Bad Guy Shannon Craft aka Crazysnakelady ripped half my collection off

[critical bill]

Second You talk of " free lunch" well that's exactly what You were looking for from Your friend.

Lets say for arguement that's true and her friend simply had enough of caring and putting her time and money into these animals - anticipated not being compensated for that - sold the animals to recoup her expenses. Why keep the additional money from the sale of all the caging and miscellaneous items?

Are you saying that a list of all that below is equivalent to 5 months of care and feeding?
-------------
1.1 bp
0.0.1 Biak GTP
0.1 Irian Jaya Carpet
2.3 ATB
1.3 Sub & Adult Candoia
2.4 Baby Candoia

4 Exo Terra Cages (large style)
4 Vision Cages
1 4ft neodesha
1 4ft boaphile
Misc. Items (extension cords, water bowls, hides, thermostats, etc)a lot of new items
-------------

Even if she went about this the legal way, there still has to be a balance here. So where and when has that balance been returned?

Or maybe she sold everything off right down to the very penny she felt she was owed for her expenses? And if that's true then where are the receipts that would prove her expenses?

Do you know what her excuse has been as to why she sold her freinds stuff? She says "I was told to do this by my attorney". By an attorney she so happens work for, and probably under the desk. I shouldn't have said that, but I did. I get vexed easily and lose self control occasionally. But I'm sorry.

Anyway...an attorney told her to become a thief and sell her freinds stuff. I have never heard anything more nuts in my life.

 

[kmarsh]

Truthfully Bill, I agree with most all You have said (other than the under desk part <weg>) but that aside. My beef was really of friends that just expect too much. A couple of snakes could be asked of a friend but 20 and possible 3 gravid? Thats just unreasonable use of a friend and to expect her to go begging for free mice to the mice guy every week for 4 months?Agreement or not thats just something, I personally wouldnt want to have to do week after week. Not to mention the chores involved. I could just sympathize with the frustration of the friend but then for her to attack me and name call me and make accusations against me without any reason. That just makes her look very unstable and un factual in her statements. We have all agreed to help a friend out from time to time but there are times some people just push the limits of friendship and sadly it results in this kind of stuff....Just my opinion............

 

[shrap]

Shannon did not have to agree to watch those animals. But she did agree. Then sold her "friends" pets in the middle of the agreed upon time. Shannon is straight up trash.

If it would have been my pets someone did that to.... its not an attorney they should be worried about showing up at their door.

 

[ophidile]

--- just want to put it out there that I do agree with ya Bill & shrap, Shannon agreed to the responsibility, reluctantly or no, and did not adhere to even the minimum timeframe (according to the vodkadreamz) nor did Shannon apparently even make minimal good-faith efforts to return the critters and supplies. That's a pretty crappy thing to do, and quite likely illegal. I suppose it does reflect on Shannon's "business rep", too, in that some of those animals and supplies were sold... I know I wouldn't want to buy an animal with that kind of ownership dispute!!!

It's still hard for me to get over foisting animals on someone in the first place As near as I can tell, that's what happened.

What a mess.

 

[critical bill]

Shannon did not have to agree to watch those animals. But she did agree. Then sold her "friends" pets in the middle of the agreed upon time. Shannon is straight up trash.

If it would have been my pets someone did that to.... its not an attorney they should be worried about showing up at their door.

Precisely. I think some people forget that aside from the monetary value of the property that there is also an emotional attachment to that property too. I mean its common sense, why would you be holding onto it and looking for a dear friend to care for it in your absence if it were something you didn't care about or want. Its sort of like a double hit, your not only out your possessions but the possessions that you really cared about.

But there isn't any good way for either ladies to fix the past. If the foundation of their friendship was strong - I would use that as a tactical advantage to become close again and just close enough to bury a knife in that chest and kick them in a ditch. NO! I didn't say that. Dont listen to me ladies. I would try and fix things if I could. Yeah that's it...that's what I meant....fix things.

 

[Curious George]

BoaKing

Accept my apologies in that I read your quote as some others did, as having originated in a PM from one of the two particulars, and felt that if such was the case, you needed to lump it. That said, blurbs in anonymous karma-zaps are pretty insignificant as well, although the sender could have owned it by signing their name as part of the comment, rather than take advantage of your not being paid to view their identity.

My feelings about Shannon being in the greater error here were posted earlier. However, all this hob-knobbing about what great friends they were seems to be narrow hindsight. As noted by others, you find out who the true friends are when stress is applied. That Shannon was a swell friend in good times is a blue star at best, not gold. The extent to which the friendship swung as far as it did in the other direction is the better indicator that it was fair-weather at best. Friendships can take hits, and folks disagree, while still maintaining the respect that would be the mark of a "friend in need ... friend indeed". In this case, it would have been Shannon following a more legal, and more "fair", process in alleviating the burden of the animals. I don't see a friendship recovery here without a move by Shannon to find a more fair solution than what she chose. We're talking $ owed.

 

[critical bill]

--- just want to put it out there that I do agree with ya Bill & shrap, Shannon agreed to the responsibility, reluctantly or no, and did not adhere to even the minimum timeframe (according to the vodkadreamz) nor did Shannon apparently even make minimal good-faith efforts to return the critters and supplies. That's a pretty crappy thing to do, and quite likely illegal. I suppose it does reflect on Shannon's "business rep", too, in that some of those animals and supplies were sold... I know I wouldn't want to buy an animal with that kind of ownership dispute!!!

It's still hard for me to get over foisting animals on someone in the first place As near as I can tell, that's what happened.

What a mess.

I find that when you help a friend in need it sort of makes both people feel good. You can do something nice and it makes you feel good and the other person feels good because its weight of their shoulders. But that's just it when you're a good friend to someone - when you extend or accept an offer to help or assist - you shoulder a bit of their weight when they cannot. But I'm not here to give lessons in friendship - I'm sure most of you grasp the concept of a good friend.

A lot of folks will commit themselves and obligate themselves to help another, but they cant see what the extent of that help is until their way in over their head themselves. Now they are struggling - now they are both struggling. And if you are looking for a reason to quit on your friend..it really isn't hard to decide that when you sort of believe they have already quit on you. Sometimes its imagined and sometimes its not.

And that is what you see right here in front of you. Kaboom. Girls Gone Wild #26.

Some people just don't understand what the word friend means. Its one of the most important words right up their with the word love. They are words used to often without a whole lot of meaning and understanding behind them.

Well...its time from another gin-n-tonic. Chuck Kimmel...signing off.

 

[critical bill]

karma-zaps are pretty insignificant as well, although the sender could have owned it by signing their name as part of the comment, rather than take advantage of your not being paid to view their identity.

I did own it. He...just like you...are not paid members and cannot see who is leaving karma for you.

I forgive you, but do not ever accuse me of taking advantage of anyone. You will not like the consequences. Now tuck that in your tukus Georgie and go swing along.

 

[[email protected]]

Accept my apologies in that I read your quote as some others did, as having originated in a PM from one of the two particulars, and felt that if such was the case, you needed to lump it.

No hard feelings brother, apology accepted.

 

[Curious George]

I forgive you, but do not ever accuse me of taking advantage of anyone. You will not like the consequences. Now tuck that in your tukus Georgie and go swing along.

Geez .. apologies #2, as I missed where it had been owned.

Tukus ? Say, are you that guy in the yellow hat, always with the banana in his pocket, saying "Come here my little primate"?

 

[ophidile]

Not to get too far off topic, but I'm basically not factoring the "friendship" angle into this - I don't know what they were like before this incident, how Shannon felt about Sarah, etc. I have had "friends" put some real unreasonable requests on me - such as crashing at my new place as I was trying to move in and start a new job so she could visit her underage girlfriend whose dad didn't approve of her seeing his daughter.
I basically drove all over trying to find them so they weren't on the street and then said the only thing I was going to do was see to it they had a way home.
We weren't really "friends" anymore after that. She pretty much had only talked to me when she wanted something once I'd graduated high school and moved away, anyway.

I find that when you help a friend in need it sort of makes both people feel good. You can do something nice and it makes you feel good and the other person feels good because its weight of their shoulders. But that's just it when you're a good friend to someone - when you extend or accept an offer to help or assist - you shoulder a bit of their weight when they cannot. But I'm not here to give lessons in friendship - I'm sure most of you grasp the concept of a good friend.

A lot of folks will commit themselves and obligate themselves to help another, but they cant see what the extent of that help is until their way in over their head themselves. Now they are struggling - now they are both struggling. And if you are looking for a reason to quit on your friend..it really isn't hard to decide that when you sort of believe they have already quit on you. Sometimes its imagined and sometimes its not.

And that is what you see right here in front of you. Kaboom. Girls Gone Wild #26.

Some people just don't understand what the word friend means. Its one of the most important words right up their with the word love. They are words used to often without a whole lot of meaning and understanding behind them.

Well...its time from another gin-n-tonic. Chuck Kimmel...signing off.

 

[critical bill]

Say, are you that guy in the yellow hat, always with the banana in his pocket, saying "Come here my little primate"?

Enough with the jumping off topic crap Georgie, this isn't the circus. K?

 

[Snyds911]

You know, I really agree with you Shannon, judging by what you said, and what Sarah said, your side seems to have more evidence. However, I am curious about the whole cage value/animal money went...

 

[[email protected]]

It's always hard to give up your animals, whether temporarily or permenantly.

Here's a short story, not meant personally to either of my friends here (Shannon & Sarah), but just an illustration of how others have handled similar situations. This is true and just took place a few weeks ago.

A local friend (well kind of local, he's up towards the IL/WI border, I'm way south of Chicago) lost his place and is relocating. He couldn't take his herps with him so he started making arrangements. He called me and asked if I'd take his ATB (which he got from me in '07) and told me he'd even pay me the posted price I was selling it for at the time when I gave it to him as a gift... Nope, a gift is a gift, and nope, I won't keep it. Once he's ready I'll gladly give it back. His other herps though, he gave away to good homes never to get them back. I wish I could have helped with the other stuff, but I couldn't. But I'll do my best to help him rebuild when the time comes.

Relocating is tough, you leave friends, among other things, behind but it must really suck if you're forced to leave pets behind.

I know Shannon and Sarah both had the best of intentions at the beginning of this thing. I know Shannon got overwhelmed and stressed and practically gave the stuff away (some was indeed given away). I also know Sarah eventually would have come through on her end of the deal if/when she found herself in a position do to so. That "if/when" probably weighed pretty heavy on Shannon at the time.

There were definitely better ways to handle this from both side of this deal, no denying that. But I truly think this thing is a wash. Like my good friend Christine AKA Tailswithscales said (on page 2 or 3 I believe), I think they should put this behind them and move on. IMO, neither of you's are bad guys, I think you're both the "real deal" - you know, passionate about your herps, not just looking to make some money. I think you'll both be around this hobby for a long time.

Sarah, you lost a chunk of your collection; let me help. You know I'm expecting a nice crop of babies real soon, I'll help you rebuild OK? I'd love to do this for you. We can talk about the details privately, but I'd love to help out. You and Chip have talked about coming to Chicago for a visit so let's do it

 

[[email protected]]

There is also a saying that goes something like: "a friend will dance with a friend in the sunshine and walk with them in the shadows".

It seems according to a few here that you two gals were the greatest of friends. There has to be something good remaining in each of your memories about each other, no?

It is impossible that this one wrong deed, regardless of who is to blame, could wipe all those good things and those good times and memories away.

Why choose to live with a single bad memory and throw away all the good memories? You both know your limitations now, more about each other than you did in the past. And by forgiving you may each give yourself a great opportunity to make some magnificent memories as friends you wouldn't possibly think of attaining.

You've both had time to vent here and other places I'm sure. Its just money, money.

Call each other and apologize at the same time and go forward. Best to you both.

Yep...exactly what CRITICAL BILL just said! Give it some serious thought...please.

 

[GeckoRae]

You 2 have good heads on those shoulders. Your too kind Mike!

 

[[email protected]]

You 2 have good heads on those shoulders. Your too kind Mike!

Well, that comes with age and experience. Over the course of many highs and lows, and many heart aches, you can't help but learn the value of friendship and the healing power of forgiveness.

 

[critical bill]

Well, that comes with age and experience. Over the course of many highs and lows, and many heart aches, you can't help but learn the value of friendship and the healing power of forgiveness.

Yep, exactly what Mike said.

And I'd add - don't be discouraged if your friend isn't ready to talk to you right now. You might not even be ready to talk to her yourself. But together stop talking badly about each other and leave the door open for reconciliation. Everything changes over time, everything.

God bless you all and have a great weekend.

 

[GeckoRae]

True friends ar ethere till the end. I have many aquintances, but few friends. I have a great friend/battle buddy. I have known her since day 1 when we both met in Basic training. We went through medic school together to. There was a time we fought over a boy (army boys = no no) we knew better. Didnt talk for months. When we put our pride away, and apologized and took responcibility for our actions everyting has been kosher since. I seen her in april when she came for a few day visit. Nothing feels better than to pick up where we left off, and could talk like we have known each other forever.

Somtimes people dont know how to be friends. Or listen to other people, and not thier heart. I really feel that there was outside circumstances and opinons that affect both her and my judgments.

You are right Mike about some of the senitmental value of those animals. She knew it too, and could possibly been one major reason why she wanted to take them on at the time. Somtimes people get divorces (not just legally married folks) and somtimes one losses everything. I could have left those animals in the care of my ex. But I dont think he would have cared for them properly. The reason why they came with RI in the first place was I went out of town (to come to ok for a visit) before I left, for about 10-14 days. I KNOW he didnt care for them when I was gone, I had a dedicated arboreal room (walk in closet) for those snakes, to keep humidity up and to recieve their gauranteed multiple sprays a day. When I came back into town I noticed retained shed, bone dry substrate, and later that week or so those RIs. Either way in the end I was bound to loose everything. One way or anouther.

Fortently, whatever happens now in my life now I have a good family here. If I had to move out of this house,and not have a warehouse anymore, fortently I am right here in town, with family and the low cost of living. I will never make those same mistakes again. You never seem to think "what if" on things like that until it happens to you. Hell I thought I was on top of life when I was working on the farm, and being able to work with snakes. When it came down to it, and thats how I had to survive by doing shows and etc it became a chore, and was no longer fun. Why ruin a passion, and a fun great hobby. All in all, I am glad to be back home with a new start. Still it hurts not having those animals and things back. And all and all I feel it could have been handled differently.

 

[snakekid94]

CrazySnakeLady

Need I post more ? This chick starts crapola on RG all the time. She instigated a stalker to continue tyo stalk a member there and Robert Coral is such a coward only concerned with promoting his business, he allowed the harassment to continue by this Crazy Snake Lady and the stalker. The member, and numerous others, left the site as a result.

There is a lot of he said/ She said in this thread, but the end result is the same.......this is a Crazy Snake Lady