Signature releases

[Traci1]

Then I'll be camping at the curb, holding a harpoon gun, next delivery day. (harpoon gun is for the truck, not the driver in case that was not clear)

LOL, glad you clarified that one! hahahahah

 

[Chris@TSE]

I don't doubt it but it has not happened to me. Like I said, I hate to miss a package because I was emptying my bladder. Or does a shipper expect a customer to hold it from the time the tracking site says "on vehicle" or "out for delivery" until delivery at 11 or 12? Or maybe I should just use a jug in the front room while waiting. Let's face it, we expect parties to be reasonable. I'm perfectly willing to do all that if the shipper guarantees that he will sit by the phone waiting for my call without doing anything that might distract him from taking it the moment it arrives. No bathroom allowed either. Reasonable? Not for either party.

So which is better for the animal? Sitting on a freezing cold or brutally hot delivery truck all day because I was using the toilet or sitting on a similarly cold or hot covered porch for a couple of minutes?

Stolen? That's on the customer 100%. The customer signed the signature waiver and it was delivered according to his wishes.

What a seller/shipper requires for a guarantee is proof the animal was delivered and received by the customer. Such a release simply does not make that possible, and I am sure you can agree. Even if a customer with such a release were to call us within a given timeframe after delivery to say they received the animal and simply left a message, thats more than sufficient.

I understand whatyou are saying perfectly, and it does depend on each customers personal situations and the competence of their local servicesdrivers. Unfortunately there are those who use such releases to abuse the system, and unfortunately there are those who use such releases simply because they do not have the same respect for live animals as you or I. Therefore to protect both customer and seller, additional measures must be taken into account. Looking at it from a sellers standpoint I am sure you could agree.

 

[DragonCharm]

Then I'll be camping at the curb, holding a harpoon gun, next delivery day. (harpoon gun is for the truck, not the driver in case that was not clear)

Don't matter what you hit, as long as it stops.

So which is better for the animal? Sitting on a freezing cold or brutally hot delivery truck all day because I was using the toilet or sitting on a similarly cold or hot covered porch for a couple of minutes?

Same situation here. I have a sign on the front door to leave inside my back door, in the hallway, if no answer. My hallway gets no colder than 50 in the winter (usually around 55-60) and no warmer than 80-85 in the summer. Worst case scenario if they leave it on my front porch its covered and it stays about 10-20* warmer than the outside air in the winter and it's protected from the wind. In the summer the front porch stays about 10* cooler than the outside air and is in the shade. If my rabbit can live on the porch all year round it's safe for a reptile for 10 mins.

 

[WebSlave]

There are always multiple ways to look at this. A couple of weeks ago I had a package delivered to one of my customers that went to the wrong address and just left on the porch. Fortunately that person discovered the package and contacted my customer. I don't remember whether the tracking info said a signature release was on file or not, however, in cases where it is, this is much more of a likelihood then without the waiver. If someone actually signs for a package, a misdelivered package is highly unlikely. Also, when I set up the package info online, I specifically mark it so that the customer is also notified of the delivery. Just in case it IS delivered to the wrong address, they will get a notice via email telling them that it was delivered somewhere.

The live arrival guarantee from the shipper has to be flexible. If the delivery info shows that the package was delivered at 9:30 am, even with the "signature release on file", and the customer calls at 10:00 am with a problem, then of course the live arrival guarantee will be upheld. However, in a similar circumstance as above, if the customer calls at 5:30 PM, instead, then the implication would be that the package was delivered at 9:30 am and left on the porch until the customer got home from work to discover it. In a case like this, yes, the customer's end of the arrangement may have voided the live arrival guarantee.

I specifically require someone to be present at the destination address in order to receive the package. I do everything in my power to insure that the animals get there safe and sound. But the recipient also has some responsibility in this process as well.

Now, that being said, I did have an interesting situation recently. I sent a fairly large order to a customer in a double sized styro lined container. According to FedEx's tracking info, they attempted delivery TWICE ( one around 9:30 am, then again around 1:30 pm) with no success. The customer called me up later on that day to tell me that he had left his daughter at home to accept the package and she is claiming that she must have been down in the basement when the FedEx driver showed up. He had to drive over to the FedEx terminal around 4 PM or so to pick up the package. As it turned out, even with cold packs enclosed, some of the snakes were dead upon inspection by the customer.

In a case like this, what would YOU do about it?

 

[Chris@TSE]

two failed delivery attempts and the customer is stating their daughter was in the basement not making an effort to accept the deliveries?

Every effort on your part, AS WELL AS THE CARRIER (which is not very common!), was made to ensure the safe timely arrival of the parcel. Even a second attempt! The customer quite simply did not effectively hold up their end of the transaction. If you know you have a live parcel coming, nine out of ten people would make one hell of an effort to accept said parcel in person. Most of the hobbyists I know will spend mornings pacing waiting for their deliveries. Hell, even when I purchase something for my personal collection to this very day I'm as anxious as a child Christmas morning. Leaving a child to accept such a delivery is a bit irresponsible, especially if they make no effort to be upstairs around the time of expected arrival.

I hate to be the hardass here but that would violate our terms for sure! I would not replace them. Period. I may however offer a slight discount on replacements to ease their loss along with some "words of wisdom" regarding any future purchases they may make and the proper steps to take when accepting live parcels.... whoever the seller may be.... But I think I would be pretty firm on this one. Good luck Rich.

 

[DragonCharm]

In a case like this, what would YOU do about it?

That's really a tough call, especially since we don't know if the daughter really was absent or if Fedex even showed up at all. For all we know they were across town and not going to make it so they fudged in a missed delivery in the system. Since we know Fedex isn't going to reimburse you for them it's either you or the customer that will eat the cost. Unless we're talking about very expensive snakes I'd probably offer replacements shipped at his expense. I wouldn't probably do a full refund in cash since it's easier to stomach the loss of the cost on the snakes rather than the loss of that much cash. That and the customer wants his snakes, not the cash......if he wanted cash he wouldn't have bought snakes. Now if I didn't have a direct or comparable replacement in stock to replace his losses I'd offer the chance to upgrade to a more expensive animal if he pays the difference. Also another factor is that Rich said "fairly large order." I'd probably work extra hard to make sure he was satisfied since he already spent a good deal of cash, might spend more in the future and if he's a big buyer he might brag to a lot of his friends that you're a great guy, etc.

Now if he was pigheaded and refused animals as replacement in favor of cash instead I might change my offer. Maybe either stand by the guarantee or offer to split the loss with him 50/50.

 

[Chris@TSE]

In my experiences a carrier does not list "delivery attempt made" unless it was actually made.... ESPECIALLY a second time. Perhaps if it was just the first I would have thought the same, but the second attempt is really what made my final call on this one. I stand by my previous statements.

 

[DragonCharm]

In my experiences a carrier does not list "delivery attempt made" unless it was actually made.... ESPECIALLY a second time. Perhaps if it was just the first I would have thought the same, but the second attempt is really what made my final call on this one. I stand by my previous statements.

I guess you're right since it was 2 attempts, that would be unlikely.

 

[WebSlave]

Oh, FedEx had been there, sure enough. The driver left a "failed delivery" notice stuck to the door. At least for the first attempt. The customer apparently didn't know about the second attempt until I sent him a copy of FedEx's log.

Oh, and get this. The customer tried to pin the blame on me saying I used a box that was TOO BIG. First time I ever heard something like that. I've heard of people having problems from using a box too small, but TOO BIG? That's a new one for me.

Anyway, yeah I am going to replace most of the snakes that were lost, but I'm grumbling about it. I went and made some changes to my Terms and Conditions page to exactly cover this sort of circumstance in the future, as I will not cover such a loss again. There has to be a point where my responsibility ends and the customer's begins.

 

[DragonCharm]

Oh, FedEx had been there, sure enough. The driver left a "failed delivery" notice stuck to the door. At least for the first attempt. The customer apparently didn't know about the second attempt until I sent him a copy of FedEx's log.

Oh, and get this. The customer tried to pin the blame on me saying I used a box that was TOO BIG. First time I ever heard something like that. I've heard of people having problems from using a box too small, but TOO BIG? That's a new one for me.

Anyway, yeah I am going to replace most of the snakes that were lost, but I'm grumbling about it. I went and made some changes to my Terms and Conditions page to exactly cover this sort of circumstance in the future, as I will not cover such a loss again. There has to be a point where my responsibility ends and the customer's begins.

Going by what you just added I'd be inclined to tell him to screw off......well unless of course there were a ton of sales coming from him in the near future. If there wasn't a good financial reason to do it I'd pass on shipping him replacements. It's unreasonable to require you to replace them if they made 2 legit attempts.

I don't get the box thing, makes zero sense......about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.

 

[Traci1]

Oh, and get this. The customer tried to pin the blame on me saying I used a box that was TOO BIG. First time I ever heard something like that. I've heard of people having problems from using a box too small, but TOO BIG? That's a new one for me. .

the ONLY way that would be a problem IMO, is if there was empty space in the box that wasn't filled with "cushioning material", allowing the snakes to be flung around inside. But I've seen your packaging and I seriously doubt that would be the case in this situation. From your side of the story I don't think the guy deserves anything!

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

He missed the delivery attempt. He's out of luck. You do what you know is best for you business (you know, I don't) but do make sure your Terms specifically state maust accept package on FIRST delivery attempt now.

As far as what to do about the ring and run drivers~ I finally figured that one out. When I know I am expecting a package of live animals I put a note on my front gate that says:

FED-EX
PLEASE RING BELL SEVERAL TIMES
I don't hear well,
Thanks

You'd be amazed how many guys just stand out there playing Jingle Bells on my doorbell! I've only got a slight hearing loss~ but I've discovered that when you put a note out explaining that you don't hear well and requesting extra rings~ they do it.

But then I'm pretty serious about getting my packages~ Rich knows that. Remember the box you sent me on 9-11-01? I got that box, and got it on that military base too! It's a good thing the gate gaurds knew me!

 

[hhmoore]

A number of interesting points have been brought up. In my experience receiving animals via these carriers, I can only recall one or two times that I MIGHT have been asked for a signature. I can recall more times, in fact that I came home to a box that I wasn't expecting. As far as I know, there is not a signature release on file. (I certainly didn't fill one out). Like many others, I make a point to be home waiting, and have 3 dogs that usually alert me to the arrival of the truck. Despite this, I have been surprised - walking outside to find the box just sitting there (usually inside, thankfully). I now habitually request that the sender designate the box to be held for me to pick up. When this is done, I get the animals earlier & they are not subjected to sitting on the truck for several hours awaiting delivery. Fedex has been GREAT about this, and has always held a box so designated. UPS usually attempts delivery despite the designation, much to my frustration...still trying to sort out what works and what doesn't here (any suggestions??). DHL ignores the designation, and ships to the wrong house, on the wrong street, in the wrong town; and still tries to bill me when I get dead animals. (I'm sure you can deduce my feelings about DHL).

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I specifically require someone to be present at the destination address in order to receive the package. I do everything in my power to insure that the animals get there safe and sound. But the recipient also has some responsibility in this process as well.

I agree, Rich. My TERMS are specific that the receiver must be available to accept the package or the 'live guarantee' could be voided. When I send the tracking information email notice I even tell people "to insure the health and safety of your gecko(s), please check outside the door periodically since some carriers don't bother to knock or ring the doorbell".

I don't worry at all about anything live being delivered to me, but I am more afraid of the box being put back on the 100+ degree truck for the rest of the day than to have it left at my customer's door. I always check my shipment status first thing when I get up in the morning, and if the details state that the package was left at the door I simply give my customer a call. If there is no answer, and something happens to the animal(s), then they bear the responsibility... not me or the carrier.

 

[KathyLove]

I really make a big point of telling my customers that the drivers are in a big hurry and will not stick around long. And that I will only guarantee live arrival if somebody accepts the shipment on the first delivery attempt. Since a lot of my customers are beginners and are really excited to get their new pet, I actually probably have them scared to go to the bathroom until 10:30 or whenever it arrives, lol! I too have suggested that they make a BIG sign to put on the door saying that they really are home and to knock loudly.

Sometimes they are sitting out on the porch waiting, and unfortunately, there have been a few times they waited outside, only to have a "delivery attempted" notice show up on the website. Any of the company drivers will sometimes lie so they won't get in trouble for being late, or so they hope. I also had one or two delivered to the wrong address, but that has been very rare.

I always look up customer delivery time guarantees online before shipping, and ask the customer to call me if it hasn't arrived by then, so I can call the 800 #. I always track online, but sometimes the info is not updated for hours after the delivery, so that only works sometimes.

But what I really try hard to do is to get them to go down to the shipping office and pick them up. Then most problems are avoided and everyone is happy. I even give them a small discount on their shipping (since I don't have to pay extra for signature required, or rural delivery, etc, and probably won't have to replace anything) when they agree to pick up at the office.

If my customer left a child in charge, who stated she spent part of the day in the basement, especially after all of the big deal I make about accepting shipments, then I would not feel very obligated to be responsible for their irresponsibility. But in reality, if I valued them as a future customer, I would probably give a steep discount on replacements, if not replacing them for free. Just depends on the customer and whether it was somebody who I thought was worth having as a future customer.

 

[Jim O]

In follow up to Kathy's point about drivers not wanting to get in trouble for not being late I can share an anecdote. A number of years back I was awaiting some animals shipped to me from Don Hamper. He was using Airborne prior to its acquisition by DHL. I was home all morning, and when the specified time for delivery came it was noted in the computer as "delivered". I have several dogs and no one gets near my house without them barking, not to mention that I had been downstairs the entire time awaiting the package. I called Don and he started trying to track where the driver may have left the box. Meanwhile I start running around my house and all of my neighbors' houses looking for a box, ringing doorbells, etc. Finally about 45 minutes later that yellow van arrived with the box and a driver as nonchalant as could be. Funny, I never saw him again...

 

[KathyLove]

I had a similar incident about a month ago. My customer and his kids were sitting on the front porch waiting. Soon after 10:30, the website said "delivery attempted", so I called my customer. We called DHL numerous times and made the driver come "back" out. When he arrived and was quizzed by the customer, he said he received the package only 45 minutes before the due time, and was told "just make sure it is there on time, no matter what you have to do". He read between the lines to understand that it meant to note it was on time, whether it was or not.

This has happened several times with DHL, but not very often. And they have always sent the driver back out again, after I spent a lot of time on the phone convincing them that their driver made a "mistake". Although I haven't had the problem with FedEx yet, I have only used them a few dozen times, and my customers usually go to FedEx to pick up. I have used DHL at least 1,000 times since 1996, so can't really compare. But I have heard stories of all 3 of the big companies doing the same sort of thing. It usually works out OK if you stay on top of the situation, but it means more time, work, and frustration / stress for both me and my customer.

 

[WebSlave]

Earlier this week when my FedEx driver was making a pickup, I asked him about this conflict with the "signature release on file" and the impending extra charges for getting a signature at deliver. He said that it is his understanding that once the extra charges go into effect this Fall, that ALL of the signature releases on file will be removed from the system. According to him, there are three levels to the signature options that will be offered, but was hazy on the exact details. Or maybe I'm just hazy on remembering what he said...... I suspect that much of this is going to depend heavily on the individual drivers making the deliveries anyway.

Fact of the matter is that nothing about this shipping process is ever going to be perfect. As the originators of the packages, we can only try to do the best we can and try to cover everything we have any control over. Anything outside of that control probably needs to be spelled out in detail in our Terms and Conditions concerning what our responsibilities are as well as those of the recipients of the packages. Then maybe after 100 years of doing this, we will have experienced every possible eventuality, and know how best to handle each of them. After that, the only challenge we will have to do is to figure out how to actually get each of our customers to READ those Terms and Conditions.....

 

[sass]

My problem is with lazy drivers....I took the morning off a few weeks ago waiting for a live delivery...They usually come at 10 am (when I get them).....new driver decides not event to stop at my house (as I am off the path and he would have to walk more then 5 steps to my door). Then post on the shipping web site an unsuccessful deliver attempt....NOT!! I have 3 dogs who hear everything and bark to let me know, not to mention I was sitting in my living room waiting for the package. I gave the shipping company a piece of my mind.....don't like liars......

 

[Milwaukee Reptiles]

I can see it now....

"To complete your animal purchase with us and begin setting up shipment, please fill out this contract, sign it, date, it, fill in your SSN, birthday, and Mother's maiden name, have it notarized, and send us the pink copy...."