Self-envenomation

[GinoInDaBronx]

Hi guys,

I have never been able to find a definitive answer on one question: can a snake self envenomate, should it bite it itself? how about if it bit another SUBspecies? Abishek? Tanith? Can someone provide me with a (semi-)
definitive answer?

 

[GinoInDaBronx]

Sorry

Sorry about that, Rich Z. For some reason my sig file did not work.

gino beniquez

 

[gila7150]

Gino,
It is certainly possible. I know that Tanith had a monacled cobra that bit itself and suffered necrosis at the site of the bite that required surgery. I believe that snake eventually died of complications caused by the bite.
http://www.snakegetters.com/demo/haje/index2.html

I know of people who have had gaboon vipers that have bit and killed their mate during breeding attempts (although that may be more trauma induced than an actual envenomation). I've heard of similar occurrences involving Atheris as well.

I've personally had a copperhead that bit it's own tail. It had some minor swelling at the location of the bite that subsided within 48 hours.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I've seen a few rattle snakes that have bitten themselves causing swollen labials for up to a few weeks.

 

[snakegetters]

In some species the consequences of self or cagemate envenomation seem to be fairly trivial most of the time. I do not know whether this is a behavioral issue where these species do not meter out much venom on these kinds of bites, or a physiological issue of significant resistance to their own venom.

To generalize, most of the pit viper self and cagemate envenomations I have seen have been of minimal consequence. I just saw a terciopelo cagemate envenomation to the head last week, two gigantic B. asper arguing over a food item. There was some swelling but it resolved over a few days with no further incident. I have seen cantil, cottonmouth, copperhead and Western diamondback cagemate envenomations with similarly trivial effects.

Elapid self and cagemate envenomations have gotten a bit nastier. A few days ago I treated a severe intramuscular abscess caused by cagemate envenomation in a Suphan cobra, and I've seen similarly nasty messes in an Egyptian banded, a monocled and some spitters. My shieldnose cobras (Aspidelaps) have bitten each other without apparent effect, but so far every such incident I've seen in the genus Naja has been fairly serious with long term health consequences for the animal.

What I do not tend to see is systemic effects from this kind of envenomation. The effects appear to be local. When I have seen cases of same species cagemates that actually kill each other, it has always been a direct head bite with enough physical damage from the fangs alone to warrant the effects. I have heard a number of anecdotal reports that cross species cagemate envenomations tend to result in rapid death from systemic effects.

I would hesitate to generalize rules for all snake to snake envenomations based on the small sample I have personally seen. I don't know how much formal research has been done on the subject, if any, but a good place to ask would be Dr. Bryan Fry's Venomdoc forums (http://www.venomdoc.com)

 

[psilocybe]

Hi guys,

I have never been able to find a definitive answer on one question: can a snake self envenomate, should it bite it itself? how about if it bit another SUBspecies? Abishek? Tanith? Can someone provide me with a (semi-)
definitive answer?

It appears I saw this post too late...Tanith's already done an excellent job of answering you question. I have to ask though, are you selling this question? It's in the classifieds...LOL

 

[Vinny D]

YES, like most of the other people posted. a venomous snake can envenomate it self. i have only witnessed this happining one time with my tanzanian puff adder. he struck at the rat and 1 fang hit the rat and the other just bairly scratched his bottom jaw. causeing some swelling for a couple of days, and then it went away. but i have read about snakes actually dying because of self envenomation. usually they will recover with no long term damage depending on the locality of the bite and how much venom was enjected.. hope this helps some..

 

[MacDonald]

Many times handling Bothrops asper or Crotalus, bite themselves trying bite my hand, and even the fang go througth the lower jaw, and of course, some times, inoculate venom in their own body, but I've note certain resistance to selfvenoming. I also see two Heloderma horridum charlsboguertti bite eachother, and both presented swelling, but they recuperate very fast. Maybe, the most injury, is cause of the hurts, not the venom. Is diferent in Elapidaes, wich are neurotoxics, and ofidiofagus.