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Should personal issues be drug into the BOI or any other forum for that matter?

D

dragonflyreptiles

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I have seen lately that some issues that I consider to be personal are brought into BOI and other threads. To me this is not acceptable.

For 1, I do not have the time to read 30++++ minutes of personal grievances to get the the "meat" of the business issue.

For 2, Common courtesy would just lead me to believe that the BOI is meant for Business deals and as such a personal issue is irrelevant (and sometimes hurtful).

Maybe I have lost my mind and the BOI and other forums should be full of personal issues so that its impossible to get to the subject in a timely manner, that way very few have the time & energy to actually read the entire thread and make a decision as to how they feel about the business issue at hand.

Maybe I'm just overly tired from this flu bug, but either way, I just don't have the time to wade through all of the "he did, she said and so and so" to get to the actual BOI Business topic.

Mud slinging is one thing, heck its going to happen, been involved there myself but honest down to earth purely personal issues are just not want I feel should fill up post after post.
 
When my brother used to call me names, I would plug my ears and say over and over, "Lalalalala Lalalalala". It would drive him crazy!
 
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For 1, I do not have the time to read 30++++ minutes of personal grievances to get the the "meat" of the business issue.

For 2, Common courtesy would just lead me to believe that the BOI is meant for Business deals and as such a personal issue is irrelevant (and sometimes hurtful).
Click to expand...

I would agree Wendy. If the personal issues are irrelevant. Most of the time it is easy to decide what is relevant and what is not. Sometimes it may not be as easy to decide when you feel strongly about a issue.

In that case you might find some leeway and push the discussion in the relevant direction.

 
Marcia, I like the lalalala idea! Never had a brother or sister so I am lacking in those coping skills!

Dennis, Id like to push it to the relevant issue but I have been reading for about an hour with off and on breaks and haven't found it yet :(. So I guess that will have to wait until I can figure out what is supposed to be going on.

Just had to vent, I wish things could be more black and white in some threads: Joe Blow did this and its wrong, instead of all the other stuff.

Ive always been told that if you want your point to be taken well, submit it well. Leave out anything that doesn't matter and get to the point as fast as possible. Then you can expand later on trivial issues once your main point has been well received and understood by others.
 
As a general rule, no they should not. The exception would be when they are relevant. Sometimes they are. They may point to significant characterological issues that may influence whether one would deal with them or the veracity of what one party says.
 
I can take a hint.

Look, Tere and I have spent MONTHS trying to figure out WHAT would be appropriate to include SHOULD we ever even make something public. What to leave in, what to leave out, and will things still make sense to a 3rd party. Like I've mentioned, our greatest concern was with regards to our reputation as newcomers in the industry as well as slander and libel that have been committed against us. When "personal" issues are a component of the slander and libel that are committed in a close-knit industry such as this, I DO feel that the victims are justified in addressing these issues publicly, ESPECIALLY when the victims have absolutely NO idea WHOM these lies have been told to.

I don't expect ANYONE to agree with the decision I made to post what I did, but I am not about to apologize for my judgment on this. Nor do I really care what the heck happens from here on out. I said what I felt needed to be said. Ban me, fine me, shun me, criticize me until your last breath. I just don't care anymore.
 
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Paul, I actually never got to any of your post including personal information so I have no idea what you said.

What I am really saying is that the "primary issue" be short and to the point, then if the personal information backs it up in some way maybe add it later so that the issue is right up front for all to see and get to easily.

Heck, I don't know what the issue is yet, my head hurts too bad to stare at the screen long enough to get through the other stuff so far but I will try again tomorrow to get to the post(s) that contain the information about the incident.

So this was not really about you but about my lack of being able to get to the point that provoked the postings.
 
Paul Like I said else where I heard the story 2 weeks before it hit BOI live @ 5, so the way Im figuring it there's got to be at least 30 or so that knew before it hit the air-waves, grape vines gotta love them But No, personnal stuff should not be aired unless it is pertinent to the subject at hand imho
 
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It depends, in my mind, what you consider "personal information" and how it may play into the original deal. I've no idea what particular thread launched this subject, so I'm responding in general.

As an example, if part of a deal was delayed payment because the buyer informed the seller of some personal issues that caused the seller to cut the buyer some slack, then that might be included in the original layout of how the deal came to be.

If information that indicates a pattern of behavior by one or other parties in a BOI thread then that's relevant. i.e., Sal Tornambene being sued for scamming in his siding business much as he does in his reptile business, or Bill Leverton shill bidding on another site. It's relevant. It goes to general character or previous history.

I don't think that superfluous information, no matter how damning, should be brought up. i.e., ancient history drug rehab.

Now, I'm speaking as to RELEVANCE to the BOI. I think people have the right to bring up as much information as they deem necessary in a thread as long as it's true and accurate, and if they're violating TOS that's on the mods. If they actually hijack their own thread, that's on them.
 
dragonflyreptiles said:
Paul, I actually never got to any of your post including personal information so I have no idea what you said.

What I am really saying is that the "primary issue" be short and to the point, then if the personal information backs it up in some way maybe add it later so that the issue is right up front for all to see and get to easily.

Heck, I don't know what the issue is yet, my head hurts too bad to stare at the screen long enough to get through the other stuff so far but I will try again tomorrow to get to the post(s) that contain the information about the incident.

So this was not really about you but about my lack of being able to get to the point that provoked the postings.
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IMO the information in that thread is all relevant to the point. However it would have been MUCH better if the point had been posted first ("we intend to prove that..." it only takes one sentence) instead of after all of the gigantic posts that seemed to be going nowhere.
 
Serpwidgets said:
IMO the information in that thread is all relevant to the point. However it would have been MUCH better if the point had been posted first ("we intend to prove that..." it only takes one sentence) instead of after all of the gigantic posts that seemed to be going nowhere.
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Sometimes the personal stuff may be needed but when you have to wade through it to get to the issue it is time consuming and difficult.

I finally found the "what the issue" is mid morning and see that there is IP evidence. Too bad that wasn't the very first post. Then the dribble drabble of he said, she said to whoever could have followed.
 
In Paul's First Post

This is taken from Paul's first post on the Mike Shoemaker thread on the BOI.

Mike has lied repeatedly, committed auction fraud, slandered numerous people in the reptile industry, and is continuing to do so. Unfortunately, there’s really no short way to explain all of this while still allowing it to make sense.
 
Everyone tells a story in a different way, it's easy to see what way YOU would tell it, and prefer to read it, but other people have different ways of doing things. Yes, I think it would have been more effective to begin with the actual reason for the entire thread, and perhaps some of the stuff could be left out but in this case it was a choice and I do believe that a lot of the points are relevant.

I suppose I can see this from a different light, having been exposed to the machinations of a pathological liar once. I understand the need to go into all of the personal details because there is an insecurity regarding WHAT might have been SAID or LIED ABOUT to WHOM? IF you don't know what falsehoods might be spread, the best thing to do is to lay out all your dealings with a person in as clear (and concise!) a manner as possible. Of course some people have the gift of conciseness (I'm not one of them!).

AGain, I'm saying that relevance is difficult to quantify, and in the thread at hand, I can see how the details shared have been considered relevant. I would have to go into a similar level of detail if I needed to warn my friends on this board and in this hobby about the person I knew who was a pathological liar and did her best to ruin my life. The problem with liars who have this level of deceit, it's difficult to explain how you know they are lying if you do not share the details of the incident, the details of the discovery, and so forth. Lucky for everyone here, she's not into herps, or at least she wasn't the last time I saw her, 15 years ago. (The police were involved in HER denouement.)

Again, I agree that a short one-liner that stated the actual charges might have been the most relevant way to begin the entire thread, but that is a personal choice as to the manner in which someone wishes to tell their story.
 
dragonflyreptiles said:
Sometimes the personal stuff may be needed but when you have to wade through it to get to the issue it is time consuming and difficult.

I finally found the "what the issue" is mid morning and see that there is IP evidence. Too bad that wasn't the very first post. Then the dribble drabble of he said, she said to whoever could have followed.
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Wendy,

I'm sure that Paul and Tere did what they thought best and wanted to warn people that they believed there was much more to the story than the bidding issue. Could they have presented the information more concisely or in a more easily digested format? Probably. Could they have left out other names? Most likely. I don't mind that my name was brought up but someone else did and justifiably so. Neither of us was asked or informed in advance that we would be named and that part actually added little. Again, it could have been done better, but hindsight is always 20-20, or as we used to say when I was in medicine, the best instrument to use is the retrospectoscope.

Looking back on those posts 24 hours later (using the retrospectoscope :p), I understand why Paul and Tere chose to present the personal drama. It led up to the other allegation and was the basis for it.
 
Saladragon said:
This is taken from Paul's first post on the Mike Shoemaker thread on the BOI.

Mike has lied repeatedly, committed auction fraud, slandered numerous people in the reptile industry, and is continuing to do so. Unfortunately, there’s really no short way to explain all of this while still allowing it to make sense.
Click to expand...
Ahh, that part was forgotten by the time I got to the end of the huge posts. ;)

The only other change I might have made was posting it in a new thread, with a "bad guy" topic line, instead of piggybacking on a "good guy" thread.

Again, not saying you guys should have not posted what you posted. I think it was all relevant and worthwhile information. :)
 
We asked

Paul Sage asked Rich exactly how to go about this...the response that we got was to use the existing thread. It's stated clearly in the BOI posting rules that you should always use an existing thread when posting on a particular person.

As for the other comment, I do understand. But at this point, it's quite obvious that no matter HOW we would have gone about it, someone would have found fault...

Paul and I both did what we thought we needed to do. Could we have done things differently, yes. But as stated before in this thread, hindsight is 20/20.
 
Wendy,
Since I am not "in the circle" so to speak and don't really know what specific thread(s) some of the above comments are referring to, I initially had difficulty relating to the question. Perhaps because of this I am now interpreting the question differently from the majority. I think I know now what you mean when you say "purely personal issues". I might adjust the wording to align more to my own personal experience and call it "truly personal problems". But this might be a negligable distinction. Anyway, I think I do know just what you mean now, at least in part. There have been some instances where replys were not made to serve the intent of a thread, but to serve some personal agenda. These contributions may be time and space wasters. But, I am not optimistic that this practice will be eliminated. I still have the choice to scroll right on by them if I choose.

Shasheena, your comment above regarding different ways of telling the same story; took the words right out of my mouth.
 
I'm amazed and horrified at what I just finished reading in the BOI thread. I think Paul and Tere did the best job they could in presenting their information. It's such a weird experience that I think if it happened to me I'd feel compelled to post all the details because I'd need to convince people that it really did happen. It's terrible how some people have grown up thinking they can abuse and disrespect those who try to help them. Tere and Paul were trying to help this guy and he walked all over them. In this case, I think the personal details were relevant and they certainly would make me think twice about doing business with someone with such low personal ethics. So, in this case, I feel the personal details were necessary and that they were intertwined with the biz aspect of Mike's activities. JMHO
 
Wendy, I completely understand your line of thinking, however, sometimes personal information is necessary to show their true character, ethics, and values. I would be outraged if I took someone into my home and their deteriorating character had an effect on my children.

Some of us have also been known to stand up for perceived bad guys, because of personal knowledge that has absolutely nothing to do with a particular thread or business deal. Some would call it blind loyalty........I prefer to say "it's personal" and has no relevance in any venue.

I have no issues with Mike one way or the other. Would I say he's a bad guy guy, not completely, there's still more to the story.
 
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