Sexing Prehensile Tailed Skinks

[johelian]

Hiya,
I would love some education opinions on this one please;

I think male, but am not sure..?

Celeste, I looked at the vents of my skinks (some took more persuasion than others) and I believe that my females have generally more flat areas before the vent and the Cza male has more of an indent in the middle of the tail with two bulges either side...although I think they have muscles in this area that might distort the shape slightly and make this unreliable. Id love to get pictures but there is no way they would stay still long enough for that!

 

[seishin]

My bets would be on a male. High probability, but (as always) no guarantees.

Do you have experience introducing Corucia, or do you need advice on that?

-- Celeste

 

[johelian]

Hiya,
I wouldnt mind some advice - I have read Vosjolis book on the species, and I think its that one that has info on introducing them, but I would obviously appreciate some actual one-to-one suggestions. I was planning to let them meet outside the cages under a more controlled environment initially, perhaps through mesh or something similar. When they are put into the new group enclosure, I was thinking of either putting the male in first and then the two females, or all at once. What do you think?

The male still has a few more weeks of quarantine left before he can be moved.

 

[seishin]

Letting them meet through mesh initially is a good idea, just to gauge their level of aggression. If they don't look insanely aggressive toward each other, I would then throw them all into a brand new enclosure (that none of them has been in before, so it won't have anyone's scent) simultaneously to maximize confusion. (If that's not an option, introduce the females into the male's enclosure -- but that's going to change the dynamic, as then it will be his "territory"). Make sure the new enclosure has plenty of room for them to get away from each other, and a few hiding places. Also, try rubbing each with substrate from the *other's* enclosure before introducing them, as it will help mix up their scents and confuse 'em even more! Then watch carefully and be ready to break things up if they get violent. (Have heavy gloves, towels, tongs, sticks, whatever at the ready). If the females know each other, they should be O.K., but they may attack the male or vice versa. If all goes well, the male will usually start following and courting one or both females right away. The females usually will not like this. Mayhem may ensue. If the females aren't actually *attacking* the male (or vice versa), there will be several hours of the male pursuing the females and the females countering somewhat aggressively, that may continue off and on for a week or more. (If there is actual bloodshed, you might want to break it up and try again some other time. Remember, though, that the male biting the females on the hips or back of the neck is normal courting behavior -- it's if you see them chomp down on toes or tails and flail around that you want to intervene). But be prepared to sit there and supervise for a while (like an hour or more) on the first introduction, and check up on them frequently over the first week or so. If you find them sleeping all piled up together, your job is done (for the time being).

(F.Y.I., alfredschmidti are even *more* aggressive than zebratas, and their introductions even more fraught with danger...)

Ahhh, young love... :-L

-- C

 

[johelian]

Hiya Celeste,
Thanks for the advice We can introduce all at once no problem, so Ill probably just do that after letting them meet through mesh a few times. They have seen each other through glass and made no reaction, which may be a good thing..? Ill be sure to keep an eye on things after they are introduced. The cage is a reasonable size and will have several hiding spots and escape routes.

Sometimes I wonder if my Cza knows what he is...he is the most mellow one I have ever seen. He was actually housed with two regular Czz in the shop with no issues! He himself though has two toes missing and various scrapes and wounds (all old and healed over).

 

[seishin]

Just for fun, and to stir things up (things have been a little dead on here lately), I thought I'd post a link to Paulo's web page which claims to show the vent areas of a male compared to a female:
http://dot.free.fr/pages/9.html
(Note that this site is in French).

I have not been able to confirm this with my own skinks (none of them wanted to have anything to do with this little examination, and I have just been way too busy) -- can anyone else comment on the comparison of vent areas? I'd be especially interested if some experienced breeders can confirm that this difference in the vent areas is a good indicator of gender.

-- Celeste

 

[johelian]

Hey all,
I did notice some similarities to this theory in my skinks intially - however, I do believe that body weight may have a strong influence on it. I had a female skink who came to us skinny, and didnt gain any weight despite spending hundreds of pounds at the vet; as she got skinnier, her vent began to resemble that of a male. I think that there are muscles running along the edges of the tail up from the vent in a similar location to the hemipenes, which may confuse things if they are visible. That being said though, my biggest female has a perfect "female" vent and my alfredschmidti male has a perfect "male" vent!

 

[johelian]

Is it me or can you not edit posts on here?

Ive had another look at my skinks vents, and I think as well that it can be very hit-and-miss; one of my females consistently seems to switch between "male" and "female" vents (she has a typical female "build" however with small head and huge pearshaped body). I think the problem with this method is that, from what I can gather, the centre of the tail also appears to have a muscle running directly down it; when she flexes, the central muscle tenses and the more regularly flat appearance of the "female" vent becomes more contoured. When she is relaxed (which isnt often when shes being held!) and the tail is liften, it becomes stereotypical "female".

Perhaps its because PTS have greature musculature than many other skinks (I dont know this for a fact, but Im guessing its the case) in the tail region that makes this method inaccurate? I can see that it would be very easy for someone to try and examine the vent of a struggling PTS and for it to appear erroneously "female" as the skink twists and flexes, as it is happening to me! Maybe this is one that can work well as a secondary method once an idea from body shape has been established?