RYAN OLMAK ([email protected]) FROM MICHIGAN

[jim scharphorn]

I am not taking sides but just to let you know I am in Mi also.

Beth, You do realize that when a baby panther is born it is only about 1/2 to 3/4 of a inch long from snout to vent ? and at about 2 months old they are about 1 1/2 to 2 inches long.

 

[Ryan67stang]

Beth I am really sorry your not happy but I did everythng I can to make you happy you act like I never offered a return. what you wanted was $35 for each chameleon and im sorry but its not going to happen $35+$35+30=$100 because you demanded several times that you wanted a $200 refund or you were going to take me to court and file internet fraud with the FBI as you have done, thats the only thing that would make you happy. I got an ok pic of one on a ruler its at least three inches with its tail and I told every one who placed an order even Beth that they were 3" with there tail. I wish you would stop making me look like a bad breeder im not at all and shipping a chameleon at any age is stressful but I don't fell if the 2 months or 2 years it much difference at 2 months they can handel it just as much as 2 year old ones.

Beth how come you never called me at all? you said you left a messege with my brother but he said no one called.

If there still alive I will still refund your money and if they arn't give me a call and we can work something out but your not going to get a full refund, I never guaranteed them to be healthy for any amount of time, if you don't give a chameleon what it needs it can and most likely will die in a week if not sooner. this chameleon in the pic is about the same size as the ones beth received. I gave her the two biggest ones in the clutch this one was about 2.5" when I sold them to her and hers were 3". I couldn't get the tail to be straight but if you see it you can tell the chameleon pictured is 3.25"

I showed you a few pics of them before you bought them and you never asked to see one on a hand or a ruler. I have done this in the past but don't unles someone requests it.

Im sorry everyone thinks im a horrible person and im sorry for my last rude post but I was just fed up with all of these things that were said about me and none were true at all. Thanks Ryan

everyone wants something for nothing but it just doesn't happen.

 

[Wilomn]

ryan,

The simple fact is you did not deliver what Beth paid for. You know this, I know this, Beth knows this, and everyone who reads this forum knows this. That sharp pain you are feeling in your backside is you actually screwing yourself.

If you are such a knowledgable breeder then how come you don't know how to measure your animals? Tail length is not considered part of length. It's ALWAYS SNOUT TO VENT or in other words from the tip on the nose to where they poop. Comprende?

I have a gut feeling that Beth will post the picture of the dead baby real soon. Then what will you do? Make it right now, try to salvage some sort of business reputation and move on.

If one person came on here and said they are not dealing with you because of this thread it's reasonable to figure that at least TEN others are not and just aren't bothering to tell you so. Do the math, you seem good at that. If each one was to spend only one hundred dollars with you, you just lost ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS. Smooth move junior.

She deserves a refund simply because you did not send her the animals she paid for. You are back peddling now and soon will join the esteemed ranks of gubitz and bowles. Great company if you want to do NO business at all.

Buck up, pay up, and try to guild a reputation as a good guy instead of a money hungry liar.

Wes Pollock

 

[Ryan67stang]

wilomn how can you say I didn't give her what she paid for? I did im not even sure if the pics she posted are of my chameleons I sent her there skiny and almost black mine are big and fat she is the money hungry liar as you put it suing me for a losy $200. I have a real 8-4:30 job and have plenty of money. The fact is I don't owe anyone anything especially not Beth. the sharp pain in my back is from falling off of a 12" ladder today at work not from screwwing my self, is that even possible. most people that sell chameleons measure from snout to vent, none of the books do they all say they willl get from 14"-20" is that snought to vent? Have you ever seen a 20" svl panther chameleon? I haven't. Who cares how you measure your chameleons as long as you inform your clients the way you measure.your gut feeling about the dead chameleons might be right might not be. But if she is such the experienced herp keeper she says she is then they would be alive. I haven't lied at all either but you can think what you want your the one who got the chameleons and killed them right

 

[Wilomn]

Appattently you do have some problems with measurements. That fall off the 12 INCH ladder must have damaged you ability to reason.

One more guy on the Do Not Buy From List.

Wes Pollock

 

[John Apple]

I said this.......................

Yup a lot of us 'locals' are reading this
Hey Ryan....guess what?....
cmon you chameleon breeder you.....
go on guess.....
give up???
well here goes.
I got your name and I got a big freakin mouth, hell man go ask Robert Carr.
What you did was wrong
Beth's words
i responded to his 1st ad on 6/28, paid for them on 7/3 he finally shipped them to me on 7/17, 1 was dead when i got up yesterday morning 7/24 and the other died late in the afternoon yesterday.
I am guessing here, most likely right , us' breeders' know this right Ryan???
They started hatching on the28 to the 3rd
Ya got your money on the 3rd [this is after you said these hatchlings were 2-3 months old]
the babies had to grow a couple of weeks so you could 'move' them, mind you now Beth allready paid for 2-3 month old panthers.Still with me here Ryan??
So now you have had her money for 2 weeks and you ship her 2 week old chameleons, does that about sound right Ryan??
Thought so, I am sure the role played out above is very close to the actual happening
There are a lot of fellow loudmouths in Michigan much like my self[probably not as mean or ugly as me] so Bryan are ya gonna fix this???
word to the wise [ well to you anyhow Bryan]
make this right

any thoughts here Ryan???

 

[John Apple]

Oh and one more thing
What kind of backward way are you measuring you chameleons???
nose to tail??

As we 'breeders' know its snout to vent

 

[evansnakes]

Ryan, why do you keep posting the same pics over and over again? It is not helping you.

 

[FLLDIVER]

ryan you are trying to tell me and everyone here that the pics you posted on pg 7 on the ruler are the same size of the ones that i recvd on pg 4 ???? the bodies of the ones i recvd were 1" long and yes, very thin and weak ... you state first that you sold out of the older ones and sent me what was left, then you state that you sent me the biggest ones you had. you also told me you SOLD out of all your babies. how do you still have more to sell ? what exactly is the TRUTH - you have changed your story so many times - just in these posts alone - please before you dig yourself any deeper, get your story straight and stick to 1 version.

i do not have them ... as i said they died. i did take a pic of the 2nd one that died .... my stupidity i disposed of the bodies. i have NO reason to lie to you - remember i am the one who paid you in good faith $300 for the 3 month olds - 1 sexed pair. i am the one who did not receive what i paid for. ryan, with the heat and the age of what you shipped - it was too much stress on their little bodies.

i volunteer with a no-kill rescue group and rescue animals daily. if there was something that could have been done to save them - trust me i would have. it just kills me to see animals suffer, because of the stupidity of people. i see it daily and what you did is a prime example of this.

i did try to call you and did speak to your brother. i will also have the phone records to prove that just as i have the records to prove everything else in this transaction.

but there is no reason for me to call you - you can let me know what you decide to do through these posts - so everyone will know if you will make this right or not.

the reason you may have money to blow is 1. because you live with your parents and i'm sure most everything is paid for you.... 2. you are making lots of money by screwing people like me. when you grow up and become an adult - and have to pay to support yourself and actually have responsibility - MAYBE, JUST MAYBE you will understand that you cannot walk through life and think you can get away with frauding people and get away with it.

i do know this has already affected several transactions you have tried to complete - buying and selling. word of mouth can be very persuasive - as you can see from the responses here. you become a reputable breeder from good business practices and selling healthy, stable reptiles. non of which you have learned.

you can let me know through these posts what you wish to do to make this right.

 

[Ryan67stang]

Beth you received a two month old chameleon you saw the pics of them before you bought them you knew what you were receving and you did receve it your not getting any refund

 

[FLLDIVER]

Beth I am really sorry your not happy but I did everythng I can to make you happy you act like I never offered a return.
*** I ACT THAT WAY BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T OFFER A RETURN, REFUND OR EVEN PARTIAL REFUND - AFTER I RECVD THEM.

shipping a chameleon at any age is stressful but I don't fell if the 2 months or 2 years it much difference at 2 months they can handel it just as much as 2 year old ones.
*** THEN YOU SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING IF THIS IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE

if there still alive I will still refund your money and if they arn't give me a call and we can work something out but your not going to get a full refund, I never guaranteed them to be healthy for any amount of time,
***THEY ARE NOT ALIVE - WHICH IS IT YOU WILL WORK SOMETHING OUT OR YOU WON'T ? YOU'RE CONFUSED AGAIN ! OK, SHIP ME THE SEXED PAIR OF 3 MONTH OLDS. WHICH SHOULD PUT THEM CLOSE TO 3-4"STV ... HEY THAT SOUND LIKE WHAT I PAID FOR TO BEGIN WITH.

this chameleon in the pic is about the same size as the ones beth received. I gave her the two biggest ones in the clutch this one was about 2.5" when I sold them to her and hers were 3". I couldn't get the tail to be straight but if you see it you can tell the chameleon pictured is 3.25"
***YOU SAID YOU JUST TOOK THE PIC AND IT'S 3.25". IF THE BIGGEST WERE 2.5" - HOW DID YOU SHIP ME 3" ? RYAN THE PICS I TOOK PLAINLY SHOW THEY ARE NOT EVEN 2" LONG INCLUDING THE TAIL.

everyone wants something for nothing but it just doesn't happen.*** NO RYAN, I JUST WANT WHAT I PAID FOR - A SEXED PAIR OF 3 MONTH OLD NOSEY BE PANTHERS, THAT ARE 3-4" LONG STV AND HEALTHY !! THAT'S WHAT YOU ADVERTISED AND WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHIPPED.

 

[FLLDIVER]

I am not taking sides but just to let you know I am in Mi also.

Beth, You do realize that when a baby panther is born it is only about 1/2 to 3/4 of a inch long from snout to vent ? and at about 2 months old they are about 1 1/2 to 2 inches long.

JIM ..... please explain this to ryan. i already know this and so does everyone else.

take another look at the pics of what i recvd ...what i received the bodies are barely 1" stv. which would put them at maybe 2 weeks old right , even according to your own calculations above? that's what i recvd - 2-3 week old babies. not what ryan claims in his ads that they are 3 month olds.

thanks for proving my point again.

beth

 

[Ryan67stang]

Beth my phone still hasn't rang. Are you afraid to call?

Im not going to fight with you any longer on here. I still haven't seen any pics of the dead chameleons. You can talk to my parents evenif you don't want to talk to me they will tell you the same thing they hatched from april 13-20.

are you saying you thought you were getting 3"-4"svt I told you in one of are first emails that was with there tails I even told you that on the phone



Hi yes im sure there pure breed nose bes. they are 3" from the nose to the end of the tail I going to a show in a few weeks and will sell the all for 200 each so $300 for two is the final offer. because of the heat I probly can't ship them untill monday anyway. let me know if your interested but 260 isn't even a thinkable offer. have you checked to see how much people are selling them for. this is a great deal at 300. Thanks RYan

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 3:17 PM
Subject: Fwd: nosey be


WITH THE BE'S THIS YOUNG, CAN YOU SEX THEM TO BE EXACT THAT I WOULD GET FEMALES ? PLEASE LET ME KNOW.... ALSO, ARE THEY ALL FROM THE SAME PARENTS ?

THANKS
BETH





----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 6:49 PM
Subject: SHIPPING


RYAN,

CAN YOU HOLD OFF ON SHIPPING UNTIL TUESDAY ... I WANT TO DECIDE ON TAKING ANOTHER FEMALE.

IF YOU WOULD DO THE 3 .....1.2 FOR $375 INC SHIPPING, I'LL SEND YOU ANOTHER $75. BUT I WOULD WANT ONE OF THE FEMALES TO BE FROM ANOTHER BLOODLINE.

THAT WOULD BE $115 EACH PLUS $30 FOR SHIPPING

PLEASE LET ME KNOW .... IF YOU WILL DO THAT I WILL SEND THE $75 TONIGHT AND YOU COULD SHIP TMRW ....

THANKS
BETH

you want something for nothing and your trying to reck my reputation to get it what kind of a person are you.

 

[FLLDIVER]

oh ryan ... you really don't get it. i did pay you $300 for a sexed pair of 3 month old panthers. so i agreed upon your price obviously, otherwise i would not have sent you the money. i also sent you an additional $100 for another female that you told me you had to sell, then could not produce. yes, you refunded me the $100. congratulations !!

but for the $300 i sent you, i expected to get 3 month old panthers - not 2-3 week olds, which is what you sent.

you also advertised them for a lower price of $125 after i paid you and you still would not refund the difference on that.

you state now that "they hatched from april 13-20", maybe you had some others born on these dates, but it was not what you shipped me.

did you forget about the email you sent me the day i recvd them when i realized how tiny they were ? - i guess so, here it is ...

Date: 7/17/2003 12:30:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)
Hi beth They were born about june 13-16. how are they doing? don't forget to spray them heavely. Thanks Ryan

ryan, the entire point is - you did not ship me what you were supposed to per our agreement for payment. i held up my end by paying you - you failed on your end by not producing what you should have sent.

the above email dated 7/13 doesn't prove anything except that they should have been that much older - not younger. what you shipped was very tiny ... take another look at the pics for a reminder.

i have no need to call you - i can handle this in writing through these posts or email. i have nothing new to say to you - you screwed up - plain and simple.

if you have panthers that were born april 13-20, then that is what you should be sending me to make this right. remember a sexed pair for $300 for 3 month olds. they would fall right into that catagory.

 

[FLLDIVER]

ryan you have destroyed your own reputation - you did not need any help ....

 

[kingmike]

Wow, Ryan, you said they were born April 13-20 Then in your email you said June 13-16. You messed up man, Make it right and move on. Just admit what happened and make it right, you will be much better off.

 

[Wilomn]

ryan, you have obviously LIED several times here. Just make it right and either send Beth the lizards she was supposed to get or refund her money. You are in the wrong here.

Does no one's parents teach them right from wrong anymore. You are STEALING from this girl. You are LIEING to everyone who reads this thread. Send me your number I'd like to talk to your parents. Email it to me.

Wes Pollock

 

[Wilomn]

I just got off the phone with ryan's dad. He did not know of any of these goings on between ryan and Beth. He did say that he was pretty sure though not positive that ryan did not have any hatchlings until May. He is not positive on that though. ryan is 20 years old but definately old enough to know better than to do what he has.

I pointed his dad, who certainly seemed like a reasonable fellow, to this site and this thread. He said he would check it out and also have a talk with ryan about what has happened.

OK, ryan, now I've talked to your dad and it seems you will be too. Time to make it right with Beth.

Wes Pollock

 

[Wilomn]

ryan,

I'm waiting to hear what you and your dad came up with. Did he talk to you? Did you tell him what you've told us? Did he believe it? What are you going to do about Beth's problem? Make this right now and save the possibility that someone reading this will give you a chance in the future. So far you are not coming out well on this at all.

Wes Pollock

 

[FLLDIVER]

i haven't heard a word from ryan ... not by phone, email or any other means ....

i will wait until tuesday to file in Michigan .... giving him monday to post here whether or not he is going to take care of this properly.

ryan - since you state that you actually have 3 month old nosey be panthers - and that you can sex them at 2 weeks old - picking out 1m/1f should be a breeze for you at 3 months old .... which is what should have been shipped to begin with.

will wait for your response on monday........

beth