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Sellers who intentionally misrepresent

W

Wilomn

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http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95614

The above link is to an add that is misprepresenting some Calkings. This same seller has coined a new phase, copper, which looks amazingly akin to hypo or possible rubyeye calkings and when he had pointed out that the snakes in the above ad were NOT black and white, merely locked and then deleted the thread in which he was questioned.

When I asked him about the new and previously unheardof "copper" calking, he simply ingored the question entirely.

It seems to be a theme with jnjreptiles and one which I don't much favor for ANYONE. I breed calkings and have been involved with them for many years and am seeing more and more creative names made up just to sell them, which is FINE if it's based on fact or can be proven.

But to sell brown and yellows, which are coastal and tend to have much more pattern variablity than do the desert calkings, as which are black and white or VERY dark brown and white with nowhere near the pattern variability, especailly after it's been pointed out, seems somewhat like lying to make a sale to me which is not right.

So, I'm sort of curious about what you, The Faithful Fauna Readers, think of sellers like jnj who are doing this.

I think it sucks and should not be tolerated when it is so blatantly done.

It's one thing to make an innocent mistake but in this instance, I do not think it was either an mistake or innocent.

I tried to do a screen capture of the ad as I am sure it will disappear soon, but couldn't get it small enough to post. I've got it saved though.
 
I'm no expert on kings so I won't even attempt to get into this conversation with the exception of this one statement.

This is what the ad states.
3.0 B&W California King Snakes.
Click to expand...
Based on the photos those are not B&W snakes. Definitely yellow.

As fas as what I can see from the ad, that is the only thing I can find wrong with it.
 
I don't know kings at all, so forgive if what I say doesn't make sense... but...
He said they are B&W cal kings. He posted pictures. Soo... are they B&W Cal kings that happen to have yellowish markings instead of clean white ones? Becuase I'd say that means they are still B&W cal kings. With the pictures right there, it's not like you'd think they would come in the box and be bright white instead of that yellowish color... right?
Or.. are these something else(as seen because of the yellowish bands) and he is saying they are B&Ws?
With the pictures right there, I'd say it's not blatant lying, since you can look at the actual snake. Keep in mind that I do NOT know kings, so if there is something that I don't know about them that is not represented in the picture, that makes calling them B&W false, then that would be wrong.
If you call a snake a type, and it's not that type, then of course, that's false advertising. Bad thing.
Wolfy(who now is driven nuts by the fact that she doesn't know what's up with kings.)
 
B&W = Desert Kings
B&Y = Coastal Kings.

2 different types of kings if you were looking to add to breeding stock.

Other than that, which may be an honest mistake based upon the way the ad is written, it doesn't make him a bad guy.

But if he did change the ad and knows they are not desert kings and still tries to sell them as such, then that would be bad.
 
SPJ said:
As fas as what I can see from the ad, that is the only thing I can find wrong with it.
Click to expand...

From what I read of Wes' statement Steve, he is saying the problem stemmed from another ad that jnjreptiles then deleted and posted a new ad. The link is to the new ad. ;)
 
Bill & Amy said:
From what I read of Wes' statement Steve, he is saying the problem stemmed from another ad that jnjreptiles then deleted and posted a new ad. The link is to the new ad. ;)
Click to expand...

Yea, He did that on a bp ad he had up. As I was questioning him on a possible typo he change the ad! You can tell by the little (edit on??) at the bottom. I'll never even think about buying from that KID! Last time I had a vibe about someone like this it was CJ...
 
Bill & Amy said:
From what I read of Wes' statement Steve, he is saying the problem stemmed from another ad that jnjreptiles then deleted and posted a new ad. The link is to the new ad. ;)
Click to expand...

If that is the case, then it would appear to me that when Wes questioned him about the snakes, he took out was was incorrect and posted a new ad.
That would mean he is trying to be honest about them.
He just may have purchased these snakes as B&W and is listing them as such.

To me, it looks like to only thing wrong with the new ad is he is calling these B&W kings which would mean they are desert kings which they are not.

That may just be an honest mistake.
 
jasballs said:
Yea, He did that on a bp ad he had up. As I was questioning him on a possible typo he change the ad! You can tell by the little (edit on??) at the bottom. I'll never even think about buying from that KID! Last time I had a vibe about someone like this it was CJ...
Click to expand...

So he has a history of putting up deceptive ads to sell animals until he gets caught? Adds a whole new perspective to this.
 
If you breed calkings there is a HUGE difference between the black and white desert phase and the brown and yellow coastal phase.

Those are NOT black and whites, no matter what he bought them as. He knows this as I've pointed it out to him.

He has also created, or mimicked someone else, a new name for an old morph. I've never heard of or seen a "copper" calking but I have seen many many many hypos and rubyeye calkings that looked exactly like his "copper." When I asked him about it, he deleted my post and locked the thread. Seems like he had something to hide.

I'm all for new names for NEW morphs, but calling a calking something it isn't just to make a sale is wrong.

I don't see how he wouldn't be aware of this thread but I'm sure someone has or will shortly make him aware of it.

It's not about him in particular, just using him as the latest guy to do it. It's about misrepresentation in general and what should be done about it. I tried pointing it out and got shut down. I wasn't even mean about it.

Calkings are one species I've worked with for many years and I just don't like to see them sold as something they're not. Especially by someone who knows better.
 
So you questioned him on it, and he changed the ad to something that is more correct? That means he might have not been aware it was wrong until he got emails telling him so.
If it's STILL wrong, then of course, he still needs to correct it. Since the snakes are a diff color than what he is calling them(He says desert kings when they are clearly black and yellow) then it's a darned good thing he has pics up so people 'in the know' can see he's not got them labeled correctly.
Wolfy
 
We just got notified to this thread and will try to answer all the questions and comments .

Copper king - We bought it as a copper phase cal king, it is different than a coastal phase cal king. It may look like a coastal in pics but I can assure you it is not. I called our supplier to confirm it was not a coastal and a friend who breeds a lot of colubrids and who knows Bill Brant and he knew what they were just not the name on them.

Black and white cal kings. These are black and white cal kings by all standard definitions. They do have a yellow tint to them as we said in our add that Wes first commented on. We bought them as black and whites and that is what they are, not the best looking like some of the desert phase jet black and snow white cal kings like Wes is working with but they are NOT brown. They are black, not brown, just not the best colored cal kings.

We locked the old thread so it didn't get ruined by all the b.s back and forth about the color. If Wes still had a problem about it he is/ was more than welcome to email or call us to discuse it.

Ball python add : Jas balls : The add was for a unproven w.c axanthic ball python that we got from Ian G. It was listed with a few others including an animal that we also got as a w.c het red ( which was sold, but still listed in the add just as sold). Jas Balls made us aware that the w.c axanthic was still confusing to people so I edited the add to say W.C UNPROVEN axanthic, just to save the hassle of anyone thinking it was a proven morph. After that I deleted the add to avoid any more confusion and just offer it to anyone that saw it on our websight that could call about it. That was if some one called or emailed about it we could give them the whole story about it, and now waste thread space on here, or have it take over our add.

We have nothing to hide about ourselves or any of our animals, all some one has to do is give us an email or call and we will be more than happy to explain any questions.
 
They are very pretty cal kings and I love the way they look! Very pretty!!! However, one thing is really disturbing........

JNJ says, " These are black and white cal kings by all standard definitions. "

There is no way that statement can be true from a scientific and practical viewpoint. There is no WHITE on these snakes whatsoever!!!!! Is it just me? They are black and yellow, not black and white. The yellow is beyond apparent! I am honestly surprised that the color would even be misjudged, if those pics are accurate. If these pics are not accurate, then I stand corrected, but wow, the yellow is very apparent.

Even if who you purchased them from to resale had the BW label on them, they are clearly not, and it is strange why they would even have the white label on them to begin with.

This could be just something that was the result of something being mislabeled. I know that JNJ has a good rep and they do seem to be good people, so this post is just to point out that IMO, the BW label can not apply.
 
by the way..

here is a BW cal king.
 

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They do have a yellow tint to the white. For some reason our camera makes the yellow stand out more. We bought them as black and whites, they were produced by black and white cal kings. We said from the beginning they do have yellow in the bands just not as bad as the pics show. The biggist problem Wes seemed to have is he thinks they are brown which they clearly are not.

My understanding of cal kings has always been that they are a variable animal and breeders have selectively bred for more/cleaner white and started labeling as percentages. Desert phase cal kings are on top of the list and these are the lower end of the contrast line. Perfect for pets, not the best looks for breeding.
 
Not all desert Calkings are pitch black. Some are more like a dark chocolate brown, very very brown, one shade from black but, white.

Those snakes, no matter what you bought them as, are NOT black and whites.

My guess, if anyone cares, is that they are crosses, coastalXdesert. Selling them as what they obviously are not is not cool.

EVERYONE has seen that they are YELLOW. Not white. Yellow.

What you do is up to you but selling those snakes as what they are not is not a good thing to do.
 
I have noticed on alot of your ads when you have wc and ch animals you never put unproven on the morphs you call them. Calling an animal a "c.h. vanilla with a chance of producing super stripes" is alot different from "c.h. unproven vanilla with a very slim chance of producing superstripes because vanilla might not be the ingredient". You might want to take a step back and reread ads before you post them.
 
The first two are coastals- brown and yellow.

The second two are deserts and if you look REAL hard at the second one you will see that he is not pitch black but he IS very very dark brown. He's, I believe, 4th or 5th generation desert calking. His babies, depending on the mothers colours are never lighter in darkness but do get to that pitch colour if the mother is darker than he is.
 
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