Inquiry SHIPYOURREPTILES.com reference a non-existent 'Reptile Waiver' and/or link?

[JCCS]

Also, after looking back at my posts, I cannot see any place in which I put words in your mouth. I did make some observations of my own, but that's totally different.

 

[neilg]

dont mean to beat a dead horse but i obviously still question SYR's bold claim on their website that only their FedEx account is specially certified to ship RESIDENCE-TO-RESIDENCE. seriously now no one else but accused 'stakeholder' me questions the following claim?

http://www.shipyourreptiles.com/en/g...pping-tracking
"2) With us, you can ship to and from residences. Standard FedEx reptile certifications only allow business-to-business shipping."

well, at least SYR quickly explained why the sticker link in my opening doesn't work; cuz its internal to Fedex intraweb only, not the internet.

in interest of wildlife welfare, i do go onto question the very premise that once an account's specific test packaging has been Fedex approved for shipping harmless reptiles or whatever animal life applicable, that the account is then Fedex certified for shipping harmless reptiles for any 3rd party's packaging under said account.

thus propose that a 3rd party Fedex-approved packaging model is inherently flawed unless there is any document (ie, like the approval doc which mod Dennis posted) to back the claim; that FedEx has allegedly approved only one shipper account among all out there for shipping reptiles residence-to-residence.

such claim would be evidenced in the approval wording from Fedex where it indicates the PACKAGING (included in the test application shipment to the fedex package test site) was either approved for shipping the animal life or not.

why not have it indicate whether it is approved for institution-to-institution and/or residence-to-residence? since afterall, that is the claim being made.


and that is why i was hoping that SYR - for the benefit of the hobby community as well as wildlife safety - had pursued getting similar packaging certification with test packaging application - and thus hopefully, approval -specifically indicating somewhere on the app/approval for organization-to-individual or individual-to-individual or at very least, 3rd party-to-3rd party shipments of harmless reptiles.

bottom line is unless shown otherwise, Fedex appears to certify specific packaging for reptiles, aquatics, hazardous materials, etc (whatever the product) if it passes the Package Testing/Design test without the intended actual hazardous (or in the case of animal life, perishable) materials enclosed in the first place, shipped to their testing center.

as for SYR's claims on its website, i continue to question third party packaging is 'Fedex certified' for 'shipping harmless reptiles' when it can differ so vastly in design, weight, materials, etc from 'original packaging' which passed Fedex testing.

indeed, SYR's discounts and self-funded insurance offered are quite attractive and unique to our niche hobby thus far bar none, so... happy shipping yall! =D

note: i'm not in reptile nor shipping biz nor even a breeder/reseller; jusxt a hobbyist who became concerned about reptile shipping issues from fedex personnel reactions to live animals being tendered in boxes over the past couple years, and then now have further started questioning 'certification' claims after seeing a DOA (Kathy vs Martha case on FC BOI) within the past month alone on FC even though SYR service was used.

so.. what is Fedex certifying for reptile shipping - the packaging, or the account - anyways?

Neil, if your location is accurate, you won't have any issues shipping out of the FedEx on Palm Ave. in Signal Hill. I drop off boxes there all the time with all of the appropriate labels. They always comment, "oh no, more snakes?". The staff there knows they can accept live reptiles and are super cool about it.

You can also save 40% on your next box with SYR using the coupon code DME40.

sounds great, Dan! (doesn't a FCer's location need to be accurate in order to comply with FC rules? just wondering=)

would love to hear that some who ship reptiles all the time are getting 50% 70%, OFF with SYR etc; that would be even sweeter! =D

 

[Snakesatsunset]

The standard live animal certification is for regular businesses and people who go through it to be able to ship business (A REAL BUSINESS registered and tax paying, not John Doe Reptiles hobby breeder that doesnt have a tax id.) to business. In other words pet store to pet store, breeder to pet store, pet distributor to pet store, etc. Breeder to FedEx center. Not john doe to jane doe that found each other on internet.
SYR negotiated terms with fedex to allow THEIR customers (SYR CUSTOMERS) residence to residence shipping. They negotiated an exemption, and permission.
FedEx allows animals counter to counter, but FedEx Kinkos, FedEx office are not FedEx companies, but individually owned businesses that focus on shipping fedex and have the right to refuse animal shipments. That is why when you pick hold for pickup you make sure the address is for a fedex center. not kinkos or office.
Also SYR worked hard and long to be able to offer you the oppurtunity to ship reptiles residence to residence as part of their contract with fedex, and they are not in any way obligated to show a fauna poster the paperwork as there may be proprietary terms, terminology, policies, terms, and conditions they may not want people to know about and copy or try to. Their relationship with FedEx is a milestone in providing you guys with cheap shipping.

 

[gila7150]

Mike's post says it all.

 

[neilg]

one stretch to go from specific approved reptile packaging to approved reptile shipping reseller account.

one further to go from standard approved b2b to self-proclaimed only approved r2r fedex rept shipper.

the latter SCREAMS antitrust violations galore to any similar competing rept ship service.

 

[Snakesatsunset]

lmao - conspiracy theorist alert!
the business they run is a 3rd party shipper for reptiles via fedex.
they negotiated terms with fedex and fedex allowed them adfter probably months of negotiating and by contract, to ship residence to residence....if no other company has done that, maybe fedex was not happy with their pitch. SYR is fully responsible for their shipments with no liability on fedex I bet. But antitrust? lol - no one ever said no one else can do it.... maybe no one wants to or works as hard to get it done and succeeded?Maybe this should read "fedex doesnt allow other 3rd party shippers door to door residential shipping, and it's not fair! " I have no idea why you would try to witch hunt SYR and then bring up an old post as well cause we disagree with you.....

 

[snakesareawesome]

. I don't foresee an antitrust investigation into the animal shipping business lol thanks for the warning bud, can you crawl back under your rock now?

 

[Docglock]

law student.... smh

 

[moghue]

Sounds kind of like Neil is bitter about something or is trying to either start up his own shipping buisness or already has and is looking to hurt or lay doubt in peoples minds about SYR to draw people to him. Just my thoughts no conspirasy theory.

 

[Focal]

I have shipped plenty of packages from residence to residence and never had an issue in that regard with SYR. I also have had one package DOA due to FedEx holding the snakes in bad weather for two days in Memphis. I followed the guidelines provided from SYR and they did not hesitate to send me a refund for what I think was a significant amount. Not one road bump after following their pre-established guidelines. I am certified to ship reptiles and have my own business account but refuse to use it because SYR is still better than dealing with FedEx directly. Neil, you are probably not quite the believer because you may not have tried this service yet and/or have not been on the bad side of a FedEx mistake. Until you have, I'm sure you aren't the foggiest about what the SYR service provides and the lengths they go over just the smallest glitch in the process.

 

[seanleigh]

Not sure why this thread was even created...? Literally hundreds of thousands of people have shipped through SYR over the years and close to none of them have ever had a problem. Only once have I ever heard of someone having trouble dropping off their package at a hub and after calling SYR the hub accepted the package. So OBVIOUSLY if their waiver was bs there would be ALOT more problems with fedex rejecting live animal packages. Whenever I ship I always call and have a fedex driver pick up the package(s) from my residence (I live about an hour away from the nearest hub so its easier to just pay the pickup fee) and not once have I ever had a problem with it. So I would really like to know why you are trying so hard to start a problem that's not even there? Is it some sort of personal vendetta against SYR? Are you trying to drive people away from SYR so they will ship with RE instead? I know RE took a really big hit when they lost Debbie, but if they are trying to get their customers back (not saying this is them doing it) this certainly isn't the way to go about it... And if its not that, what is it?

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Dang. I had not heard RE lost Debbie. She is awesome.

That said, I do not think this has anything to do with RE. At least, I sure hope not.

 

[seanleigh]

Yeah, a lot of people weren't very happy... I can't imagine they would have someone go after their competitors on fauna like this but I know someone else mentioned that that could be the case and the OP didn't say anything about it so I just listed it as a possibility. I doubt they would do something like that though... They are really nice people.

 

[favrielle]

Dang. I had not heard RE lost Debbie. She is awesome.

That said, I do not think this has anything to do with RE. At least, I sure hope not.

When I first read this thread, I will admit I wondered the same as seanleigh. Especially since RE and SYR operate under the same general terms, as far as any of us know, but SYR is the only one being called out here.

Debbie left ReptilesExpress the first week of May. Many people (including myself) have since decided to switch to SYR.

Are her leaving RE, customers switching to SYR, and the true purpose of this thread at all connected? Who knows? Either way, this thread is ridiculous.

 

[neilg]

never even had any knowledge of RE until multiple repliers herewithin assumed that group 'biz' mentality of 'blame the competitor' to shift the discussion away from SYR altogether.

the purpose of this thread was INDEED to question the claims set forth in writing on SYR sticker/note and now given the response from Robyn and i quote 'because it isn't for you, sorry'.

so what is there for the consumer to know?

- you can purchase shipping on their account from their website using either your own packaging or theirs and it somehow be fedex approved for shipping harmless reptiles

- you can't use other rept packaging-approved except for b2b, as SYR is the only approved r2r fedex rept shipper.

the latter claim on SYR's website, SCREAMS antitrust violations galore to any similar competing rept ship service.. and no lol i dont have any biz interest, nor even consider myself a litigious citizen, but rather, simply have zero tolerance for false advertising especially when it involves shipping wildlife under bold claims like that with no documentation or actuall certification to prove it.

milestone, invaluable, awesome, reliable, generous, indeed i don't doubt for a moment SYR is all that and more, but i for one like to know bold licensure/certification/approval claims as they relate to Fedex procedure are actually... TRUE.

cuz anyone can just make videos about how generous their service is especially in self-funded insurance payouts yada yada but when wildlife is being shipped under a 'fedex approved' in packaging to the contrary resulting in deaths and claims galore, one has to wonder where also is the underlying liability for negligent enablement (of reptiles being transported as if in fedex-approved packaging when in actuality far, far from it).

of course everyone, even ruthless/crappy wholesalers are gonna keep using and abusing - the service cuz of the huge discounts ie 40% OFF SHIPPING and SELF-FUNDED INSURANCE PAYOUTS as long as your packaging had the insulation, right # holes and generally only 1 40/60hr heatpak per box, purdy much.

my point is if one is going to commercialize the reptile shipping industry yet reptiles are dying day in day out despite the claimed reptile-approved packaging/shipper (only for SYR claims process to find it actually wasnt approved and thus unclaimable and thus unapproved for shipping precious live animals in the first place) what is actually being done about it by the service - wildlife deaths in transit under its awesome r2r account - aside from boasting about inside waivers, r2r exclusivity, volume, and self-funded insurance payouts?!

 

[ShadowAceD]

Neil, since you seem to have an issue with reading comprehension ... SYR has never claimed they are the only service allowed to ship residence to residences (psssst ... Reptile Express is allowed to do it too because ... you know, they went though the proper steps too). They are only stating their waiver has been given that exception from FedEx.


2) With us, you can ship to and from residences. Standard FedEx reptile certifications only allow business-to-business shipping. <--- This, at no point, says "We are the only ones allowed to ship to and from residences. It says they have an exception over the Standard FedEx Reptile Certifications.

As pointed out by Mike, the Standard FedEx Reptile Waiver does not actually allow for residence to residence shipping. It is for business to business, and while people have, historically, done residence to residence anyway with the Standard Waiver, some have lost their privileges because of it, that is where companies like SYR and RE come in.

If you were willing to do any actual research you would actually find threads on SYR, back in 2009 or 2010, prior to conflicts of their original contract with UPS, where FedEx certified shippers were miffed because they were not actually allowed to ship residence to residence.

As for antitrust violations ... you do not understand antitrust laws as well as you think you do.

FedEx is the only non-airline specific carrier in the U.S. that allows for the shipping of snakes since UPS made that a violation of their TOS some years back and the USPS has not allowed it for an incredibly long time. That means that FedEx is allowing a privilege to its customers, it is not offering a business that operates solely on the fact you can ship snakes, or reptiles in general.

They further have allowed Reptile Express and All Pro Shipping (SYR) to let third party individuals use their FedEx approved labels to ship snakes anywhere that they are not prohibited within the U.S.

SYR is not FedEx, it is not the actual shipping company. Anyone who wants to start a third party shipping company with FedEx to ship snakes can take the steps to do so, therefore, a monopoly on the competition simply does not exist.

In case you are not following, that means antitrust violations do not apply here, plain and simple and if they applied, it would be FedEx who is guilty (if they chose to gave only SYR these exceptions and no one else, even if they jumped through the hoops and made the negotiations needed to get there).

All that being said, SYR has shipping standards that people must abide by, both for general shipment and for insurance claims. If these standards are violated, you can lose your ability to use SYR and you can lose your insurance claim.

They sell all supplies needed that approved by FedEx for use and they proved instructions for how to use said supplies. Reptile Express is the same way and other companies sell comparable types of shipping supplies.

Properly packaged animals rarely die unless it is by error of FedEx and if people report those not properly packaging animals then SYR does something about it. It is not within their best interest to ignore such things.

Again, you would know this if you ever bothered to try and contact Robyn or anyone else at SYR before starting all of this nonsense.

Your claims of reptiles basically dying all day every day due to "negligent enablement" (<---- not a word, by the way) is erroneous and has no statistics to back it up.

Irresponsible people exist, they are going to do as they wish, when they wish, they are not a reflection on the entirety of the responsible people using this service.

I have never lost an animal in transit (knock on wood) and I know many others who have not. Sadly, mistakes do happen, but the majority of the time, it is an error by FedEx, not the individual who shipped the animal.

They are not false advertising, you just do not understand that of which you speak despite your best attempts to come across as an in depth intellectual.

By the way, you brought up Reptile Express unsolicited.

one thing i like about reptilesexpress is they actually provide a PDF of their Live Animal .

Now, you can either continue to sit here and yammer on about things you think you understand that you clearly do not, or you can go ahead and start your own third party shipping company and go through all the steps RE and SYR has gone through the obtain specific waivers for the shipping of approved live animals through FedEx and then let us know how that goes for you. Of course, I assume you are going to tell us absolutely everything about the process and post every e-mail, record and post every phone call and any other thing pertinent to the transparency you seem to think every company should be providing.

 

[FosterHerpetological]

Get em Diem.

 

[neilg]

actually i *mentioned* 'shipping purchased at a site like SYR (or reptilesexpress for the matter) has actually been 'coordinated and approved by the FedEx Live Animal Desk'? in my very opening post , but have no experience with them nor had any knowledge about their procedures and the very first reply to this thread likewise purdy much equated RE & SYR as 'reptile shipping facilitation service'.. which prompted further comparison and indeed it turns out RE does provide a PDF of their waiver hence 'that's one thing i like about RE' and likewise what i 'like about' SYR as likely mentioned at least once before in this thread if not already in the OPost is they actually offer insurance but bummer they claim to have 'special certification' from Fedex to resell R2R reptile shipments unlike 'standard certification' which only allows B2B.

^i don't buy that claim and am sorry for the masses brainwashed into doing so just between the allure of 40% off shipping and potentially THOUSANDS of dollars in claims paid out if your precious reptile dies in transit.

theres always room for improvement and indeed would be reassuring for a simple proof of alleged special certification; i just called Fedex and was told that without the approved shipper's account number, its impossible for them to verify what a shipping reseller identified by website or biz name claims and the rep even went on to reiterate they have a strict policy of not shipping live animals except for approved shippers that can't just ship for the public under their account or service because it 'defeats the purpose of being approved'.

i didnt even bother to get into asking about approved packaging vs approved account but that could be another issue alongside i'd look into if only i had even more time on me handz.

as it is im only on here on FC for a couple days or weeks at the most at a time in any whole six month period; my interest in reptiles is more for their welfare, not biz at all but yea.. bidness is bidness, aint it?

 

[rgurley]

Neil seems to be the type of guy who will "investigate" and make dozens of phone calls, poking the hornets' nest until he screws it up for the rest of us. Maybe someone calling FEDEX over and over and over with questions about reptiles, packaging, and procedures until someone there who fears snakes and who hates snake keepers will decide maybe this is bad policy and will kill the last method we have of safely moving our reptile pets around the country.

You aren't really an animal rights operative are you?

 

[hhmoore]

To your question regarding whether the reptile shipping certification is for an account or packaging, my response is "Yes". They are not the same...nor are they wholly separate. When sending in the packaging, they are checking the packaging. If one change packaging, one is supposed to submit the new packaging for examination. I did not feel it necessary to submit different test package for the various sized boxes that I used, because I stuck with the same product line. Same weight cardboard from the same company, same insulation board - no problem, IMO. However, if one submitted their test package with ziptied snake bags, then changed to using plastic containers, I believe that the expectation (by FedEx) would be a followup sample for inspection. (I know my packaging report listed how my animals were contained/protected - I sent a snake bag, and 2 different deli containers). I suspect the same would be true if one changed to a thinner box, or different style of outer packaging.
I suspect that many, if not most, people do not comply with that aspect - thinking that they got their paperwork, so it doesn't matter.