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Bad Guy Sellers Beware of John Franco!

nickolasanastasiou said:
He was told a bottom number early on. He repeatedly ignored that bottom number. If someone repeatedly ignores what I say, I am less inclined to do business with that someone. I consider it a matter of manners.
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Also disrespectful to the seller. If you can't afford the price move on to the next ad.
 
JimM said:
Also disrespectful to the seller. If you can't afford the price move on to the next ad.
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ehh, but that's business. In this case nobody demonstrated more disrespect than the seller. IMO these non-refundable deposits are a bit unreasonable. However a modest restocking fee seems fair and easily justified, perhaps 10% of the deposit.:eek:
 
Mutualistic business and attempts at unilaterally self-serving business are both business. One decides for one's self which kind(s) of business one wants to engage in. Treating every deal like it is one's last might just one day be a case of self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
If you look at Post #1, Screenshot #1, that is the point where this whole mess could have been avoided entirely with your first response to the buyer. The buyer said he was interested in buying your FEMALE Chahoua. It is rather obvious that he missed the one place in the ad copy where you used just the four letters "poss" before the word female (probably in his excitement, as Nick previously said).

You replied to him that "she" has had a lot interest but you never confirmed with him whether he had noticed that small disclaimer about the sex being "poss" nor did you come out right then and tell the buyer you were unsure of the sex until after his initial deposit had been made (and it may have even been after the next payment was made). You continually referred to the animal as a female after that first exchange until he asked you if you were sure of the sex.

In your first response to his initial inquiry, you should have pointed that out to him to be sure he understood that the stated sex in the ad was a guess rather than simply going ahead and calling the animal "she" repeatedly in the subsequent conversations.

I (still) believe the buyer deserves every penny back in his pocket.
 
zovick said:
If you look at Post #1, Screenshot #1, that is the point where this whole mess could have been avoided entirely with your first response to the buyer. The buyer said he was interested in buying your FEMALE Chahoua. It is rather obvious that he missed the one place in the ad copy where you used just the four letters "poss" before the word female (probably in his excitement, as Nick previously said).

You replied to him that "she" has had a lot interest but you never confirmed with him whether he had noticed that small disclaimer about the sex being "poss" nor did you come out right then and tell the buyer you were unsure of the sex until after his initial deposit had been made (and it may have even been after the next payment was made). You continually referred to the animal as a female after that first exchange until he asked you if you were sure of the sex.

In your first response to his initial inquiry, you should have pointed that out to him to be sure he understood that the stated sex in the ad was a guess rather than simply going ahead and calling the animal "she" repeatedly in the subsequent conversations.

I (still) believe the buyer deserves every penny back in his pocket.
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Perfect explanation!

If I'm not sure on sex, I will start the ad by saying possible/probable female, that way it isn't missed.

I would have been done with the buyer after his repeated attempts at a lower price after the bottom line price given.

The repeated use of feminine pronouns would lead a buyer to believe it is indeed a female. Refund the money and reword your ad to stress the fact that it isn't definitely a female yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Animal wasn't shipped. Seller's Ad was misleading. Make the buyer happy as it "could" be stated that a mistake or misunderstanding was made on both parts. Refund the money to buyer. Call it a day.

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I guess the seller figures he should hang onto the money now because it might be the last reptile sale he ever makes after this incident. If he acts like this over his own misleading ad what if there was a problem with shipping or the animal itself ?
 
It would be nice to hear back from the OP on this...it could be a bit concerning to future buyers IMHO, given the concerns raised.
 
In all communications all I heard was she this and she that. Your hands are not tied because of your TOS. It's your TOS. The very thread you created will now damage your reputation if you don't give a full refund. You still have your animal. If you refund the money your not out anything. Maybe a little time and a little frustration but give the money back. It's the only right thing to do in my opinion.
In your future ads you need to be more clear. Then when communications start say it again.
 
Judging by the responses read here, there are alot of people responding on this thread that dont participate in the Chahoua, or even gecko community.

"Possible Females" are sold all the time, hell, even unsexable animals are sold at a higher price than a known male because it could turn out to be a female.

15gms, no pores, is a pretty good chance that the animal is a female. Pores can pop up in the mid 20's, but rare, and thats the risk all people take when buying at that stage in development. Thats just the way it is.

I feel like anyone willing to spend 650 for a young gecko showing no pores knows exactly what they are getting into. If that thing was a proven female at 2 years old its going to cost $1000. I think the offers that the buyer was making clearly indicates he knew the risk involved and wanted to minimize such risk.
 
vitog123 said:
Judging by the responses read here, there are alot of people responding on this thread that dont participate in the Chahoua, or even gecko community.



"Possible Females" are sold all the time, hell, even unsexable animals are sold at a higher price than a known male because it could turn out to be a female.



15gms, no pores, is a pretty good chance that the animal is a female. Pores can pop up in the mid 20's, but rare, and thats the risk all people take when buying at that stage in development. Thats just the way it is.



I feel like anyone willing to spend 650 for a young gecko showing no pores knows exactly what they are getting into. If that thing was a proven female at 2 years old its going to cost $1000. I think the offers that the buyer was making clearly indicates he knew the risk involved and wanted to minimize such risk.
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I do not know chahoua geckos, but I do know crested geckos, so yes, buying un-sexed geckos is normal; even possible females.

That is not my issue here, the issue is that it could still be male, there is always that chance. Her ad did not display that it was possible female visibly enough that it was impossible to overlook. Even one responder here overlooked it. That combined with the fact the seller used only feminine pronouns when corresponding with the buyer, would lead one to believe that it was definitely female.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
vitog123 said:
Judging by the responses read here, there are alot of people responding on this thread that dont participate in the Chahoua, or even gecko community.

"Possible Females" are sold all the time, hell, even unsexable animals are sold at a higher price than a known male because it could turn out to be a female.

15gms, no pores, is a pretty good chance that the animal is a female. Pores can pop up in the mid 20's, but rare, and thats the risk all people take when buying at that stage in development. Thats just the way it is.

I feel like anyone willing to spend 650 for a young gecko showing no pores knows exactly what they are getting into. If that thing was a proven female at 2 years old its going to cost $1000. I think the offers that the buyer was making clearly indicates he knew the risk involved and wanted to minimize such risk.
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You make some good points here however I think since he has the gecko he should return the money. This much aggravation over so little cash is not worth it. I'll be honest before I make any reptile purchases online I always check the BOI for seller's reputation but most important to me is if problems were encountered and how were they handled.OP Don't ruin your reputation refund the money. People will know not to do payment plans with the buyer, let his rep be the one that's blemished.
 
I don't think most people will hesitate to do business with the buyer based on this. I know I wouldn't turn him down. I don't think he did anything wrong. I seriously doubt it was buyers remourse. He thought he was getting a for sure female. I think it's prob that simple.
But on the other side of the coin I do think someone would hesitate to do business with the seller. This is not a lot of money and the OP is clinging to her TOS just to hold onto the little remaining balance owed back. It's petty.
But what I do like about this story is the seller came here thinking she would slam the buyer and ended up shooting her own self in the foot.
 
Reptar said:
You make some good points here however I think since he has the gecko he should return the money. This much aggravation over so little cash is not worth it. I'll be honest before I make any reptile purchases online I always check the BOI for seller's reputation but most important to me is if problems were encountered and how were they handled.OP Don't ruin your reputation refund the money. People will know not to do payment plans with the buyer, let his rep be the one that's blemished.
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That's all up for debate. I don't have an opinion on that either way.
I just wanted to point out the gamble that's taken with probably the majority of gecko sales. When I buy geckos 15gms with no pores, I think I have a female and cross my fingers it stays a female.


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"This girl", "she", "her" = I am talking about this animal as if it is a definite female

"This gecko", "it" = I am correctly referring to an animal whose gender I do not wish to guarantee.

Problem solved, lesson learned, refund in order.
 
I do think this is a lesson learned type thing. I dont see the seller as a bad guy. I think she is trying to be a respectable seller and stick her to TOS as a way to make herself a reputable breeder. I think she just needed to see the responses from people here to see that not every sale is black and white. Sometimes its ok to break away from your terms, especially if you take a moment to see you may have been in the wrong. I think she originally thought she was doing the right thing because to be fair it DOES say poss female. But the communication of only using the pronoun she is misleading. If its poss, then restate it and use the pronoun it. I do hope she comes back and makes it right in this instance. Lesson learned and grow from this situation.
 
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