SELLING TURTLES and TORTOISES in TENNESSEE

[rgurley]

There have been several ads recently for turtles and tortoises for sale in Tennessee. As a "public service" I will include the information and the website link for anyone interested. It is a Lacey Act violation (a felony) if you violate this state law. This law covers aquatic turtles, semi-aquatic turtles, box turtles, terrapins AND tortoises. No exclusions, no exceptions.

* I do not agree with this law. I think all captive-hatched turtles and tortoises should be exempt from regulations and I think the 4" FDA regulation should be dumped, but it is what it is, and we have to abide by the state and federal laws in the states and country in which we live.

Here is the link to Tennessee’s website:

http://tennessee.gov/sos/rules/1200/...1200-14-01.pdf

(1) below says it all – All turtles, tortoises, box turtles, terrapins, etc. are illegal to sell, buy, trade, barter, etc. in Tennessee.



1200-14-1-.35 TURTLES, TORTOISES, AND TERRAPINS.

(1) “Turtle” means any reptile of the order Chelonia.
(2) “Institution” means a school, college, university, research laboratory or other facility having a bonafide research or teaching interest in turtles. Zoos supported by public funds are also defined as
“institutions”.

Authority: T.C.A. §§49-1769, 53-607, 53-621, 53-905, 53-1023 and 53-1109. Administrative History: Original rule certified June 7, 1974. Repeal and new rule filed March 31, 1977; effective May 2, 1977.

1200-14-1-.36 SALE OF TURTLES PROHIBITED.

It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, barter, exchange or otherwise transfer any turtle as a pet; or to import or cause to be imported any type of turtle in the State of Tennessee for such purposes.

COMMUNICABLE AND ENVIRONMENTAL DISEASES CHAPTER 1200-14-1 (Rule 1200-14-1-.36, continued)

November, 2004 (Revised) 18

Authority: T.C.A. §§49-1769, 53-607, 53-621. 53-905, 53-102 and 53-1109. Administrative History: Original rule certified June 7, 1974. Repeal and new rule filed March 31, 1977; effective May 2, 1977.

1200-14-1-.37 SALE OF TURTLES FOR SCIENTIFIC, EDUCATIONAL, OR FOOD PURPOSES EXEMPTED.

Rule 1200-14-1-.36 does not apply to the sale of turtles to institutions for scientific or educational purposes, nor to the sale of turtles for food purposes.

Authority: T.C.A. §§49-1769, 53-607, 53-621, 53-905, 53-1023 and 53-1109. Administrative History: Original rule certified June 7, 1974. Repeal and new rule filed March 31, 1977; effective May 2, 1977.

1200-14-1-38 SALE OF TURTLES OUTSIDE OF TENNESSEE EXEMPTED.

Wholesale establishments in Tennessee dealing in the sale of turtles shall not be prohibited from selling turtles to other wholesale or retail establishments outside of the State of Tennessee.

Authority: T.C.A. §§49-1769, 53-607, 53-621, 53-905, 53-102 and 53-1109. Administrative History: Original rule certified June 7, 1974. Repeal and new rule filed March 31, 1977; effective May 2, 1977.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Russ, Ive never lived in Tennessee but I have know about the ban in Tennessee.

Regarding your statements I have a few questions. Let me be clear first, I'm not advocating anyone break any laws.

I'm just ignorant on the subject so maybe you could help me out.

There have been several ads recently for turtles and tortoises for sale in Tennessee. As a "public service" I will include the information and the website link for anyone interested. It is a Lacey Act violation (a felony) if you violate this state law. This law covers aquatic turtles, semi-aquatic turtles, box turtles, terrapins AND tortoises. No exclusions, no exceptions.

* I do not agree with this law. I think all captive-hatched turtles and tortoises should be exempt from regulations and I think the 4" FDA regulation should be dumped, but it is what it is, and we have to abide by the state and federal laws in the states and country in which we live.

First isn't this a public health code law for the state of Tennessee? How would shipping animals out of the state of Tennessee violate the lacy Act? Which part of the law would you be violating? I understand if you violate state laws the lacy act can be applied. Tennessee law as I understand it doesn't apply to sales out of state? Is this correct?

You state there is no exclusions and no exemptions period. I don't think that is true which is included in your own text.

First off, let's be blunt. You can kill them and eat them in Tennessee. You can sell their meat. You can sell them for food in Tennessee . You can sell them for food online and out of state. I do not see where they have to be dead to sell them as food.

You can sell them to permitted educational programs. You can wholesale them out of state.

1200-14-1-.37 SALE OF TURTLES FOR SCIENTIFIC, EDUCATIONAL, OR FOOD PURPOSES EXEMPTED.

Rule 1200-14-1-.36 does not apply to the sale of turtles to institutions for scientific or educational purposes, nor to the sale of turtles for food purposes.

1200-14-1-38 SALE OF TURTLES OUTSIDE OF TENNESSEE EXEMPTED.
Wholesale establishments in Tennessee dealing in the sale of turtles shall not be prohibited from selling turtles to other wholesale or retail establishments outside of the State of Tennessee.

Seems to me there are a few exemptions. One being that if you state your purpose is to eat them or your a wholesale business. I don't see where you have to wholesale them dead to out of state businesses.

Reading it, the only thing that is clear to me with the law is individuals in Tennessee can't own them as pets. They can't sell, trade or barter them within the State as pets.

Selling them out of state seems to be different at least for any dealer that is doing business as a wholesaler.

It seems to me you can sell turtles and tortoises live from Tennessee, Live online to out of state clients just by registering yourself as a business for that purpose.

Am I wrong?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

The 1200-14-1-38 "SALE OF TURTLES OUTSIDE OF TENNESSEE EXEMPTED."

Is separate from 1200-14-1-.37 (*** which includes food purposes.)

and doesn't mention food purposes in that part. Just wholesaling out of state as a business. It doesn't specifically mention the wholesale business has to be for food purposes only. Just in the business of selling them out of state.

It states nothing else. So I assume it can be for any purpose including the pet trade.

The only prohibition I see for the pet trade is importing into the state for that purpose and in state transactions.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Here's what I was thinking last night when I responded. I have no idea if I'm correct or if there is any others laws not specified in that PDF linked here for the TN gov site.

Since this is a discussion group seems like a good idea to discuss what is actually stated in the law.

Clearly the intent in the exemptions with the law is to protect those who are selling turtles for meat. If there is anything most of us learn about laws and regulations is that intend never matters. It's the exact wording.

Certain business interests and activities were being protected with the exemptions in my opinion. Those became legal exemptions.

If those same exemptions can be used to sell turtles live out of state for any purpose, then why not use the same exemptions for that purpose?

I don't see where it was written to state that just meat sellers can take advantage of that exemption and exclude others.

Anyways, I would be curious if someone has a different take on what is written. Those are my thoughts and curious how others view it.

 

[rgurley]

Hi Dennis -

Sorry - I was a bit worked up when I posted this.

The people selling turtles on Fauna, Facebook, Kingsnake, etc. from Tennessee are breaking Tennessee law and if they are breaking the state law and sending the turtles across state lines, that is a Lacey Act violation.

The Lacey Act states:

"Under the Lacey Act, it is unlawful to import, export, sell, acquire, or purchase fish, wildlife or plants that are taken, possessed, transported, or sold: 1) in violation of U.S. or Indian law, or 2) in interstate or foreign commerce involving any fish, wildlife, or plants taken possessed or sold in violation of State or foreign law."

Some unscrupulous sellers from Tennessee have been telling people that tortoises are exempt and that "the state only cares about water turtles". Others are actually claiming they are selling their turtles and tortoises as food. There is no one selling baby turtles and tortoises on Fauna, Facebook, Kingsnake, Craigslist, etc. who are selling their turtles or tortoises as food and I am sure that none of them are registered wholesalers selling their turtles to retailers, etc. but I might be wrong - there might be one or two.

I am not trying to stir up trouble. I think it is the duty of honest, law-abiding herpers (and especially members of my group, the Turtle and Tortoise Preservation Group - www.ttpg.org) to inform beginning or uninformed herpers who may not actually know their state laws and the ins and outs of the ESA and CITES. We have one or two talks that focus on laws, regulations, and permits each year at our conference and many of our members are quite versed in state and federal laws (much more than me). I think that USFWS would like nothing more than to start a long chain of events to entrap turtle and tortoise keepers and breeders as they have done with stings using rare snakes, endangered Cyclura, and other species.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

Russ