Shipping Snakes via UPS

[DavidButton]

Well all this grief with UPS and FedEx just points me to the fact of why I am becoming a Delta Dash Known Shipper. It may be a pain for some people to go and pick up their snake at the airport, but at least they do openly accept snakes and their knowing snakes are in the boxes I send is well worth the little bit extra it may cost. I have their latest shipping rates for "live cold blooded reptiles" and the cost is really not that much as compared to the latest rate hikes of the other major shippers.
And for you people who are mad about UPS and FedEx raising their prices without letting you know, you must have missed the part of their contract that says "rates subject to change without notice".
As for UPS or FedEx accepting snakes, I have spoken to so many reps that my ear hurts from all the NO's that I have gotten over the last couple of months. Yes you can become a certified Fedex shipper, but they won't insure the contents of the package if it is a snake and they will not or cannot guarantee specific delivery times, or so says the reps I spoke to. And as I have ehard from many people here who were so excited that they could do this with Fedex, it is so much of a pain in the ass that it is almost not worth it in the end. As for UPS, I agree with WCreptiles about it being wrong that people are shipping snakes through them and I have spoken to several reps and asked how other reptile breeders are shipping snakes and they won't allow me to do so and he plainly said that they were breaking company policy by doing this and if caught the packages would be confiscated. So in the end I am only going to be shipping through Delta Dash until something else better comes along and if someone wants a snake and doesn't want to pay the little bit extra to make sure that it is safely and properly shipped then they were probably not the type of owner I would want my snakes to go to anyway.


David

 

[geckosunlimited]

"And for you people who are mad about UPS and FedEx raising their prices without letting you know, you must have missed the part of their contract that says "rates subject to change without notice"."

Uh, I think that a 40-70% increase in price (actual to dim. weight) is absolutely insane! I've had a daily account with UPS for years, and their prices have only gone up about 2-3% a year. With this absurd hike, I expect a UPS representative to take me out to dinner, liquor me up, and then break the news to me gently (maybe after a nice massage).

 

[DavidButton]

Well I inquired with UPS again today to find out why I keep seeing adds for snakes "shipped UPS overnight". This is what I got in reply. My original message is at the bottom. Do pay close attention to the 3rd paragraph where they state what will happen if a package with a prohibited item is found. And after reading this I wonder if they will ever accept snakes again if people keep shipping them against their rules. It only takes one dumbass who thinks he is too slick to get caught to ruin any future chances we could have at ever shipping snakes with UPS again.
So wise up you cheap asses and get with the program. Shipping snakes via UPS is PROHIBITED and you are going to give us all a bad reputation.

Here is the e-mail they sent me:

Dear David Button:

Thank you for your inquiry. Effective January 1, 2005, UPS will accept live animals for U.S. domestic transportation between the 48 contiguous states on a limited basis. This service is not offered to/from Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico or internationally.

Packages containing live animals must be prepared in accordance with specific packaging requirements. Packages containing live animals must provide for the basic humane care and safety of the animal during transportation. Any package containing a live animal shall be considered a perishable commodity and will be accepted for transportation solely at the shipper’s risk for any damage or loss arising from the perishable nature of the item. UPS shall not be liable for any special, incidental, or consequential damages.

In the event a package containing a prohibited item is found in transit, that package will be stopped at the UPS facility where discovered. UPS reserves the right to appropriately dispose of the contents of the package.

Endangered or Threatened Species

In addition to the enclosed list, any live animal that is an Endangered Species is prohibited by UPS and will not be accepted for transportation.
Shippers must refer to the list posted on the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Web site at:

http://endangered.fws.gov/wildlife.html#Species

Also, the Endangered and Threatened Wildlife and Plants 50 CFR 17.11 and 17.12, December 1999 at:

http://endangered.fws.gov/50cfr_animals.pdf


Service Type

Live animals will only be accepted for transportation when shipped via UPS Next Day Air service, and such shipments will only be accepted Monday through Thursday.


Packaging

Design and Construction of the Primary Container: All live animals offered for transportation must be in a new box. Corrugated boxes must be constructed of a minimum of 275 # bursting strength corrugated or 44 edge crush test. It is recommended that any package containing animals requiring moisture during transportation be constructed of water-resistant material such as wax coated, wax impregnated, or plastic corrugated.
Minimal ventilation holes should be provided as necessary.

Internal Packaging and Other Considerations: Internal packaging materials must be used based on the characteristics of the animal, taking into consideration the necessary humane care for the animal while in transportation. Lizards and geckos should be individually contained in bags constructed of breathable material, such as burlap. Insects should be contained in individual primary containers such as plastic jars with ventilation. Fish must be double bagged in strong plastic bags with a minimum thickness of 4 mils. Each primary bag should be approximately one third full of water with the remainder filled with oxygen.

Additional Considerations: Additional components such as food, moisture, and temperature controls should be added as necessary to provide a safe environment during transportation. Additional cushioning should be added to prevent movement of the primary containers or receptacles within the outer box.


Accepted Live Animals

This is a comprehensive list of live animals accepted for transportation.
Shippers are prohibited from shipping any animal not listed here. The following live animals are accepted for transportation unless poisonous, venomous, and/or a Threatened or Endangered Species:

Amphibians (All): e.g., frogs, salamanders, toads Crustaceans (All): e.g., crabs, lobsters, shrimp Fish (All) Insects (Limited to beneficial insects only): e.g., bees, butterflies, lady bugs Mollusks (All): e.g., clams, mussels, snails Reptiles (Limited to the following):
Lizards: e.g., chameleons, geckos, iguanas, monitors
Turtles: freshwater turtles (except: snapping turtles), land tortoises, sea turtles Worms (All)

Please note that any animal not specifically listed on the accepted list above is prohibited by UPS and will not be accepted for transportation.


Prohibited Live Animals

Live animals that are prohibited from being shipped and are not accepted
for transportation include, but are not limited to:

Any poisonous, venomous, or threatening animal
Any Threatened or Endangered Species
Arachnids: mites, scorpions, spiders, ticks
Birds
Crocodiles: alligators, caimans, crocodiles, gavials
Obnoxious Insects: flies, locusts, mosquitoes, termites, weevils
Mammals
Snakes (All): venomous or non-venomous

We hope this information is helpful. If we may be of further assistance,
please feel free to contact us.

Thank you for using UPS Internet Services.

Selena

> -----Original Message-----
> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Feb 9, 2005 2:11:52 PM MST
> To: [email protected]
>
> Who:Shipper
> Nameavid Button
> Email:[email protected]
> Phone:210-545-7249
> TrackingNumber:
> Address1:4103 Knollpass
> City:San Antonio
> State:Texas
> PostalCode:78247
> Country:usa
> Comments: I am a snake breeder and am wondering why I keep seeing people advertising that they will ship a snake overnight to my door via UPS and on your site it says NO SNAKES. Is this special treatment they are getting due to volume, or are they shipping it under a lie?
> I have spoken to several of your reps because I wanted to use your company to ship my snakes and I just don't understand how these other people are doing it.
> Here is one of the adds I have seen:
>
> " I am asking $1,250 shipped for the pair, shipping is UPS overnight in an insulated box with heat packs. Let me know if you have any questions.” >
>
>
> Any ideas on this?

 

[Tripple H Herps]

So wise up you cheap asses and get with the program.

- Your talking crap to allot of VERY well established people, you do know that right? Anyways, I am not a cheap ass, as you so blatantly put it. The economy is in a slump, and believe me I can feel it. I have no plans to pay more in shipping and then LOSE out in money on my BUSINESS! Your obviously a hobbyist and you do not understand what it means to have to pay more expenses then you can handle with less money coming in then you can handle do you?? I know one thing that is does mean, BANKRUPTCY. The only other choice I have is FedEx, now like I said I am not ready to spend that money. If I charge higher shipping, allot of people will not buy. So I am stuck with two losses, either loose on shipping or loose on sales. I have been in contact with my FedEx rep. I am trying to get lower prices but the future doesn’t seem that bright on it.

 

[DavidButton]

I was nto "Talking crap" to anyone who uses FedEx at all. What I said was that shipping snakes via UPS was against their policy and they have plainly said that over and over. ANd yes I am a hobbyist at this time, but 25 years ago I wasn't so I understand the money in, money out very well. In fact I well understand the money end probalby better now than I did back then because I have a family and my snakes take alot of money and are not making much at this time.
But the fact still remains that UPS says that they WILL NOT ship snakes, and people are doing it anyway. And yes there are some well established people in this business who are doing so, but that doesn't make it right does it?
Fedex obviously sees this market and knows that they are it besides Delta dash so they are leaning on the rates. That is wrong, but there is really nothing that can be done about that.
I am sorry if I have offended anybody, but if people keep going against UPS policy and shipping prohibited items there will never be a chance to change their minds about their policies.

David

 

[DavidButton]

Oh yes, one more thing. I do run my own business as well as the snakes. I own a small computer company www.buttoncomputers.com and service the San Antonio area. And right now I too feel the economy crunch. Since this last holiday season was such a money sucker for everyone I know it has been dead in mine and several friends businesses. And I have a wife breathing down my neck wanting to know why there isn't as much money coming in now. So don't think that you are all alone out there.

David

 

[Tripple H Herps]

And right now I too feel the economy crunch. Since this last holiday season was such a money sucker for everyone I know it has been dead in mine and several friends businesses. And I have a wife breathing down my neck wanting to know why there isn't as much money coming in now. So don't think that you are all alone out there.

- Don't worry, I know that I am not alone. Otherwise people would be purchassing. Which means when I have less sales other people have less sales.

I am sorry if I have offended anybody

- The reason I posted so sharply was that with the lack of money and you calling me a cheap a*s...... I couldn't resist.....

 

[DavidButton]

LOL ok, in your case I will change that from cheap ass to SMART ASS.
I was really just trying to get people attention drawn to this problem and maybe raise their dander a bit in the process so that they could see that this is a real problem that needs to be faced. In the end it is really the buyer that is going to have to face the facts that if you want a quality animal you are going to have to spend X amount of money on shipping or drag your butt to one of the major shows. Either way I don't really care who you ship with, it is going to be expensive and is getting more so every passing year. So sales may drop for a short time while the consumers grapple with the new shipping prices, but in the end they still want those snakes and will just have to adjust their money a bit to get them.

David

 

[Tripple H Herps]

LOL ok, in your case I will change that from cheap ass to SMART ASS.

-I get that often.....lol Even by my good and returning customers.

 

[allthatslithers]

Wow

So you go around snitching on people to UPS?
That'll help everything I'm sure...

This is a total dilemma for us. I think many people are simply unaware.
Most of the shippers I have used at various times didn't seem to even know their own rules on shipping live reptiles. Ones that were legal,you had to argue with because some assistant manager somewhere thought otherwise.
What a joke. Fedex....our only option left? Frightening.
DHL--terrible. Have never NOT had a problem with recieving packages from them. Besides it is against their rules. Now ups is gone. Airborne,riiight... they sent me back a package of harmless turtles when it WAS legal policy.Delta Dash..great..but...who wants to pay for it?
Any bored millionaires out there who have nothing better to do..a private sector reptile courier company would be great right about now.
Not very promising for the herp hobbyists/breeders.
And as far as allowing some/not others. Noone has said anything to me,I wasn't aware of the changes. UPS has said nothing. I guess it depends on their mood on any given day.

Amber/Chuck

 

[DavidButton]

Snitching on people to UPS? I don't think so!
I was trying to figure out why some people seem to be able to ship with them and I kept getting a resounding NO! when ever I talked to anyone from UPS.
And if you go to their site and you can plainly see that some reptiles are allowed, but not snakes. Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse. Would you tell the cop that pulls you over for speeding that you didn't understand what it meant by "speed limit" ?
The bottom line is that UPS says no to snake shipping and it is in their shipping guide lines, but it is up to you to read them.
This part right here should be enough to make people think twice before using them anyhow
" In the event a package containing a prohibited item is found in transit, that package will be stopped at the UPS facility where discovered. UPS reserves the right to appropriately dispose of the contents of the package. "

So what would be the point in risking an animals life over a $20 difference in price?

So in the end you can still ship via ups if you want. They are not out looking for snake shippers to catch or anything like that. ANd I am sure that people probably have shipments going through them right now as I type this.
It is only prohibited if you get caught right?


David

 

[DavidButton]

ANd one more thing. Here you are hacking on me for pointing out that it is prohibited to ship snake via UPS because it is prohibited and over here in this post on the BOI
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63961

Everyone is appaled that this guy shipped via the USPS where it is prohibited too.
So what is you point to giving me grief anyways? Is it just that you are mad that you can't ship cheaply or are you thinking that I sent in your name to UPS and they are watching you now?
All I stated here in this post was the truth. If the truth hurts you I am sorry.

David

 

[Bill_Leverton]

I truly do understand everyone's "Concern" I'm just starting out in Boa Breeding to supplement my income, and Ive been up and down every road with Ups, Airborne(Dhl), Fedex, And got a zillion stories about how one day they do accept Live reptiles, the next they dont, I was even told "What the company doesnt know wont hurt them" so dont mark the box "Live Animals" Ok so you dont mark the box and you put Fragile instead 4 out 10 times you end up with a dead snake because it will wind up in a unpressured cargo hold and you end up with a deflated "snake" Dead of course or when the driver brings it he/she is flipping the box around like a ball now your giving the reptile within more stress Which brings me to this one nagging question. On another "thread" it was brought up that there was approx 14000+ members, out all these people doesnt anyone of them work for any of these "shipping Companies" that can give us any insight ???? at the rate this is going. We are going to become no better then the scammers this site was founded on stopping .....All above is just my opinion

 

[WebSlave]

.... Which brings me to this one nagging question. On another "thread" it was brought up that there was approx 14000+ members, out all these people doesnt anyone of them work for any of these "shipping Companies" that can give us any insight ????

I think an even better question would be that with almost 17,000 members here, not one is an attorney who could help us with this problem? A problem of this type requires professional help. Help from the angle of leverage via legal rights instead of pleading on bended knee to UPS.

Bear in mind that UPS may not take much of an interest if we just tell them what business they could gain by taking on our new business. But they certainly may perk up an ear if they learn that they certainly could lose some locally quite large accounts they now have by continuing to engage in this blatantly discriminatory manner.

But this has all been approached before and got nowhere. So until everyone just accepts the fact that we have to just grasp the nettle and yank it out of the ground, nothing will ever be done about it.

 

[eandjreptiles]

I just got off the phone with my rep. It is a new account. I asked them specifically if I could ship snakes with them and the only hesitation I got was "venomous?". Of course they arent and I am now certified to send reptiles of many kinds with them. I think of all the shipping companies that I have dealt with, UPS is the easiest to become certified through.

 

[WebSlave]

I just got off the phone with my rep. It is a new account. I asked them specifically if I could ship snakes with them and the only hesitation I got was "venomous?". Of course they arent and I am now certified to send reptiles of many kinds with them. I think of all the shipping companies that I have dealt with, UPS is the easiest to become certified through.

I suggest that you get it in writing. If your rep will not do that, then it is NOT official. If something happens, it will be YOUR word against your rep's word, I can guarantee you I know who will win.

 

[CJBianco]

I suggest that you get it in writing. If your rep will not do that, then it is NOT official. If something happens, it will be YOUR word against your rep's word, I can guarantee you I know who will win.

Great advice. Things are always safer in writing. =/

Chris

 

[DavidButton]

I would truely get it in writing before I sent anything. Their company site say no snakes and I believe that they mean it. I am sure, since I still se people advertising snakes "delivered to your door via UPS", that there are snakes still being sent this way and they all claim to have "Permission" or "certification" from UPS to do so. But one reps word would not be what I called permission. Salesman will tell you anything and that is exactly what those reps are.


David

 

[psilocybe]

I recieved a pair of baby Solomon island ground boas about a month ago, shipped through UPS...the package was VERY clearly labeled (can't remember if it said "Live harmless reptiles" or "Live harmless snakes" though, probably reptiles), and I got it just fine. I normally got animals through FedEx, but I've had a couple of UPS deliveries and they went okay...I don't sell snakes, just buy them, so this is purely from the standpoint of a consumer.

 

[HerpLuver]

He was obviously embarrassed by all this and said that what he heard through the grape vine was that some snakes had escaped from one of our packages "up north" earlier in the week and terrorized one of the drivers.
.

Up north, from FL, Hmm, would Jersey count? I think so, sorry for bringing up an old topic. But i can almost guarantee that was a snake shipped to MY house, a normal burm het albino, he got loose in the UPS truck and it turned into a MAJOR fiasco that had the newspapers across the country prying for the story. I had 2 new's channel's at my house, Channel 10 and Channel 40. Let's see....
Here's one of the articles, they made me sound like a skater punk

http://www.nbc10.com/news/2455421/detail.html