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Shipping in the freeeeezing cold. . .

Janie Manaski

Janie Mork
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There have been a couple incidents on the BOI lately that have to do with this subject, and I have been very interested. You see, I ordered a green hypo ball python before Thanksgiving. I live in Minnesota. At the time, the weather was in the 40s and 50s. Of course, the minute my money order made it to the seller, the temps did a nose-dive. He doesn't seem to mind holding on to the little guy, (which I really appreciate) but of course, I'm excited to get the animal. I'm trying not to jinx the situation by being too optimistic about the weather. I only check the forecast 3-4 times a day! Anyway, it seems there are differing opinions on how cold is too cold to send a reptile. As there are obviously a lot of knowledgeable breeders/dealers on this message board, I thought I'd poll and see what most people think is a reasonable temp to send a ball in. I am sure that the person I have purchased from knows how to pack an animal for cold weather, so that is not an issue. I'll know that I'm really addicted to this hobby when I end up moving so I can recieve snakes 12 months a year.
 
Janie,

I live in South Dakota and now exactly hou you feel. This morning (8:00 am) we had -2F. Below I'm citing one of the best posts I've seen in the subject matter. My personal preference is not to receive shipments when temperatures during the day are below 35F.

Best regards.

My shipping method is similar with a couple of minor variations. I use the same boxes Neil referenced from Superior Enterprises. These measure just under a cubic foot and have 1/2 or 3/4 inch foam panels precut to cover all 6 sides.

When shipping neonates, I use prepunched delis exclusively. The danger with the paper towel that the other gentleman mentioned can be eliminated by simply tearing it by hand into one inch strips and then tearing those into smal (1/2 to 1 inch) pieces. About one sheet prepared this way per deli (8 oz) makes for a well cushioned bed for most animals.

Superior sells delis in sizes large enough to hold pretty large adult and subadult animals as well. As long as you use an approprately sized container, this method will work beautifully.

I then tape the delis into small stacks of 2 or 3 using heavy duty Scotch Tape in two bands crisscrossed around each stack. The bottom deli in each stack is then taped to the bottom of the box with a loop of duct tape. This keeps the delis form shifting during shipment. I use loosely crumpled sheets of newspaper to further lock the delis in place. When packed properly in this manner, the animals will not be damaged by the type of jostling that is common with all carriers.

The only major difference in my method is that i have not found it necessary to punch the holes in the top styro panel as was described in the other posts. The shipping boxes mentioned are well insulated but the insulation is not cut to tolerances that make it airtight. I have run several tests with remote thermometers and found that heat will bleed slowly out of the box with no air holes punched at allI also do not. I also do not seal all of the outside cardboard seams. This allows for a very slight exchange of air which could be very beneficial if the package is delayed in transit.

The guidelines I use for heatpacks are.

Destination temperature 37 to 54 = 1 40 hour heatpack
" " 15 to 36 = 2 40 hour heatpacks.

If the destination temperature is below 15 degrees, I give serious consideration to waiting on shipping but I will say that I have shipped to minnesota in sub zero weather at the buyer's insistence (that was 3 heatpacks) and the animals arrived just fine.

I do take into account the hub temperature but not to a great extent. Packages are not usually exposed there for more than an hour or two. What most people don't take into account is that putting an insulated container with an interior temp of 75 and 2 heatpacks still generating into a 32 degree outside temp will not lower the interior temp more than 15 or 20 degerees over a three or four hour period. I have run several tests with remote thermometers and sealed boxes to verify this.

I generally wrap the heatpack loosely in a half sheet of newspaper leaving the ends of the newspaper open (like a tube). I then tape it to one end of the box and place the animals at the opposite end. The crumpled newspaper in between used as packing helps to spread and dissipate the heat evenly.

This same method works perfectly well during the summer with coldpacks. My guidelines are

Destination temp 80 to 88 = 1 coldpack
Destination temp 86 to 94 = 2 coldpacks
Destination temp 95 to 100 = 3 coldpacks.

Slip the packs into a ziploc bag and duct tape them to the opposite end from the animals. Otherwise, the parameters are the same.

Again, I have shipped animals to Las Vegas in 105 daytime temps with no problems at all.

By the way...always check the weather conditions at your buyer's location the night before shipping. I do this very easily at weather.com.

I will say that my experience has only been with colubrids. I am sure that the tolerances would have to be adjusted for the tropical animals that have been previously described. However, using these parameters, I have shipped well over a 1500 animals in the last three years in over 400 individual shipments and not lost a single animal with the exception of one shipment that Airborne "misplaced" at one of their centers for 4 days in the middle of winter. This is definitely not the only system but it is definitely a set of parameters that works.

I hope this info is of use to those of you who are just getting into the shipping aspect of this business.


__________________
John Schmitt

Suncoast Herpetological
 
Look.... it doesn't matter what the temperature is outside.... if you KNOW how to pack a box for cold-weather shipping, there should be no problems??
When you go outside to play in the freezing cold, do you JUST put on a heavy coat? NO.... you put on a t-shirt, then a regular shirt over it, then maybe 2 sweaters, then your overcoat.... LAYERS KEEP YOU WARM!! Even if you have to tell the seller that you would be more than willing to pay an extra $5 to have the dealer wrap the deli cup in a couple of layers of WARM CLOTH (like "snuggly" comforter material).... you can get it in any fabric store.... you put the deli cup wrapped in the cloth LAYERS in a styrofoam-lined NEW box with loosely crumpled newspaper as stuffing.... DO NOT PUT AIRHOLES IN THE CARDBOARD BOX.... PUT AIRHOLES IN THE TOP OF THE STYROFOAM BOX **ONLY**!! Then SEAL ALL OUTSIDE EDGES of the cardboard box.... tape 2-3 40-HOUR heat packs (wrapped in newspaper) to the TOP of the styro box.... AND YOU WILL PROBABLY NEVER HAVE A DOA, NO MATTER WHERE YOU SHIP IT.... EVEN TO ALASKA (which I have done with NO problems).... try it....

....Neil
 
Labeling doesn't matter diddly

I have a very close friend who is very successful herper. He took at job at UPS over Christmas season - unloading semi's (we live up north). I talked to him today and he said, "Forget about labeling your packages with 'this side up' or 'keep at room temperature' - because they don't care - they just want you to get the thing unloaded."

He noticed several packages that were herp shipments - all of them sat in a cold (below zero) semi all night. He said it convinced him that it's just too risky for the animal to ship up north when it's this cold - no matter how well you think your packing system works.

What makes it worse is guys like me shipping in cold from Minnesota to say Atlanta Georgia (which I did recently). It's hard to plan effectively because you have to think through every step along the deliversy - when will the heat pack be needed - when will it arrive - and how warm is the destination. It makes it very interesting indeed.

Neal, you might be the best herp packer of all time (I don't doubt that at all) but I'm still nervous about shipping herps this time of year, when your way up "NORT" (as the Norwegians say around here).
 
Monte.... Your words....

....but I'm still nervous about shipping herps this time of year....

FINE! Be nervous! I'm sure you were nervous the first time you did A LOT of things.... but, you stil did it, and it probably went well....
Sometimes nerves are a GOOD thing.... you'll make less mistakes if you THINK about what you're doing....

....Neil
 
I have to agree about shipping this time of year with UPS I dont know about other shippers. I would imagine their about the same but I worked for UPS for several years and NO ONE CARES!! You can put all the labels you want on your box and it will still get thrown crushed, kicked, knocked off piles, frozen, baked and just about anything else you can imagine. This time of year is the worst, Ive seen broken TV's come through, computers etc. UPS makes a big fuss if the package is over 70 pounds they make up pt a special sticker on it. Ive seen shipments of herps and crickets side by side on the floor of the feeder truck right by the door with 7 or 8 over 70 boxes stacked on top. We had one time someone threw a box of amo for an AK-47 on the belts and it broke open, 5000 rounds were spread about the building on the conveyer belts. It was crazy there, Ive never shipped with them since working there.
 
Another way

What I do for winter packing is use the blue Dow board insulation (for homes) and cover all sides, before I put the top on I fill the box 1/4 with cotton stuffing, then use a heat pack. Then I fill it half way with stuffing. Then I put the Bearded Dragon in (depending on size, either in a deli cup or snake bag). Fill to about 75% another heat pack and then feel the rest with stuffing.( and I may put holes in the foam depending on how cold it is.) I use the same method in the summer time with the stuffing in box spread more loosely and instead of heat packs I use cold packs and put hole thru the box and Dow board. The stuffing and the Dow board works in the same manner as a thermos and a house. It keeps heat on the inside warm in the winter and cold on the inside cold in the summer. The stuffing also works as a cushion from drops, kicks, bumps, and throws. This will keep your animals stress down also during shipment.
I have used this method to ship to the middle of Texas in the middle of summer, and have used it to shipped to upstate New York and Washington State in the middle of the winter. And think god I have never had a Reptile die in shipments that I have shipped. ( I have had them die in shipment to me though.)
 
Thanks for the replies, everyone.

The weather is looking up (highs in the 40s with lows in the 20s) all this week, so I expect to have the snake shipped Tuesday for Wednesday delivery. Hopefully all will go well and I will A).Take tons of photos of the snake so I can leave him to acclimate for a week +, and still be able to admire him, B). Make a good-guy post on the B.O.I. and C). Donate some $$ to this site because without it I would have never felt comfortable to cough up the cash on a ball morph. Thanks again.
 
Dart frog shipping

Hi, I'm new here, and have questions on shipping with heat packs.
I'm trying to get a reliable packing method down for shipping dart frogs in cold weather.
I've been doing tests in the garage (temps 20-38F), lately I've been trying a cubic foot box, insulated with 1/4" reflective bubble wrap from menards, in which I put the styro cooler that would contain the frogs in their cups, the internal dimensions of the cooler are about 8x4x6", and the walls are 1.5" thick. I tried using 3-40 hr heat packs from superior ent. taped to the outsides of the cooler, then packing the space between with crumpled newspaper, I've tried it with the seams sealed shut, then after reading this, tried just taping the box shut, leaving the side seams un-sealed, with pretty much the same results, I open the cooler 24 hour later, to find the inside of the cooler only about 5-10F warmer than the outside temp, the packs are cold and hard, then when I bring them in the house, the packs start to fire up again.
What is happening? Are my packs running out of air? Or is my outside box not insulated good enough, causing the packs to freeze at some point?
Thanks in advance,
Brian
 
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