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Seeing red

hhmoore

hhmoore

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These two are already showing pretty good potential. Keeping my fingers crossed.
This is the female
 

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And the male
 

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The male is a Kingsville, I believe the parents were directly from John Ginter. (Jim can confirm/deny that when he gets here).
The female - well, to be honest, I thought I had inquired, but I can't even find an email indicating I did...so I sent one off. I will include that info here as soon as I find out for sure. I purchased her from Don Soderberg.
 
hhmoore said:
The male is a Kingsville, I believe the parents were directly from John Ginter. (Jim can confirm/deny that when he gets here).
The female - well, to be honest, I thought I had inquired, but I can't even find an email indicating I did...so I sent one off. I will include that info here as soon as I find out for sure. I purchased her from Don Soderberg.
Click to expand...

The female is ALMOST DEFINITELY a Crumbly if you got it from Don. THANKS for clearing that up...that is EXACTLY why I resorted to guessing. The female had a blotch pattern like a Crumbly (which is not really seen in Kingsville's), but the male had the coloration of a Kingsville (which is uncommon in Crumbly reds). The male's pattern could go either way, but it definitely looked Kingsville based on that color!

I justed ASS-U-ME'd they were a matched pair, and I was confused by what I was seeing in that pair. THAT'S MY FAULT. Anyway, when I go out to the snake room, I'll snap an image of what is probably a slightly older sibling to that one from Don and tell you a funny story about it........

KJ
 
I thought it was a Crumbly..but for some reason I couldn't find anything confirming it (and I haven't had much exposure to reds, so I couldn't have guessed based on appearance).
 
Check out this image of a female "improved" Crumbly line. She's 2 years old, and I just "took" her from Don. Don and I have been selectively breeding on Crumbly reds for 3 generations now. We started with a pair of Crumbly reds produced by Scott. I got them from a friend who acquired them from Crumbly by putting a deposit down a year in advance so that he could get the best pair.

OBVIOUSLY, not all of the ones from our line turn out this red. Don still has my original breeders at his place, plus some of his own produced by those original breeders, and at least one I have some type of ownership concern in.

Anyway, the attached image is of one of those that Don actually owns now, but I took on loan to breed back to a male I own next year that is better than my original male. I have one that is likely going to exceed the original male, but Don hasn't gotten a male quite as good as our founder yet.

Anyway, funny story on this female. She surprised up. 2 years ago, I grabbed the best 2 or 3 from the clutch. Don grabbed the best couple, and then we sold the rest. Well, we sold all of the rest EXCEPT this girl. She had NO signs of looking like she'd be a red. She was yellow, plain, and "ugly." Period. I would have sold her to a wholesaler as a normal and never blinked an eye. I certainly wouldn't have sold her as a red. She was that bad looking (as far as "reds" go, anyway).

Well, THANKS TO EVERYONE for not buying the ugly one....lol. :D She grew in to one of the really red ones. It surprised the heck out of us! There's a funny curve ball for you, eh?

KJ
 

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By the way, she's not even 2 years old yet (and a little small for her size since we was never pushed for breeding), so she should continue to get more red between now and next spring when I breed her.
 
KJUN said:
By the way, she's not even 2 years old yet (and a little small for her size since we was never pushed for breeding), so she should continue to get more red between now and next spring when I breed her.
Click to expand...


oh man.... i WANT that snake!!!! LOVELY!
 
hhmoore said:
The male is a Kingsville, I believe the parents were directly from John Ginter. (Jim can confirm/deny that when he gets here).
The female - well, to be honest, I thought I had inquired, but I can't even find an email indicating I did...so I sent one off. I will include that info here as soon as I find out for sure. I purchased her from Don Soderberg.
Click to expand...


Harald...Yes, he would be from Ginter stock.

Thanks Again ....ENJOY :thumbsup:
 
Thanks, Jim.

KJ - Don says that he was told it is a cross between the two. He got a kick out of the fact that you were asking about it, since you "own these snakes", lol.
Thanks again for all your help.

**Don sent me another email - she's pure Crumbly**
 
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hhmoore said:
**Don sent me another email - she's pure Crumbly**
Click to expand...

Yep. Don was a little confused. The founders are both out of Crumbly's original pair. He knows I have both lines, so I think I confused him for a while......and currently own NO Crumbly x Ginter crosses. I've had them before, and they were less than exciting. I'm going to try again SOON with MUCH better parental stock this time around. :)

Enjoy them!
KJ
 
What is an "improved Crumbly"?
I think I saw it on your website, but I forgot...and there might be some other people wondering.
(I'm asking for them, as I am on my way to your website to check :bolt01: )
 
hhmoore said:
What is an "improved Crumbly"?
Click to expand...

Some wholesalers sell "Crumbly" reds for $50/each that may be from the Crumbly (if only in part), but they are CERTAINLY not red as adults. Most of my breeders look in the neighborhood of those ones on my website. I got tired of trying to politely explain to beginners why mine are more than those $50 ones being sold by some wholesale buyers/resellers. PLUS, Crumbly only bred those adult red bulls for a few years. He put together an awesome pair (one of the best lines originated from that pair!), bred them, and sold them down the road. He never really selectively improved upon his line beyond the original acquisitions. We acquired some of Crumbly's best, and I have tried keeping the best for breeding for a couple of generations now.

I'm not sure "Crumbly" is the best name to describe this line any more, but is IS one people recognize. That pleases me. I have just been toying with WHAT to call them...and I have probably less than a year to decide before I have to put something in print.....lol. I probably won't stick with "Improved Reds," but I doubt I'll just group them with the same old Crumbly reds by not noting the differences.

If you could ID which ones would turn out red as neonates, some "tag" like this would be unnecessary. :(

KJ
 
Mooing Tricycle said:
I was thinking stillwater personally... But, im not real sure.

Either way, whatever he is, or a mutt, I love to gloat about him, hes just such a pretty snake!!
Click to expand...

I'd call that a regular/Colorado Hypo. ...pretty sure it isn't a Stillwater.

THAT look in a bullsnake is why I like the original hypos better than Stillwater Hypos (my personal opinion)....and why I breed regular hypos, but I haven't bothered to devote cage space to a Stillwater in YEARS. I may in ~2 years, but that's another little story....

Whatever it is, it is a GOOD looking snake. Congrats.
KJ
 
KJUN said:
I'd call that a regular/Colorado Hypo. ...pretty sure it isn't a Stillwater.

THAT look in a bullsnake is why I like the original hypos better than Stillwater Hypos (my personal opinion)....and why I breed regular hypos, but I haven't bothered to devote cage space to a Stillwater in YEARS. I may in ~2 years, but that's another little story....

Whatever it is, it is a GOOD looking snake. Congrats.
KJ
Click to expand...


Alright Cool :) I really appreciate the info!

Thanks for the compliments too! Now... i dont want to steal haralds thread! But do keep posting lovely pictures! I truly dont know why MORE people dont keep these snakes! they are AWESOME!
 
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