• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Scientific America FAILS on Large Constrictor Article

Twizted Paths

New member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
1,322
Reaction score
123
Points
0
Location
Cleve., Ohio, USA
From the February 2010 Scientific American Magazine
Python Predation: Big snakes poised to change U.S. ecosystems
Pet constrictors released into the wild are adapting to areas beyond the Florida Everglades


By Michael Tennesen

Brought to the U.S. as pets, Burmese pythons have made headlines with their uncontrolled spread in the Florida Everglades and willingness to challenge alligators for the position of top predator. A report released by the U.S. Geological Survey last fall delivered more bad news: two other constrictor species, also former pets, are thriving in the area, and six others could pose similar threats. Researchers fear that reproductive populations could spread and eat native animals into extinction.

The new interlopers—northern and southern African pythons, reticulated pythons, boa constrictors and four species of anacondas—have “ecological similarities,” explains Robert Reed, a USGS biologist and one of the authors of the report. “They are large invasive predators that native birds and mammals aren’t adapted to, and they are highly fecund, capable of producing up to 100 hatchlings in one nest.” They’re also big; some grow up to 20 feet and 200 pounds. They seize prey with their teeth and then wrap around the prey’s body, squeezing it to death.

Biologists first noticed the slithering invasion in the late 1990s. Snake numbers have risen dramatically: in 2000 two Burmese pythons were captured in the Everglades National Park; in 2008 the number captured hit 343. Biologists believe that tens of thousands now live in the park. Other constrictors have begun appearing beyond the Everglades: boa constrictors south of Miami and African pythons just west of the city.

Cryptic by nature, constrictors are extremely difficult to capture. “We know how they move and what they look like,” says USGS biologist Kristen Hart. “We had a radio-tagged snake in a fenced-off area the other day, right in the middle of six of us, and yet we couldn’t even see it. They are often underground or underwater or in a tree. They blend in so well here in the Everglades.”

When they move, however, they can move far. Relocated pythons have demonstrated a homing ability, returning up to 48 miles to the place where they were captured. Biologists worry that the reptiles may populate the Florida Keys, perhaps by riding on floating logs or even swimming the distance.

Without native predators, the snakes could really thrive. In fact, Burmese pythons may do better in Florida than in their home ranges in Southeast Asia, where jackals, monitor lizards, disease and parasites limit their numbers. “By the time they reach two years of age, not much can eat them in the Everglades,” Hart states. She describes one python she captured that “threw up four feet of an alligator.” Although biologists have recovered 10 alligators in python stomachs, for the most part the constrictors prey on small mammals and birds.

This predilection concerns Dave Hallac, chief of biological resources for the Everglades and Dry Tortugas. “We are going through this comprehensive restoration program here in the Everglades, trying to restore a number of wading and water-dependent birds, yet at the same time we have this big new predator in our midst.” Hallac and others do not want a repeat of what happened on the American island of Guam. There the nonnative brown tree snake invaded shortly after World War II and devastated native wildlife. Since the snake’s arrival, most likely as stowaways on cargo vessels, Guam has lost 10 of its 12 native forest bird species, most of its bats and about half of its lizards.

Given the number of constrictors imported to the U.S. as pets—Reed pegs the figure at just under one million—some species appear poised to take up permanent residence. (Florida law stipulates jail terms up to one year for anyone releasing a pet constrictor, which can grow from a 20- inch-long juvenile to an eight-foot-long monster in a year.) Still, wildlife biologists hope to keep the invasion contained. Although much of the southern U.S. offers a hospitable climate, the availability of prey, habitat and other factors will affect the snakes’ success.Hart and others are working with different traps, transmitters and “Judas snakes”—radio-tagged pythons that lead them to other snakes—in an attempt to understand and control the creatures. She laments the fact that Florida didn’t take a more aggressive stance against these snakes years ago, when the reptiles were first sighted and might have been eradicated quickly. Says Hart: “We’ve gone beyond the point where they’re easily controllable.”

Note: This story was originally printed with the title "Python Boom"

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=python-boom


Isn't there any place that utilizes REAL science instead of regurging of politically driven pseudo science anymore?

This really pisses me off because I pay for & read this publication regularly. :angry:
 
Perhaps if Florida sped up the development of all buildable land (like it has in the past), then humans will simply crowd out any and all competing animal life. :rolleyes: I'm sure that this complete eradication of all natural habitat and subsequent increased traffic on the highways will certainly take care of this large constrictor problem in the state. Hell, alligators were almost eradicated until they became protected!

If they get as far as north Florida, every yahoo in a pickup truck will be out on the roads blasting them with shotguns. The bars will be filled with people telling of their exploits with each competing with tales of just how big the one was that THEY shot the other day.

Quite simply, the snakes don't have a chance in hell in Florida, much less anywhere else in the USA.
 
Four species of anacondas huh? It's my understanding that there is only three (one of which is rare and I haven't seen them in the trade) but what do I know? :shrug01:

There are four recognized species of Eunectes. Of course as always, taxonomy is debated. The fourth species, beniensis, was just described in 2002.
The point is irrelevant though, it just means there are two that you have never seen in the trade instead of just one lol.
Eunectes murinus
Eunectes beniensis
Eunectes deschauenseei
Eunectes notaeus

Still, the article is full of misconceptions and inaccurate statements. Any article quoting the USGS report as fact isn't worth the time it takes to read it. Sad to see it published in a so called respected publication.
 
There are four recognized species of Eunectes. Of course as always, taxonomy is debated. The fourth species, beniensis, was just described in 2002.
The point is irrelevant though, it just means there are two that you have never seen in the trade instead of just one lol.
Eunectes murinus
Eunectes beniensis
Eunectes deschauenseei
Eunectes notaeus

I was not aware of the beniensis but I haven't dealt with the bigger snakes since the later 90's. Guess you're never too old to learn something new.

Still, the article is full of misconceptions and inaccurate statements. Any article quoting the USGS report as fact isn't worth the time it takes to read it. Sad to see it published in a so called respected publication.

:iagree:
 
Thats why I was curious, I hadn't heard that and the one we have certainly isnt but he has been a problem child since we got him.
 
I was not aware of the beniensis but I haven't dealt with the bigger snakes since the later 90's. Guess you're never too old to learn something new.

I wasn't aware of it either lol. The conflicting statements just made me curious and I looked it up. I'm no anaconda expert :D
 
Just so you know, Scientific American is one of the best respected magazines out there. Honestly, there is nothing I see that's wrong with this article. I've spoken with biologists in Florida directly and the figures this article cites is the same as what I was told face to face.

It makes us lose credibility when we get defensive and immediately accuse these scientists and biologists of lying. These snakes were radio-tagged and tracked. Anyone who has ever radio tracked a snake (I have tracked Timber Rattlesnakes myself) can appreciate how well these animals blend in. For every animal you see, you have to assume that there are many, many more that you simple didn't spot. This is why biologists used mark-recapture and other techniques to estimate wildlife populations where we really can't realistically count all the animals directly. These are well-established, scientifically accepted, and are, like all science, methods that are repeatable and testable.

There is a problem in Florida. We have to acknowledge that. We're doing ourselves a disservice when we lost trust in our biologists and scientists just because they happen to discover something we don't like. The real question is whether or not these snakes will become problems elsewhere. Honestly? We don't know. But we're working to try to understand these snakes as we can so we can at least try and prevent invasion of other habitats by these animals and protect our native fauna at the same time.
 
They quoted the USGS report for the vast majority of their report. It has been denounced as unscientific & unfit to base legislation on.

I do know that the animals listed can not survive in my state. They can't even survive in my house without me jacking up the heat & running additional supplemental heat in each enclosure.

Just because Florida has a problem does not mean Ohio will. Boa constrictors have natural habitat thoughout Mexico, which is directly connected to the U.S., if they were going to spread they would have & it wouldn't even be an invasion.

If the problem in Florida was caused by irresponsible pet owners and these animals could spread so easily they wouldn't be confined to their current locations. They would be everywhere.

Furthermore, if they can survive across the entire country and their presence is caused by the release of animals by irresponsible owners then where are all the other wild populations? Do only people in Florida irresponsibly dump their animals?

If this is just about the problem of released pets taking over and decimating native species when are cats going to be banned? They truly do spread and survive everywhere and are very destructive to native small mammal & bird populations.

The fact that this is considered a respected publication is what pisses me off the most. They did no actual research, they merely regurged a political agenda.
 
I was told by a USARK representative that the non native species in florida was mostly due to a huge breeders warehouse chaulk full of captive animals being destroyed in a hurricane and releasing tons of burms and other species into the wild. Im not sure of the official USARK position on that but that is just what i was told when i brought the subject up.
 
The sad thing is that it doesn't take a rocket science to figure out that this is not the result of irresponsible pet owners as much as it was the hurricanes. Either way it doesn't matter, they do have a problem but it just isn't a national problem. It is state specific and should be treated as such unless someone can prove differently. Exotics have been imported for decades without a problem of snake colonies every where so it would seem obvious to anyone that the proof is just not out there. The snakes are not coming to the mexican border and turning around either. If they could survive further up then thats what would be happening and its just not.
 
Boa constrictors have natural habitat thoughout Mexico, which is directly connected to the U.S., if they were going to spread they would have & it wouldn't even be an invasion.

You logic unfortunately is not sound in that statement. There are ecological barriers that prevent the BC's from traveling from their native mexico to a climate friendly state like Florida.

You can chide irresponsible pet owners until you're blue in the face, but yet at the same time they are the bread and butter for the pet industry. The fact of the matter is, BC's excluded, that list represents snakes that VERY VERY VERY few people can adequately and safely keep for the lengths of their lives and zoo's can only take so many giant snakes.

Retics are beautiful, wonderful animals, yet I've seen first hand what a "tame" 100 lb retic can do to even the most careful owner.

There IS a problem with these snakes in Florida and a solution MUST be found. The proposed ban is a knee jerk reaction, true. Snakes are being singled out over other more ecologically harmful invasive species, true. Myself, I think there should be a hunting season for them. It would provide money to the state and help deal with the problem.
 
Now that I could live with. Wouldn't be crazy bout it but could live with it because I am not going to put my babies in harms way out there. Hunting has always been a way to eliminate overpopulations of critters such as deer in GA. You can participate if you want to and don't if you don't want to. MOney from licensing for hunting would still give the state what they are after, Money and help to eliminate the dangers of over population.
 
You logic unfortunately is not sound in that statement. There are ecological barriers that prevent the BC's from traveling from their native mexico to a climate friendly state like Florida.

My logic is indeed sound & in your attempt to argue it you just agreed with it.

You can chide irresponsible pet owners until you're blue in the face

I suggest you try rereading my post.

There IS a problem with these snakes in Florida and a solution MUST be found. The proposed ban is a knee jerk reaction, true. Snakes are being singled out over other more ecologically harmful invasive species, true. Myself, I think there should be a hunting season for them. It would provide money to the state and help deal with the problem.

I have bolded the key component in this whole ban fiasco. It is a Florida problem and should be dealt with in Florida by Florida lawmakers as intended by our seemingly non existent tenth amendment.

This is not a knee jerk reaction, this is a well thought out campaign using the animals least likely to encourage large public outcry as the poster child to keep/increase federal funding for the restoration. Johnathan Brady wrote a good post on the circular spending going on with this, I'll try to find the link tomorrow.
 
No...there's an ecological barrier for BC's between climate suitable southwest Texas and Florida called Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia...all of which have climates that get too cold in the winter for BCI's.
 
No...there's an ecological barrier for BC's between climate suitable southwest Texas and Florida called Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia...all of which have climates that get too cold in the winter for BCI's.

Exactly my point again.

I realize there's a lot of different legislation muddling their way through right now so I'll clarify.

This thread and article concern the Federal Ban & Proposed Lacey Act amendment of the animals on Florida's ROC listing that would affect our entire Nation.

This is Not about the proposed ban that faces Florida Alone and Separately.

I am not debating this from the standpoint of how this concerns Florida but how it affect's the rest of the Nation. Florida needs to do what Florida needs to do in order to protect it's own unique environment. However the rest of this country does not share Florida's environment so what is a legitimate environmental concern in the Everglades does not, in this case, apply across the board.

We'll take gerbils as an example this time (before everybody thinks I totally hate cats :rolleyes: )

Gerbils are illegal in California because if they got loose the could easily establish wild populations and disrupt California's ecosystem. Following the tenth amendment & proper use of the Lacey Act this does not affect any other state because the issue is California's.

There are also state specific laws banning Quaker parrots due to their ability to establish flourishing wild populations (evidenced in NYC I believe).

The issue of an pet ownership, as with any proposed legislation, needs to be handled on the lowest appropriate governmental level following the proper legal procedures as was set forth by our founding fathers. This is not happening with our snakes.
 
Dang, I learn something new on here every day. I had no idea that Gerbils were illegal in CA. I could see them establishing colonies in alot of areas, certainly more so than these snakes. We certainly dont have gerbils on the Lacey Act.
 
Back
Top