine are bigger/perkier/whateverer?

Or is there another word for what these two are doing?

 

[W.Wedeking]

Omg

This is by fare the most utterly useless thread I have encounterd on any forum.

Lucille, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.


Rich, you used to be extremely worried and indeed, refused to add new moderators for fear that adding the wrong one would ruin the site. IMHO, a moderator that has to use the site to flaunt her personal issues with anyone is the wrong choice.

I have to say I am utterly disgusted.

 

[Jim O]

You know, the old mine are bigger/perkier/whateverer?

Whateverer do you mean?

 

[Chris@TSE]

I do have a question on another topic, sort of, entirely.

If it's called "chest thumping" when two guys do the square off and establish the pecking order thing, is it called "nipple tweaking" when two broads do it? You know, the old mine are bigger/perkier/whateverer?

Or is there another word for what these two are doing?

I prefer pissing duel...

Lookie here. I wrote my name in the snow!

 

[WebSlave]

I am STILL waiting for someone to give me even one example of something that Lucille has done, acting as a moderator, that would warrant the calls for me to remove her from that position. Anyone?

Even show me examples of preferential treatment towards Lucille that I have not on occasion given other people, even non mods as well, please.

All I see are unsupported generalities. Not one detail, not one fact, nothing at all but apparent personality conflicts that are blowing a molehill up into a mountain. Certainly not some groundswell of monumental numbers of abuses that these generalities seem to be inferring. If they were so widespread as is being inferred, why am I not being absolutely innundated with examples?

Am I reading this right? Some of you are stating that I should remove Lucille from her moderator status because she started this thread in The Welcome Club forum? That is the penalty you want me to exact for this? Don't be absurd.

If I had to remove every mod here because of someone complaining about something they did to someone else, they would all be gone. Myself? I would have had to remove myself from being admin probably three times a week. Certainly at least every other time that I have had to give someone warning points. Why the mods stick it out here with me, regardless of the abuse, just simply amazes me. They have all been cussed at, harassed and threatened MANY times simply because of helping me with this site. I think it is a huge measure of the kind of people they are to stick with me, regardless, and yet I am asked to beat them harder and punish them severely for any minor infraction. Get real, please.

This has been addressed before, not in this thread, but elsewhere under similar circumstances. I do NOT require that anyone asked to be a moderator for this site give up their personality. I do not ask that they become automatons and only able to act as a moderator and not as the person they are in participating on this site. Every moderator is still the same person they were before being a moderator and outside of that role. They can still have their personal opinions, still participate in threads, and still act in the same manner as anyone else NOT a moderator. They are NOT required to hold themselves to some lofty standard because they are also a moderator. They do not have to lose their subjectivity as a person because of the hoped for objectivity of being a moderator. There are certain functions on this site that only moderators can do. When they use those functions, it is expected that they act as a moderator when they do. On the reverse side of that, when they act as a regular member, they cannot use the functions of a moderator as an influence. To hold them to some higher standard when they are acting as a regular person here simply because they are also a moderator is ludicrous. It is ONLY when they are acting as a moderator that I would expect them to act in that sort of manner.

I believe I treat everyone as fairly as humanly possible. I also believe that not everyone is going to agree with what I consider fair. I will continue to do what I think is best, until hindsight shows me that I was wrong. Those who find this arrangement unbearable are under absolutely no obligation to remain here. Those who prefer how someone else runs their site has my blessings to go there and make their home there for all eternity.

I believe I have shown people in the past that I am willing to listen to criticism and willing to take what they say under advisement. I also believe I have indicated that I am under no obligation whatsoever to consider YOUR particular recommendations as being a necessity for me to implement or give any higher value then someone else's. And I also believe that I have shown that there is a point beyond which your criticisms and opinions are no longer considered helpful and constructive. You only need to tell me once. Telling me a second time does not change the opinion that I reached the first time I considered it.

But in any event, it appears that both Lucille and Robin have apparently abandoned this thread (and Lucille apparently this site) so you all have accomplished what you have set out to do. What's the point of continuing this further? You all know my thoughts on this. I don't particularly care if some disagree with it. That is just par for the course and I have been through this sort of tug of war MANY times.

As for adding other moderators, forget it. I am not going to ask someone else to have to go through what Lucille and my other mods have had to in the past from certain factions here.

 

[Jim O]

Rich,

I think that you are still missing some very basic points here. And as long as you continue to say what you do then I feel I need to reiterate. My apologies in advance to Kelli.

• Lucille made that post in an inappropriate location
• Robin got warning points and took them "like a man"
• Lucille is being held to a lower standard than Robin where she should be held to at least as high a standard if not a higher one

I have no personal issue with either Robin or Lucille. I don't really care what the origin of all this silly drama is quite honestly, but I do believe in fairness. Lucille was wrong, and she has run off because she feels "abused". The warning points you might issue for posting in an inappropriate forum and for use of what language she did would have only a symbolic meaning as we know that you aren't going to suspend Lucille. They would however show that you hold your moderators to a standard that is no less than that to which you hold the rest of us peons. Until you do that, then those so-called factions of which I don't believe I am a member (correct me if I am wrong but I don't belong to any club that would have me ) will continue to lose respect for you and your site and will continue to snipe at and hound Lucille at every opportunity. And what's worse, by letting Lucille "get away" with this behavior you are giving a positive reinforcement for this behavior that is probably about the last thing that she needs at this point in time.

 

[ms_terese]

If I had to remove every mod here because of someone complaining about something they did to someone else, they would all be gone. Myself? I would have had to remove myself from being admin probably three times a week. Certainly at least every other time that I have had to give someone warning points. Why the mods stick it out here with me, regardless of the abuse, just simply amazes me. They have all been cussed at, harassed and threatened MANY times simply because of helping me with this site. I think it is a huge measure of the kind of people they are to stick with me, regardless, and yet I am asked to beat them harder and punish them severely for any minor infraction. Get real, please.

I agree. I've always respected the mods here tremendously, and I can't think of a single instance that would demonstrate otherwise.

The concern was raised at Lucille's choice for starting a new thread in The Welcome Club that seemed to be inappropriate for the forum. I mean, it even referred to a neg rep point for a post that was in a DIFFERENT forum. There was no disagreement that it wasn't an appropriate choice, even from you.

The question then, was why did Lucille make that choice? She chose not to answer that question. However, I think that Webslave provided the answer that most people suspect was the truth

Sorry, but I just disagree. When I make someone a specific moderator of a site, as I did for Lucille in THIS forum, I don't leave strings attached. It's that "authority" and "responsibility" thing.

Although I think it is inappropriate here, I have never placed such a specific restriction about it and I certainly am not inclined to do so in a retroactive manner.

Personally, I would prefer to move it, but I am not making that call.

That prompted my comments to you that it shouldn't be ok to utilize one's authority as a moderator here for personal gain when it's detrimental to FC. I certainly didn't expect you to

beat them harder and punish them severely for any minor infraction.

No one asked for her to be ridden out of town on a rail.

As I mentioned before, mods have to be a bit thick skinned around here or anywhere. It's really part of the picture. Some folks can handle that, others can't. The FC moderators can count on an overwhelming amount of support, even if they DO come under attack by another member....the sheer volume of other members that come to their support is consistently extensive.

Lucille has done alot of good here, of that there is no doubt. Yet, there seem to be aspects of Lucille's personality that others find offensive. That's well and good, since

I do NOT require that anyone asked to be a moderator for this site give up their personality. I do not ask that they become automatons and only able to act as a moderator and not as the person they are in participating on this site. Every moderator is still the same person they were before being a moderator and outside of that role. They can still have their personal opinions, still participate in threads, and still act in the same manner as anyone else NOT a moderator. They are NOT required to hold themselves to some lofty standard because they are also a moderator. They do not have to lose their subjectivity as a person because of the hoped for objectivity of being a moderator. There are certain functions on this site that only moderators can do. When they use those functions, it is expected that they act as a moderator when they do. On the reverse side of that, when they act as a regular member, they cannot use the functions of a moderator as an influence. To hold them to some higher standard when they are acting as a regular person here simply because they are also a moderator is ludicrous. It is ONLY when they are acting as a moderator that I would expect them to act in that sort of manner.

Kudos to you, for you shouldn't expect them to change their personality. What I am trying to say to you is that some of Lucille's actions WHILE ACTING AS A MODERATOR may be harmful to this site, and you should CARE about that and address it. Someone brought up the sexual content of Lucille's posts in the Lonely Hearts Club forum, and you were absolutely correct in your response to that: that's an Over 18 forum and she has every right to post to her heart's content.

No one is asking you to not defend her, to not point out that Lucille has a zillion redeeming qualities, and that apparently this feud is clouding her usual thoughtful judgment. Let's face it, she considered Marcia's negative points and comments about her post "abusive" to the point that she equated it with a child being abused. Even you couldn't find any abuse in what Marcia wrote. It would have been more appropriate for you just to acknowledge that Lucille is not flawless, and not try to mask this error in judgment by simply attacking the other party in the feud and anyone who criticized Lucille for this thread. In attempting to defend her in this manner, you managed to confirm others' feeling that she hides behind you and doesn't have the spine to defend her own position.

I don't think that Lucille has been chased off this site. I think she's logged in as a guest and is devouring every word, and will be back when its died down. Yet I won't be surprised to see Lucille return with a renewed commitment to stand up for the good people of Fauna against the bullies that want to poison it. I think that dramatic attitude from a moderator may be harmful to this site. If I'm reading it correctly, that's ALL anyone is trying to tell you.

 

[shrap]

I think some peoples feelings are not about just this thread alone. I summed up my feelings on this thread long ago. Here is a refresher in case you missed it:

This is truly sad. Truly PETTY. Grow the **** up.

I think it all started long ago with minor squabbles here and there and some the still continue. Lucille then edited a persons post based on her personal feelings instead of forum rules. That escalated things a bit. Then on another thread in the BOI, she was given some confidential info and then took it upon herself to use it in ways that were way out of line and none of her business. Then this thread right on the heels of that. I think some people are seeing a trend with her poor choices, not just with this thread.

 

[shrap]

Oh, I almost forgot. No I do not think Lucille needs to be removed as a mod. I just think she needs to use better judgment as a person in general and try to solve her own self inflicted problems herself.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

After reading what Kelli wrote, I can't comprehend why some people continue to beat this dead horse..................... But then again maybe I can relate to her thinking. My mother is in a coma and the doctors can't wake her up. I for one have much bigger things to worry about.

Rich has made his point time and time again. Robin, Chris, Marcia, Wes, and many others have made theirs clear too. The opinions are always the same, just written with a new spin on each new post.

This is all just petty bull****. I for one am absolutely ashamed of myself for posting on this thread at all. It has been a waste of space since the beginning. And then to top it all off we have references to the Nazi reign of WWII.

Walk away from the computer and hug your kids, give your spouse a kiss, call you parents and tell them how much they mean to you. There a world of more important things to focus on other than this silly little thread.

 

[WebSlave]

That prompted my comments to you that it shouldn't be ok to utilize one's authority as a moderator here for personal gain when it's detrimental to FC. I certainly didn't expect you to No one asked for her to be ridden out of town on a rail.

Again WHAT actions has Lucille done using her authority as a moderator here for personal gain? All I am asking for is evidence of that, and so far no one has offered up any.

What I am trying to say to you is that some of Lucille's actions WHILE ACTING AS A MODERATOR may be harmful to this site, and you should CARE about that and address it.

And yet again, please tell me what actions Lucille has done WHILE ACTING AS A MODERATOR that you are referring to. She posted that thread in The Welcome Club forum just as any other regular member could have done. As far as I am aware, she did NOTHING at all to or about that thread beyond what other regular members could also do. Please correct me if I am wrong about that. And if this is not the incident you are referring to, then what exactly ARE you referring to? I do hate to repeat myself, but why isn't my request for details seemingly sinking in?

It would have been more appropriate for you just to acknowledge that Lucille is not flawless, and not try to mask this error in judgment by simply attacking the other party in the feud and anyone who criticized Lucille for this thread. In attempting to defend her in this manner, you managed to confirm others' feeling that she hides behind you and doesn't have the spine to defend her own position.

Sometimes you have to respond in like kind to get some people's attention. Nothing I did as far as I am concerned was an attack. Perhaps a vigorous defense would be more accurate. People were lashing out and sometimes it takes a verbal slap alongside the face to get their attention. In other words, to those whom this applies, if you can't take it, then don't dish it out.

I don't think that Lucille has been chased off this site. I think she's logged in as a guest and is devouring every word, and will be back when its died down. Yet I won't be surprised to see Lucille return with a renewed commitment to stand up for the good people of Fauna against the bullies that want to poison it. I think that dramatic attitude from a moderator may be harmful to this site. If I'm reading it correctly, that's ALL anyone is trying to tell you.

You lost me. What "dramatic attitude"? And from whom?

<hr><hr>

Rich,

I think that you are still missing some very basic points here. And as long as you continue to say what you do then I feel I need to reiterate. My apologies in advance to Kelli.

• Lucille made that post in an inappropriate location
• Robin got warning points and took them "like a man"
• Lucille is being held to a lower standard than Robin where she should be held to at least as high a standard if not a higher one

Point number one is a warning point with a value of "1". Point 2 is a warning point with a value of "10". They are rated as such because of my opinion of what constitutes a more abusive use of the system. Matter of fact, a warning point of "1" is really more of a "Hey bud! You made a mistake!" rather then an actual punitive action.

If the roles had been reversed, or if that had been identical in severity, then BOTH Lucille and Robin would have gotten identical warning points assessed against them.

Does everyone understand the concept of levels of severity? Does everyone understand why I would be much more prone to ignore the lower levels rather then the higher ones? Regardless of who they applied to? Does anyone here THINK that I apply warning points to everyone each and every time I see a rule infraction without fail and with no exceptions? But I am repeating myself again. No, I do NOT always assess warning points even when the post obviously is a violation. I have moved countless threads without the poster getting dinged for it. I felt them having to FIND the darn thing afterwards was punishment enough. :laugh:

I have no personal issue with either Robin or Lucille. I don't really care what the origin of all this silly drama is quite honestly, but I do believe in fairness. Lucille was wrong, and she has run off because she feels "abused". The warning points you might issue for posting in an inappropriate forum and for use of what language she did would have only a symbolic meaning as we know that you aren't going to suspend Lucille. They would however show that you hold your moderators to a standard that is no less than that to which you hold the rest of us peons. Until you do that, then those so-called factions of which I don't believe I am a member (correct me if I am wrong but I don't belong to any club that would have me ) will continue to lose respect for you and your site and will continue to snipe at and hound Lucille at every opportunity. And what's worse, by letting Lucille "get away" with this behavior you are giving a positive reinforcement for this behavior that is probably about the last thing that she needs at this point in time.

The symbolic meaning, at this point, would be a double edged sword. Now it would most certainly mean "Hey we can badger WebSlave until he finally gives in to out demands!" Lucille did NOT "get away" with anything more then countless other people here have "gotten away with". Posting a thread in an inappropriate forum is really not that big of a deal on this site concerning all the other crap that takes place here. She did not post that as a moderator, did not use anything that she could as a moderator on or with that thread, and she did not ABUSE the moderation authority in any way, shape, or form as far as I can determine.

Look at the list of warnings in the warnings list. Just about ALL of those were put in place after the fact. In other words, people would DO the things those points warn against and I had to try to coerce people into ceasing that sort of activity.

I know this is not clear to everyone, but I'm going to ask anyway. Is this finally CLEAR to everyone? I'm not asking if you AGREE, I'm asking if you understand what I am saying.

 

[WebSlave]

And Rich if you want to give me points for saying the word bull**** it's ok. <half hearted smile/>

Not a chance, Kelli, not a chance in hell.

I sincerely hope you weren't "invited" to this thread by someone.

Does this thread still need to go on?

 

[Bill_Leverton]

OK Ive read All of this and there is Alot to read And I do have respect for everyone that posted here.... But one Question that was brought up here was the Auction ....and maybe if I missed it I'm sorry but after the Auction For Hayden Is done, is the Auction gone, I mean it was said that the Auction came about to try to stop this from becoming a pay site But it did and still people are auctioning off stuff.... Just curious about this Rich...Thank You And good Evening

 

[Manhattan Herps]

ok..y'know what..this really needs to stop now..sometimes i have to stop and wonder wonder if a few of the people here are actually infact adults, this really is some petty f@!kin BS, you all have made your points, and like mike said, there are more important things to be worrying about than some pathetic thread started by someone who was obviously picking a fight, let this be the last post here, realize how childish some of you are looking right now,i'm not trying to offend anyone, but i'm stating what i see, just let this thread die now, there is no point in letting it go on, non of it is worth the frustration or anger that it is causing, just let it go guys, c'mon now, go clean out cages, or feed your herps, or talk to loved ones, play with your kids or just stare at them and pray you never have to feel what kelli is feeling now, or just sit and pray, some of you may not agree with that, but it helps

i did not want to post anything like this, but i feel it had to be said, this will be the last of my posting here, this is not worth my time

 

[verborreia]

I am from Portugal and while I do not condone Robin’s message I felt the need to post this:


Acho que este tópico já foi longe demais e devia ser fechado. Há muito tempo. Nem há nenhuma informação útil a ser discutida, é sempre a mesma merda. É completamente irrelevante para questões reais e, na minha opinião, este tópico nunca devia ter começado. Vocês precisam de sair e fazer algo útil e significativo; abracem o(s) vosso(s) filho(s), beijem a vossa mãe ou o vosso pai, digam a quem amam que os amam e apreciem-nos. Mesmo que não haja ninguém por perto, vejam o pôr-do-sol e deliciem-se com a beleza à vossa volta. Isto é totalmente ridículo e uma desonra à humanidade. Eu acho que alguns de vós deviam crescer, foda-se!

Since this is an English based ONLY site, here is the translation:

I think this thread has gone too far and should be locked or closed. Long ago. No useful information is even being discussed, just the same **** over and over. It is totally irrelevant to the real issues and in my opinion this thread should have never been started in the first place... You guys need to go out and do something useful and meaningful; hug your child, kiss your mom or dad, tell your loved ones that you love them and appreciate them. Even if no one is around watch a sunset and enjoy the beauty around you… This is utterly ridiculous and a disgrace to humanity. I think a few of you guys just need to grow the **** up.

 

[Ophis]

Greeting Verrborreia. I share your sentiments regarding this thread. I used to live in the Andalucia region of Spain and always intended to make a visit too Lisbon. I have always regreted not making the trip. I notice that this is your first post here. How did you run accross this site and thread?

 

[WebSlave]

OK Ive read All of this and there is Alot to read And I do have respect for everyone that posted here.... But one Question that was brought up here was the Auction ....and maybe if I missed it I'm sorry but after the Auction For Hayden Is done, is the Auction gone, I mean it was said that the Auction came about to try to stop this from becoming a pay site But it did and still people are auctioning off stuff.... Just curious about this Rich...Thank You And good Evening

Didn't really want to continue this thread, but I didn't want to ignore this either by not replying.

The auction forum will be removed as soon as all active auctions have ended. Perhaps they have already, I haven't checked. Anyone having need to copy the details of an auction in that section are advised to do so real soon. Yes, that auction section was started up as Lucille's idea to help defray the costs of running the site. It did help, but I think all total, the amount of money it brought in might pay my server bill for one month. Certainly as a reliable method of predictable monthly income, there is no way I could foresee that such a goal could ever be met. So yes, I guess the plug should have been pulled a long time ago. It just wasn't on my radar screen, since I didn't have to mess with it very often.

But for what it's worth, some people evidently had fun with it, and sellers used it for a bit of extra exposure. But that was Lucille's ball of wax and I only agreed to it in the first place because she was willing to manage it. I had my fill of auctions with my failed attempt with FaunaAuction, and that was quite enough for me as a "hands on" project.

 

[verborreia]

I'ma friend of Robin's, so...

About that trip to Lisbon... You should 'cause it's beautiful.

 

[Jim O]

There's bad words in that Portuguese.

 

[Ophis]

I'ma friend of Robin's, so...

About that trip to Lisbon... You should 'cause it's beautiful.

So I have heard.