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Rodney Gagne/[email protected] OR BAD GUY?

L

ljsreptiles

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I wanted to see if anyone knows this guy..Rodney Gagne/[email protected]? I saw him on reptibids with lots of good reviews so i bought from him. Now I keep getting email about how my animals haven't arrived to him yet, its getting fishy. Any feedback would be great.
 
Leslie, the simple answer is: don't sell what you have never owned (unless you're shorting stocks).

Mr. Gagne appears to have violated that cardinal rule. There are exceptions of course why an order could not be filled, but not *ever* having the animals is not such an exception. Commodities like flexwatt are different. They are manufactured and an anticipated lot may become back ordered. Animals are not manufactured. Either you have them or you do not.

We've heard one side of this. I wonder what the seller has to say. Baring a compelling explanation I'd give a thumbs down and a sign.
:toiletcla
 
supposedly he was getting in large lots of CH baby ball pythons. I ordered them due to the many good reviews on reptibids. Hopefully it won't come back to haunt me...i'll be sure to keep this updated.
 
Leslie,

Did he take, or even ask for your money without having the animals in his possession?
 
Brokering

By itself Brokering any commodity is not unfair, nor is it illegal. That said, it implies certain things that make doing it with live animals a bit difficult. First, most brokers accept terms, meaning, they ship before they get paid. This rarely, if ever, happens with herps because of all of the scammers and our resulting distrust. If he doesn't have your money already, then its not really an unussual thing to have not gotten your "order" yet. If he does have your money however, then get on him and stay on him til you get it back, or your animals.

Shawn
 
Well, I tracked him down using the white pages. I got lucky, and got the right phone #. It was a presale. he was expecting several shipments of ball pythons and never got them. He offered to refund my money, or get them to me saturday and he'll pay for the extra shipping. The guy I dealt with was craig, well spoken and fair person on the phone. No problems after speaking to him.
 
Shawn,

I agree with everything you said. But this seller offered something on an auction site that he did not possess. That's a little different than simply brokering. Unless, of course, the listing clearly stated that fact. JMHO.

I have no problem with brokering reptiles per se, but the people doing it need to be upfront about it. Anything less casts doubt on their integrity in an "industry" full of people with less than high levels of just that.
 
ljsreptiles said:
Well, I tracked him down using the white pages. I got lucky, and got the right phone #. It was a presale. he was expecting several shipments of ball pythons and never got them. He offered to refund my money, or get them to me saturday and he'll pay for the extra shipping. The guy I dealt with was craig, well spoken and fair person on the phone. No problems after speaking to him.
Click to expand...
So he did take your money before he had the snakes to ship. Not cool IMO, even if he does eventually make good. And I am a bit concerned as to who "Craig" is and who "Rodney" is. It may mean nothing but it is a second red flag (the first being that he took your money without having possession of the "goods").

Please post a follow up and let everyone here know what happened.
 
So he did take your money before he had the snakes to ship. Not cool IMO, even if he does eventually make good.
Click to expand...

Jim,

You have a point. But have you read the ball python ads lately? Most brokers are accepting orders on baby ball pythons they haven’t received yet. It’s a common practice that’s done year after year. I have no doubt they'll make good on their deals. Similarly, breeders are taking deposits on clutches they haven't yet hatched or in some cases even laid.

Regards.
 
Dan,

Accepting deposits on eggs in the incubator is one thing. Accepting money for something you may never produce is quite another. I can't say that I am up on the Ball Python market but *I* would not choose to do business with people like that. However, if one does, then one should be informed, It should never be "Oops, I have your money and can't produce the snakes."

But again, one thing we do not know for sure is whether or not the buyer was informed before paying that this was the case. If he was, then caveat emptor. If he was led to believe these snakes were "in stock", paid for them, and only then was informed, that to me is bad business practice. Again, JMHO.

(I knew there was a reason I sold most of my balls. LOL).
 
If he was led to believe these snakes were "in stock", paid for them, and only then was informed, that to me is bad business practice.
Click to expand...

If that’s the case I agree 100% with you. As far as giving money in advance for snakes that are not yet in the possession of the person that’s probably in a case by case basis. There are certain brokers with whom I would have no problem whatsoever in giving money upfront.
 
The BoidSmith said:
Jim,

You have a point. But have you read the ball python ads lately? Most brokers are accepting orders on baby ball pythons they haven’t received yet. It’s a common practice that’s done year after year. I have no doubt they'll make good on their deals. Similarly, breeders are taking deposits on clutches they haven't yet hatched or in some cases even laid.
Click to expand...


If that is the case Dan then it should be spelled out in the ad. This falls into the category of misrepresentation if it was not described as taking orders. I agree with Jim on this one. Offerring them for auction without giving the details is definitely a lie of omission
 
Searching RreptileAuction.com, here is the text of the listing:
BABY BALL PYTHONS 05 babies!!!
Item #1113056211
Seller FeedBack: [ Rating: 18 ] [ Number of Votes/Comments: 18 ]

Current Time: Thu Apr 21, 07:01 AM
Show description
Bid!
Current Bid: $25.00 (Dutch Fixed Price) First bid: $25.00
Dutch Auction: yes Quantity: 100 Sold: 26
Time left: Closed Number of bids: 7 (bid history)
Started: Sat Apr 02, 09:16 AM Location: Boerne, TX, 78006
Closed on: Sat Apr 09, 09:16 AM Ask seller a Question: (ask or view Q&A)

Seller: Craig (sellers's feedback:( 18 ) ) - (sellers other auctions) -

High bidder: Happy_herps (bidders's feedback:( -2 ) ) - (bidders auctions)

Payment Options: See item description for payment methods accepted.
Shipping Terms: Buyer Pays
Condition of Item: Captive Born

Seller assumes all responsibility for listing this item.
You should contact the seller to resolve any questions before bidding.
Currency is $ unless otherwise noted.
Description

BABY BALL PYTHONS 05 babies!!!

Here we go!!

BABIES FOR 2005!!! They will be available in 1 WEEK!!

These are Captive Born babies that were hand picked for color and size.

Pre order now and SAVE!!

Order 1 for $25.00
2 for $45.00

10 for $190.00

They will be $25.00 on the auction but if you buy more then these prices apply, still bid we will work the price out in an e-mail.

Or more? E-mail at [email protected]

I will have at least 100 available and they will be able to be sold in 1 week!

Shipping will cost $38.00 through DHL

Dont miss on this pre order opertunity!

e-mail at [email protected]

gereptiles.250free.com

sorry for no pictures but reptibid wont let me? And I dont know why...

Craig



Bid History
(Bidders name: Iamhatedyay) - (Bid Time: Sat Apr 02, 11:06 AM) - (Amount of bid: $25.00) X (Quanity: 1)
(Bidders name: Shamrocked) - (Bid Time: Sun Apr 03, 04:30 AM) - (Amount of bid: $25.00) X (Quanity: 1)
(Bidders name: Iluvdatpink) - (Bid Time: Sun Apr 03, 09:59 PM) - (Amount of bid: $25.00) X (Quanity: 1)
(Bidders name: Dunelandpet) - (Bid Time: Tue Apr 05, 12:59 PM) - (Amount of bid: $25.00) X (Quanity: 10)
(Bidders name: Dark_raven_365) - (Bid Time: Tue Apr 05, 02:26 PM) - (Amount of bid: $25.00) X (Quanity: 1)
(Bidders name: Miker43302) - (Bid Time: Tue Apr 05, 06:27 PM) - (Amount of bid: $25.00) X (Quanity: 10)
(Bidders name: Happy_herps) - (Bid Time: Thu Apr 07, 08:31 AM) - (Amount of bid: $25.00) X (Quanity: 2)
Click to expand...

And in response to a question:

Post on: Wed Apr 06, 04:01 PM
so i take it these are infact captive hatched imports.

Response on this item from (seller): Craig
Post on: Wed Apr 06, 06:16 PM
Yes, as stated above they are...

Craig
Click to expand...
Seems it was at least implied that they were not yet "in stock". That listing is a Dutch Auction that ran from 4/2-2005-4/9-2005.

I still have a question. Who is Craig and who is Rodney? Maybe that's two questions. LOL.

All I can say is caveat emptor. But I'm not certain that Craig or Rodney did anything truly deceptive. I would not have paid in full for animals not in stock but I *might* have given a deposit to hold some. Not sure. But it's possible I would have if I had at least spoken to the guy(s) on the phone first.
 
Most brokers try not to infere all the time that they are brokering. Otherwise, the buyers, if motivated, will try to find the cheaper source for the product. Brokers, when asked, should ethically always admit that they are a broker, but I don't think that exactly means that they have to be upfront with it al the time. In this case, the sellers eluded to the fact that they might be brokers without actually saying it. That was probably the best solution. As I said earlier, most of them, as an incentive to buy, offer terms. They would ship the product first, and be paid once it arrives. This just doens't work for reptile brokers, because of the trust issue. So its a tough spot to be in. On one hand, if you advertise that your a broker, your shooting yourself in the foot, but if you don't, your not exactly being honest either. Sucks all around. Funny how our little wierd herp trading world works.

Shawn
 
Shawn,

A broker should be either "adding value" or buying in bulk large enough that he can sell smaller numbers at a profit. Otherwise what is the point? In this case I think that enough information was given in the listing and in the response that these animals were CH in Africa that it is quite obvious that he is in fact a broker. If the seller buys 100 of them (or whatever number) and sells them retail, giving a discount for multiple purchases there is nothing wrong with that. That's completely ethical. Still not my first choice, but definitely no serious attempt to deceive. Sometimes the "value added" is simply going through the process of arranging and facilitating the delivery of the items and that also is perfectly legitimate.

One issue I do take, and this is off the "main" topic, but relates to "adding value". If I were to be in the business of brokering CH imported Ball Pythons, I would make certain that they are feeding before shipping. That would be a service "of value" IMO. If I were not doing that, I would be upfront in the listing that I have NOT in fact confirmed that they are feeding. That was absent from the listing, sadly. None of that, however, takes away from the fact that this seller was not blatantly dishonest, or really dishonest at all. But to be completely upfront, these might have been listed as "CH Imported Baby Ball Pythons" and that they would not have been observed by the seller to be feeding. To me that is a significant omission when talking about any Ball Python, not least one who has recently gone through the stress of importation.

Just another $0.02.
 
Again, my point is more that this industry is different than most. Brokering live animals, though its not illegal or ethically wrong, does tend to leave alot of open questions, making it alot tougher than brokering bails of hay or some other commodity. The trust factor is so destroyed already, and the fact that each animal, even though you may be buying 100 of them, can be different, it really just complicates the whole deal. As a broker myself, I would never try this with herps. Too many variables.

Shawn
 
I emailed this "craig" during th auction about group pricing. I never placed a bid on them as you can see. I emailed him "1 week" after the auction ended when these snakes were supposed to be in his possession already. He told me he coudl ship ASAP, then all of a sudden they kept getting delayed. Craig never called me as I asked, but i used the name on the paypal account to find a phone # in the AOL white pages. I found one in Texas with an email address ending @msn.com, same as his. i called and asked for rodney..the person said.."he's not here, this is craig". He sounded a bit surprised to hear it was me on the other end. He sent me a refund of an Echeck. I sent him an instant transfer, which is what I expected to get as a refund. I can't wait 5 days for this check to clear, and whatif it doesn't clear. I asked him to cancel that, and send an instant transfer refund. He said he would try, and he never did. So, i'm waiting for this check to go through.
 
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