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Savannah Monitor Handling Help

Dfasano56

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I just bought a baby savannah monitor the other day and i was wondering how do i go about interacting with him so in the future he becomes "tame". I understand that you can never really TAME a monitor but i want him to be used to being handled without biting or tail whipping. I have been reading online from various different sites on handling them and i am getting mixed answers. Some sites (and pet store owners) say the only way to get them used to being handled is by obviously handling them often, but other sites say that forced handling will result in stressing your monitor and could cause illness or death. When i try to handle my little baby he runs into his hide like i expect him to do but in order for me to handle him i have to go into his hide and force handle him. I just need some advice from experienced savannah monitor keepers on the proper way to get my sav used to being handled.
 
I'd like to start of by saying I'm a scientist - not a hobbyist. I don't anthropomorphize my pets/specimens.

The short answer is? They're both right. Can you tame a savannah by simply luring it to you over time, using the wild animal approach? Yes, absolutely but it takes a lot of time, and even very small mistakes can prolong the process, or ruin it entirely.

Can you tame a savannah monitor simply by forcehandling it? Again, absolutely. I have two savannah monitors, and both have become hand time via forcehandling. (One is 17" STL, the other is just shy of 4' total length, both are (believed to be) females)

The problems that sources like savannahmonitor.org claim to have with the forcehandling approach, i.e. that it makes them stop eating, seems to be some insane 1/1000 anomaly. I have dozens of friends and colleagues that have owned a variety of varanids and crocodylians, and I have never once had any of them give me a first or even second-hand account of forcehandling stressing a monitor to death. One of my friends has a 3 and a half foot long male with a bullet hole that passed through the rib cage, entering next to the spine just posterior to the left scapula, and exiting under the armpit on the right side. It eats fine, although it has a very slow gait for a varanid. My point is, these creatures are extremely durable, and have an intensely strong will to live. If one does go off of food, it is likely because of extraordinarily poor husbandry, disease, or parasites. I have only had my monitors turn down food once, and that was when I experimented with freeze dried insects.

Now. I personally have only dealt with animals that weren't excessively defensive when I acquired them. Talking to my friends, colleagues, and professors, I have identified 5 basic types of Varanid personalities.

1. The Sycophant: These are the rarest types, these are the ones that genuinely seem to crave human attention, and threat displays are extraordinarily rare. The taming is basically done for you, and they're basically very large bearded dragons.

2. The Cool Kid: When presented with forcehandling, they will basically sit there and let it happen. If they are closing their eyes, it is because they are scared, and actually The Coward which I will describe later. An animal lying still in your hands or on your lap, with its eyes open and looking around is of this type.

3. The Coward: These view escape as their only viable option. They will play dead, or run away, but will rarely if ever hiss, and probably never bite outside of a feeding time mishap. My eldest monitor is/was of this variety. This sounds like what you have, and I assure you that forcehandling is fine.

4. The Bully: Similar to the coward, they will rarely if ever bite, but they will do everything in their power to make you think they will. They will hiss, and tail lash, and puff up, and do everything else to generate a threat display. They are however, bluffing and won't likely follow through. My second monitor was of this variety, and she is doing fine. She did finally bite me once and got a mouthful of vinegar: She has not done it since, and has finally started behaving properly. She takes food, is active, and no longer generates a threat display.

5. The asshole: These are the nightmares of the varanid community. Usually adult or juvenile males that were wild caught and mistreated, they will bite and scratch and tail whip and hiss and shit all over you at every opportunity. Forcehandling IS THE ONLY OPTION in this case, but you need to take special precautions. I helped take care of a friend's monitor that had this disposition, and I can give you a few tips. The obvious ones are to wear gloves. They want you to leave them alone, and they think that biting and stuff will make you do so. If it works, you're training them to be assholes and you need to stop it. I designed a special way of making biting particularly unpleasant: I wear too sets of gloves. The outer glove is a standard gardening glove, and underneath that I wear a knit one-size-fits-all glove absolutely soaked in vinegar. The vinegar won't soak through on its own, but once the savannah monitor clamps down it forces small amounts of the liquid through and into its mouth, and the taste causes them to release. These monitors are a challenge, but it is a challenge that can be overcome with persistence and a small degree of bravery.
 
I applaud you for that post thank you, my little sav is of the asshole type haha but hes only like 8 inches and ive only handled him (force handled) and he was biting, hissing, tail whipping, puffing up and shit on my hand but after like 3 minutes of her temper tantrum she kinda just sat in my hand puffing and breathing hard...so im just gonna try and handle her often and hopefully she turns out to be a sweetheart
 
Well. Some herps can and will stress to death after capture with lots of forcehandling, or just flat out be injured by handling, such as some chameleons, some skinks, and whiptail lizards.

Never heard of it happening to a monitor. Hm. Well, it gets stated fairly often but I don't think it can be understated that they calm down a lot with age too. I'd consider it routine for him/her to be at least a little bit defensive until 12-15 inches. My first sav wasn't entirely comfortable with me until about that size.

If you're feeding him/her live prey, use tongs if possible. If they won't take crickets that way, they should take earthworms and mealworms. At 8 inches he/she could probably take fuzzies as well.

You'll get a lot of people telling you not to feed mice as they make savs fat, or fur causes impactions. Again this is a simple case of "based on what"? There was a study done a few years back analyzing the droppings of young savannah monitors in Senegal and Ghana showing that they dined mostly on invertebrates. The issue here is that young savannah monitors are ultimately too small to eat much else... and again, hobbyists hear one study and their entire paradigm shifts. Ignore them, Savannahs have been relatively common pets for years now, mice were the staple for most of that, and they have always done just fine. I heard a (Hilariously unfounded) claim recently that fur can cause impactions. I my first sav managed to swallow a (rather large) wood chip along with some earthworms I was feeding. She was fine, it didn't even delay her usual defecation schedule.

The key is simply temperature, cage layout, and a balanced diet. Feel free to make anything the staple, but make sure to mix it up. Over the course of the week, my younger sav will get a mix of mice, worms, crickets, roaches, fish, and usually 1-2 shrimp. If you have access to snails more power to you.

Feed about the same time every day, and at that age, I MEAN every day, and enter the room with tongs so she knows that's feeding time. Leave him/her alone around this time the last thing you need is to kick his/her defensiveness, only to develop food aggression.
 
Could you please post the peer reviewed articles in which the varanid personality types are defined? And if the original articles (or series) didn't describe it, could you provide the citations for the articles in which the approximate frequency of each personality type was established? Do the types apply to other groups of reptiles, or just varanids? I'm surprised to hear that the field has had so much progress since my last brain/behavior seminars. Of course, my professors did primarily focus on mammals.
 
The "personality type" descriptors were purely my own observations, and those of others I've known who have had experience with varanids. They weren't intended to be considered hard science anymore than (in my opinion) personality types should be considered in humans.
 
Force handling any monitor lizard is absoulutly the worst thing you can do to your animal. Its going backwards in the taming process.
Your not building any trust or partnership that way, you are simply dominating the animal into submission, after all what other choice does the poor lizard have, but to submit.
This is common sense.
 
So how are you supposed to get your monitor used to being handled when it is young so it doesnt grow into a 4 foot terror?
 
People train/tame other animals with shock collars, choke chains, electric prods, violence delivered in the form of swats from periodicals, and verbal aggression...

And yet herp HOBBYISTS seem to believe that handling a reptile against its will somehow instantly transforms it into a resentful, and tortured slave anxiously plotting revenge.

I have multiple friends and colleagues who have reptiles of various size, including one particular acquaintance who works with V. komodoensis at the Henry Doorly Zoo in Omaha, NE. Not a single one will unequivocally state there is no place for force handling, and many of them will advocate it as the preferred method.
 
Patience, keeper know how, being able to read your monitor through body language and food.

You need to start over again and go back to basics, any type of rapport you had with your monitor is completely ruined by violating some of the most important things to it at this paticular time, its security and trust.

Id start by rearranging the cage decorations and add a few more hides,
just feed, water and maintain, no handling the monitor right now,
Do maintenance when the lizard is in a hide or cooler in the morning,
Get him into a routine, but hands off.

Most importantly.....
1) Dont chase it around the cage anymore.
2) Dont grab it and restrain it anymore.
3) And for goodness sake NEVER pull a monitor lizard out of its security hide. Its not a hide anymore, its a trap.
 
well since i started force handling her, she has became less violent in terms of when i pick her up she doesnt bite me anymore, she just shits and puffs up and actually yesterday when i handled her she didnt shit which is a good sign to me haha. Since i started force handling her when i enter the room she used to immediately run into her hide but now she seems more comfortable with me and she just kind of keeps her eye on me until I leave the room.
 
That's exactly what one could expect - When they realize biting doesn't get them what they want, they stop doing it. Over time they tend to learn to like or at least tolerate human interaction. My monitors like to be scratched, especially along the side of their neck, and especially when shedding.
 
I have to chime in here.

You can tame a monitor both ways, but they will lead to two different end results.

Slowly building trust with the monitor by feeding and allowing the monitor to have it's space and come to you on it's own terms is the best method in my opinion. They will eventually recognize you as something pleasant that will not harm them and become your "friend". This is extremely rewarding when you have a monitor that is confident and wants to be around you. This method takes months of hard work and resisting temptation to just grab the little guy and force them out. They will come to you and actually enjoy coming out with you.

The second way is forceful handleing. The end result of this is a tame lizard that has basically given up and submitted. They realize there is nothing they can do so they just stop fighting you. It's actually a pretty sad situation if you ask me. You can compare it to an abused person. Eventually that abused person just does what you want them to do because there is nothing else they can do about it. Overtime ifthey are kept in this same situation this will become the norm, but you will never get that rewarding friendship and personality that you would if the monitor was allowed to grow comfortable with you over time.

Monitors are smart lizards with personality. Do not rob the personality out of them.
 
FORCE HANDLING

Thanks MATTSC91 for the post WELL SAID. I have a Sumatran water Monitor and a black throat. My black throat took me over two years to get him to except me without stressing out. He’s still aggressive and stressed when approached (being a monitor) and will still tail whack you but good. But I never felt he would bite. Now when he goes to the vet he tries to bite his hand and face the whole time he is there. When he hands him to me he calms down once he licks my hand (the care giver).

My water monitor will simply go wild when approached and regurgitate his meal and not eat for a few days when held (being a water monitor). I’m currently going through that now. I move them out while I’m building their new zoo cages and he went nuts when I caught him. I believe I set myself back but I had no choice the off gas from the fiberglassing was just too much. I may never have the same interaction as I do with the Black throat but I do not care. My resarch leaves me some hope with him as he matures they seem to settle down but we will see. I would rather he be healthy and happy and if he can't be held without to much stress so be it.

I do not try to place human emotion to my animals but I try to understand them for what they are a reptile and a predator with unique needs. Being in Alaska I have my challenges. When I first entered this site I was told I would kill them because I had no experience with monitors. I would say they were right to a point, but common sense and research has always been my approach. I studied both species for over a year reading everything I could get my hands on but it was and still is a work in progress.
 
We have this...

I'd like to start of by saying I'm a scientist - not a hobbyist. I don't anthropomorphize my pets/specimens.

...and then this.

I personally have only dealt with animals that weren't excessively defensive when I acquired them. Talking to my friends, colleagues, and professors, I have identified 5 basic types of Varanid personalities.

1. The Sycophant

2. The Cool Kid

3. The Coward

4. The Bully

5. The Asshole

Where can I pick up the latest revision of the DSM - VE (Varanid Edition)?

In all seriousness, while I appreciate that Matt is attempting to be helpful, the advice given by him is terrible. Most of the "personalities" defined are, in actuality, external signs of monitors already exhibiting a high degree of stress in different stages rather than displays of individual temperament.

Reward-based training coupled with trust development (the former being a major means of achieving the latter) is not only absolutely critical but also mutually beneficial to both keeper and captive. Because it requires patience and proper husbandry practices - another lengthy subject matter entirely and extensive given the general lack of knowledge within the Varanid community - in order to succeed, few of the monitors imported and sold annually ever reach their potential as rewarding "pets/specimens". It does not take much crunching of the numbers for one to realize that very few of these creatures do not languish in captivity and perish before their first year of life is complete, so it is little wonder that what we humans in all our knowledge frequently view and identify survival behaviors as problem behaviors.

We must begin by improving husbandry and captive conditions for Varanus spp. as a whole. Then and only then will more of these fascinating lizards begin to thrive rather than merely survive or simply expire well before a small fraction of their natural lifespans has been reached. Improve environment and improve behavior. This is the point at which the keeper can begin the reward-based positive training process, and bonding based on trust will bud, blossom, and flourish.
 
I have to agree with Edwardo, rai10861, and Quantum Varanics. Monitors are extrememly intelligent animals; with that being said force-handling is the last method I would go with. When I first got my Savannah Monitor, I was in the same boat. He was scared, and would not tolerate any form of interaction with me. I never force handled him, and overtime he learned that I = food. That gave him a positive outlook on me, and he became much more tolerant of my presence (not running away as soon as I went in the room, even allowing me to pet him). Varanids in general require patience, and are not going to be friendly right off of the bat. However, it's a challenge that I love; if I wawnted something easy, I could have gotten a Bearded Dragon.
 
Reward-based training coupled with trust development (the former being a major means of achieving the latter) is not only absolutely critical but also mutually beneficial to both keeper and captive. Because it requires patience and proper husbandry practices - another lengthy subject matter entirely and extensive given the general lack of knowledge within the Varanid community - in order to succeed, few of the monitors imported and sold annually ever reach their potential as rewarding "pets/specimens". It does not take much crunching of the numbers for one to realize that very few of these creatures do not languish in captivity and perish before their first year of life is complete, so it is little wonder that what we humans in all our knowledge frequently view and identify survival behaviors as problem behaviors.

We must begin by improving husbandry and captive conditions for Varanus spp. as a whole. Then and only then will more of these fascinating lizards begin to thrive rather than merely survive or simply expire well before a small fraction of their natural lifespans has been reached. Improve environment and improve behavior. This is the point at which the keeper can begin the reward-based positive training process, and bonding based on trust will bud, blossom, and flourish.

Thats about the best general overview and information on keeping monitor lizards in captivity that I have ever read, so well said.
 
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