SHIPPING: What you need to know!

[ForkedTung]

I guess a label that said "Wildlife" with the quantity and species and quantites listed would comply with the Lacey Act and Fish and Wildlife regs... I don't think that could be considered false or misleading.

Agreed, I'd much prefer that to listing technicals outside and rather label "wildlife" and then a complete shipping invoice.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

The Lacey Act does not specify that required labeling practices, just that packages need labeled. 50 CFR 14 is what specifies labeling requirements. This is official documentation from F&W who I contacted a few years ago to get the specific requirements instead of everyone guessing what Lacey Act was talking about. Their is no "perhaps" or "maybe" with this. This is what the government officials provided when questioned for specifics.

Perhaps that second section is what allows Fish and Wildlife to regulate labeling? It still seems like since the first part says the box must be "plainly marked" the label would need to be visible on the outside of the box

F&W is who handles everything because they are the division of the government who handles wildlife. Reptiles fall under wildlife. 50-CFR-14 does say to "Conspicuously marking the outside of each container" which does mean "plainly mark." 50-CFR-14 explains in detail what that marking needs to be while the Lacey Act does not.

It's vague, but I guess at the very least labeling it "live harmless reptile" would be disingenuous and may fall under a "false account" as anything that can bite can cause harm.

I honestly never thought of that, but you raise a good point. I continue using "Live Harmless Reptiles" out of habit, even after finding out what the actual minimum requirements were. My thinking was that it would reassure that the reptiles contained inside weren't venomous dangerous. I never wanted to put nonvenomous at all on my packaging as I know some knubskull will just misread it and cause a panic.

 

[ForkedTung]

The Lacey Act does not specify that required labeling practices, just that packages need labeled. 50 CFR 14 is what specifies labeling requirements. This is official documentation from F&W who I contacted a few years ago to get the specific requirements instead of everyone guessing what Lacey Act was talking about. Their is no "perhaps" or "maybe" with this. This is what the government officials provided when questioned for specifics.



F&W is who handles everything because they are the division of the government who handles wildlife. Reptiles fall under wildlife. 50-CFR-14 does say to "Conspicuously marking the outside of each container" which does mean "plainly mark." 50-CFR-14 explains in detail what that marking needs to be while the Lacey Act does not.



I honestly never thought of that, but you raise a good point. I continue using "Live Harmless Reptiles" out of habit, even after finding out what the actual minimum requirements were. My thinking was that it would reassure that the reptiles contained inside weren't venomous dangerous. I never wanted to put nonvenomous at all on my packaging as I know some knubskull will just misread it and cause a panic.

I think I understand what is required now and will change my shipping practices to reflect that.
It really will be better for all concerned as now the shippers will still know there's an animal, just won't need to be freaked about what kind, and if someone does open it then, I'll have the, quantity, common/scientific and a big ole "Non-venomous" invoice contained within.
Thanks for directing me here Stephanie, and I hope that everyone seeing that other thread with questions will come here as well.
Kyle

 

[FireStorm]

The Lacey Act does not specify that required labeling practices, just that packages need labeled. 50 CFR 14 is what specifies labeling requirements. This is official documentation from F&W who I contacted a few years ago to get the specific requirements instead of everyone guessing what Lacey Act was talking about. Their is no "perhaps" or "maybe" with this. This is what the government officials provided when questioned for specifics.



F&W is who handles everything because they are the division of the government who handles wildlife. Reptiles fall under wildlife. 50-CFR-14 does say to "Conspicuously marking the outside of each container" which does mean "plainly mark." 50-CFR-14 explains in detail what that marking needs to be while the Lacey Act does not.

I wasn't trying to argue with you about F&W being able to regulate shipping...just trying to point out that the Lacey Act does specify that other divisions of gov't can make the specific regulations regarding the labels, since ForkedTung was asking how those regs pertained to the Lacey Act . Also that putting an invoice inside the box and the lablel "Wildlife" or "Live Harmless Reptiles" on the outside doesn't seem like it would fill the requirement. Maybe I'm reading it wrong or something. Now if the invoice was in one of those clear plasic holders on the outside (even if it was folded so you could only read the addresses) then that seems like it would be ok.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Also that putting an invoice inside the box and the lablel "Wildlife" or "Live Harmless Reptiles" on the outside doesn't seem like it would fill the requirement.

This is something that has been debated somewhere before.... and the law is a little vague

The invoice, packing list, bill of lading, or equivalent document must be securely attached to the outside of one container or package in the shipment or otherwise physically accompany the shipment in a manner which makes it readily accessible for inspection

If your invoice is on top of the styrofoam and the first thing you see when opening the box.... would that not make it readily accessible for inspection?

dunno

 

[FireStorm]

I guess it depends on how you define "readily accessible"...you could probably argue either way. I'd just hate to have the box opened just to see the contents list. Recently I had a shipment delayed (I was recieving it) because Fedex saw the "Live Harmless Reptiles" label and wanted to see exactly what kind of reptiles it was... they opened the box but wouldn't reseal it and the shipper wasn't notified until the next morning. They said that because the label wasn't on the outside it was incorrectly packaged. However, that could've just been that particular Fedex location's interpretation, too.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Also that putting an invoice inside the box and the lablel "Wildlife" or "Live Harmless Reptiles" on the outside doesn't seem like it would fill the requirement. Maybe I'm reading it wrong or something. Now if the invoice was in one of those clear plasic holders on the outside (even if it was folded so you could only read the addresses) then that seems like it would be ok.

Placement of the invoice is up to interpretation. I like using the clear plastic holders to put the detailed invoices in. FedEx even provides them free. You can also order opaque ones that specifically say "Invoice" or "Packing List" so that the contents remain private unless opened. When I was working for PETsMART while college all of our reptile/fish shipments came in with a "Packing List" attached to the outside of the container.

 

[snakechaarmer]

I'm a little confused - I've received packages at my home from people that were FedEx certified and vice versa, not business to business. Can you ship directly to someone or not? This was a little confusing

 

[FireStorm]

I'm a little confused - I've received packages at my home from people that were FedEx certified and vice versa, not business to business. Can you ship directly to someone or not? This was a little confusing

I don't have my waiver yet (in the process of getting it), but I believe it says that shipping must be business to business only, and to be considered a business it must be zoned business so home based businesses don't really count if they are zoned residential. I think people just ship to people's houses anyway and ignore the rule...

 

[snakechaarmer]

I don't have my waiver yet (in the process of getting it), but I believe it says that shipping must be business to business only, and to be considered a business it must be zoned business so home based businesses don't really count if they are zoned residential. I think people just ship to people's houses anyway and ignore the rule...

Right, but if they know that said individual is certified to ship reptiles, and they ship to a home address anyway, can't they refuse shipment? I'm just confused because I know i've received things at home and vice versa, like i said, not business to business, without any issue and have never heard that before. weirrdddd

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Right, but if they know that said individual is certified to ship reptiles, and they ship to a home address anyway, can't they refuse shipment? I'm just confused because I know i've received things at home and vice versa, like i said, not business to business, without any issue and have never heard that before. weirrdddd

Business to Business is required for reptile shipments, not all shipments. FedEx doesn't check each and every one of your shipments for whether or not it's a reptile shipment to enforce it, but reserve the right to refuse your package and take your waiver away if you violate it.

The waiver says:
"J. Company acknowledges that all shipments tendered to FedEx under this Agreement are for Business to Business delivery only. No residential deliveries are allowed under this Agreement."

Some people claim that it includes home business, but if you are considered a residential delivery (zoned residential), you are not exempt.

 

[snakechaarmer]

Business to Business is required for reptile shipments, not all shipments. FedEx doesn't check each and every one of your shipments for whether or not it's a reptile shipment to enforce it, but reserve the right to refuse your package and take your waiver away if you violate it.

The waiver says:
"J. Company acknowledges that all shipments tendered to FedEx under this Agreement are for Business to Business delivery only. No residential deliveries are allowed under this Agreement."

Some people claim that it includes home business, but if you are considered a residential delivery (zoned residential), you are not exempt.

By "things" i meant reptiles. Sorry.
I just don't understand how if this is the rule, that it's only business to business, that people can say "Shipped FedEx to YOUR door via Overnight Delivery". It's just baffling. I guess everyone kind of breaks this "rule"?

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I think some of the original FedEx Certs didn't have the business to business stipulation. Others either a) Didn't read their waiver, b) Read their waiver and didn't understand, or c) Don't care. I was under category b at one point as I didn't realize home business wasn't exempt and zoning was what mattered.

 

[snakechaarmer]

That's really crazy. I wonder why they would make such a stipulation. I wonder if anyone has just ignored it and done direct to home shipments if this is a new addition and gotten in trouble?

 

[Khaman]

There is word that door to door my soon be allowed due to UPS providing the service. This is months old talk from an AE that has moved up but he seemed to know what he was talking about

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Placement of the invoice is up to interpretation. I like using the clear plastic holders to put the detailed invoices in. FedEx even provides them free. You can also order opaque ones that specifically say "Invoice" or "Packing List" so that the contents remain private unless opened. When I was working for PETsMART while college all of our reptile/fish shipments came in with a "Packing List" attached to the outside of the container.

just throwing in $0.02 (or maybe it's just $0.01?)
those 'clear plastic holders' are called Packing List Envelopes.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

There is word that door to door my soon be allowed due to UPS providing the service. This is months old talk from an AE that has moved up but he seemed to know what he was talking about

I've been pushing it. Throwing UPS in their face is how I got better rates. If they do it, I want a new signed waiver. I'm not just going to take their word for it, that's for sure.

those 'clear plastic holders' are called Packing List Envelopes.

 

[justindh1]

Thanks for making a thread so useful as this one. I am going through the process as we speak and just setting up my box for testing packaging. This has help a whole lot. It's seems a little over board when they don't even cover loses but you do what you got to do.

After reading this thread and the others, maybe someone should make a thread on tactics for getting better shipping rates, lol!

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

After reading this thread and the others, maybe someone should make a thread on tactics for getting better shipping rates, lol!

When RE gets back up and running with UPS you can throw their rates at your FedEx rep. That's how I was able to negotiate better rates on my account.

 

[justindh1]

Hey, I just wanted to let everyone know that you don't have to wait 24-48 hours to call the representative to get the account number to bill the shipment to. You don't even have to call him to get it. Just call fed-ex and get transferred to the live animal department. They will transfer you to the person at the test packaging department with the account number for billing. You may even be able to just get transfered straight to there, thats just the way I did it.

I set up my account yesterday and called about an hour later and they actually told me what I needed to do and gave me the account number for billing with-out asking. At that time they also gave me my representatives number. I called him and gave him a heads up about what I was doing and to get acquainted with him. He had never done something like this but said he would help me anytime if I had trouble. He had a gecko when he was a kid so that's gonna help me out. It will help that he knows me when I get through the packing test and have to work with him and the waiver.

I think that this could possibly cut out a couple days at least if not a week. You don't have to wait a day or 2 to call. Also people won't have to worry bout being able to get a hold of the representative or wait to be contacted back. They don't have to deal with the representative until you actually pass the packaging test and have to get the waiver.

Hope this helps out others in the future.