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Bad Guy Scammer salmondu

Fraud- Deceit, trickery, sharp practice, or breach of confidence, perpetrated for profit or to gain some unfair or dishonest advantage. Example- a misrepresented photograph.

Scam- A fraudulent business scheme; a swindle.

Scammer- A person who perpetrates a scam; swindler.
 
In the 40 years that I have collected turtles I have never seen a reduction in population then again I have collected the baby's and left the adults so the baby's will be there the next year.In regard,s to snappers there are 10s of millions across the us so a 300 adult take per year per person in one state would not have a adverse affect on them.Instead of using scientific fact these biologist which are against the trade in anything use there clout to get things past without a proper study which most states require,But somehow gets circumvented and the Herpers get the wrong in of the stick.
 
I apologize for going off topic with this post, but I can't ignore the ignorance of the previous statement.

Proper studies? They've been done. The links on the following website are all peer-reviewed, repeatable, and backed up with relevant statistical analysis. These are not opinion pieces; they are a consortium of facts by some of the most prestigious conservation and scientific organizations in the world: mhttp://nytts.org/asianturtlecrisis.html

National Wildlife Federation: http://www.nwf.org/news-and-magazin...imals/archives/2006/asias-turtle-tragedy.aspx

"High adult survival elasticity [adults live a long time] and low fecundity elasticity [but produce relatively few young] in these species suggests that conservation efforts that reduce mortality of adults are likely to stabilize declining populations [we need to slow the killing of adult turtles to allow species to recover]." http://www.fescue.colostate.edu/current/Summer Events/Summer 2010/Heppel_98.pdf

Finally, the actual worldwide conservation plan for turtles: http://www.turtleconservationfund.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/tcf_action_plan.pdf

If you think the Asian Turtle Crisis won't hit here, think again. The West African black rhino was just declared extinct last week, despite being half a world away from the Asian markets that lusted its horns (http://earthfirstnews.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/western-black-rhino-declared-extinct/). State and Federal governments are working together to protect our turtles from a very, very real threat. We tried hunting wildlife for food and furs in the United States with no regulation back in the 1800s... it didn't end well for us (http://cnr.ncsu.edu/fer/about/directory/documents/Article-HistoryofWildlifeResearch.pdf), and it's still not working elsewhere in the world today (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1523-1739.1995.951107.x/abstract). Labrador duck, great auk, passenger pigeon, Carolina parakeet, heath hen and many more species went extinct in North America due to human over consumption.

Show me scientific information that contradicts the above documents, and then your opinion may be valid.
 
Unauthorized use, copyright infringement, etc., etc. Whatever the case may be. My point is, apparently, being missed.
I was speaking of intent to scam customer/s. Honesty, in that the depicted animal is not the one for sale (or does not belong to them), vs. stating that the depicted animal is the exact one for sale. Having something for sale, showing a photo as an example, and sending a specimen of that species vs. not sending anything after receiving payment (and never having had the intent to send anything). Could keep going with examples.
While there may, certainly, be an infringement, unauthorized use, monetary gain via commercial use of photo (which is legally actionable), etc., it does not mean that every person (subject person, of this thread aside), who uses another creator's/owner's photo (which is wrong in, and of, itself), has/had every intent to rob, or "bait & switch", their customer. That is all I meant.
Guess this will be the last post, on this specific matter (in this thread), for me. Either it is understood or it is not.:)
 
snowgyre, you are absolutely right about the harvesting animals leading to crisis and extinction.

Mike (the M); I am unfamiliar with the collection laws of GA; I know the laws here in CA. It is unfortunate that some states allow for the collection of sooooo many animals per person. It is an issue of morality and obviously salmondu's moral compass does not point north.

Reptilemania: eventually the Asian market's demand will drive the price up, leading to more collectors in more states, leading to reductions in the populations that further inflate the price, and so on, until they are endangered and collecting becomes illegal; that is when smuggling begins due to the price skyrocketing.
I am glad you have collected young turtles and left the breeders.
The conservation of adult breeding animals is critical to their survival, especially animals that take a long time to mature.

The most responsible way to get turtles for meat is to farm them imho, although I personally will never eat turtle.
 
thought Id keep myself out of this but... Kudos to snowgyre! Awesome research! great post... supply and demand... would like to see how millions of common snappers are doing when they hit $300 each, $400 each, $1000 each... many may say it wont happen, maybe it wont. but snowgyre brought up some really good points. Also, Jon, great point! why not make it more profitable for everyone.. LONG TERM. if there is demand for something. FARM IT. turn it into profit that can roll over and over and over... If there are sustainable farms.. you'll never have to field harvest turtles for meat for foreign countries again.

thanks
 
:iagree::iagree::iagree:

kanozig said:
thought Id keep myself out of this but... Kudos to snowgyre! Awesome research! great post... supply and demand... would like to see how millions of common snappers are doing when they hit $300 each, $400 each, $1000 each... many may say it wont happen, maybe it wont. but snowgyre brought up some really good points. Also, Jon, great point! why not make it more profitable for everyone.. LONG TERM. if there is demand for something. FARM IT. turn it into profit that can roll over and over and over... If there are sustainable farms.. you'll never have to field harvest turtles for meat for foreign countries again.

thanks
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This is so far off topic of the actual person in question, but it's interesting.

The difference between snapping turtles and say, wood turtles, spotteds, or box turtles (species which are in decline) wis, much like the soft shells they farm over in China, they are so prolific and grow quickly, that should populations ever get to the point where they're impacted by harvest, it's a resilient species.

I encountered nine females in 5 miles radius one week last nesting season (and saw plenty more predated nests). For the fun of it, I excavated a few to do a hatch and release, two of those four were 50 - 60 eggs large. Over four nests, I hatched 180 some odd snapping turtles.

You want to know the funny part? In my state, it's legal to harvest snapping turtle eggs for food. :confused:

The point is, even if snapping turtles did come under pressure, the right regulations would help see them return quickly.
 

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Those photos are disgusting, nauseating and unacceptable.

I don't care what the "laws" are. You don't rape, you don't slaughter, you don't harvest, you don't decimate wildlife for the all-mighty dollar. PERIOD.
 
LauraB said:
Those photos are disgusting, nauseating and unacceptable. PERIOD.
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I am not sure why you are saying that about those pictures. I do not see any problems with them, the guy simply took belly, side and head pictures of a large snapping yurtlr.

now I do agree with you and others with being strongly against collecting turtles or any animals for reselling. We as humans have destroyed so much of wildlife and cause so many species to bring them to extiction or near it.
 
I am not sure why you are saying that about those pictures. I do not see any problems with them, the guy simply took belly, side and head pictures of a large snapping yurtlr.
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Geez, NOW I see that and stand corrected (and red-faced!). I wasn't wearing my reading glasses last night, so my eyes definitely played tricks on me. My apologies.
 
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