Silkwormfarm - Very Bad Guy!

[Paperkid]

I placed an order of silkworms with Nick Danyi back in October 03, 2005 and have yet received my order or my refund! I am not alone in this situation either. I have a list of 31 people who were owed a refund too by Nick. Ten of these people on that list have contacted me telling the same story as mine. The main problem is Nick will not respond to anyone's e-mails or provide us with a number where we can at least know where we are at to expect a refund. Nick will not even give any of us an idea of when to expect a refund and my gut is telling me that he has ran out on us.

The list I refer to is a group of e-mails that can be seen as part of a header on the fourth e-mail down.

Below are some of the e-mails from Nick sent to us, and at the very bottom is a e-mail I sent to Nick. I left out all other e-mails I sent to Nick because most of them were never answered, and none of them were answered after December with the exception of one and that is listed at the bottom. To me this feels just like the situation I am having with TSE. That thread can be found at http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78572 . I'm guessing that 2005 was the year of the rip-off artist?!

David Gaithe


----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 2:49 PM
Subject: Silkwormfarm.com - Catalog Order Confirmation - Silkwormfarm.com - Catalog - 419915



Your order has been entered into our system. Thank You.

Customer Info: Order ID 419915
Sequence No 3070
Order Time 10/03/05, 03:49:38PM
Customer Name Larry Willis
Email [email protected]
Payment Method Card Holder: Larry Willis
Card Type:MasterCard 5581-XXXX-XXXX-1944
Expire: 09/06


Billing Address Larry Willis
RazorbackExotics
2368 Lakeside Ave
Springdale, AR 72764-7115 USA
479-927-1324
Shipping Address Larry Willis
RazorbackExotics
2368 Lakeside Ave
Springdale, AR 72764-7115 USA
479-927-1324
Ship Comment: FreeShipping
Order Summary Product Option Unit Price Qty
4 Shipments - SUBS (SKU: 4 Shipments - SUBS)
QTY: 1600 SUB Worms (400 per shimpent)
How Often: Weekly
Add Chow: No Chow Needed


$ 110.00 1
Charge: $ 110.00

Charges: Product Charge $ 110.00
Taxes $ 0.00
Shipping Charge $ 0.00
Total Charge: $ 110.00


Order Comments




-------------------------------------------------------------
Silkwormfarm.com - Catalog www.silkwormfarm.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Silkwormfarm
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 7:15 PM
Subject: silkworm order


Larry

I do apologize for the delay in contacting you.

We have recently had some issues with a few batches of weak worms. This had affected the sub-adult and adult populations. Though it does look as though the problems have subsided we still have some outstanding sub-adult and adult orders. We want to make sure that all those who have been waiting for us to recoup are taken care of first. We will make sure that you are taken care of and that your order is processed as soon as possible. I again do apologize for the wait and we do anticipate all orders can be completed by the week of the 17th. I thank everyone for their patience in this matter and will do anything possible to help. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Nick




----- Original Message -----
From: Silkwormfarm
To: 'Larry Willis'
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 7:45 PM
Subject: RE: silkworm order


Things are looking a little better. The only issue were having is catching up on pending orders. I will let you know when I am able to ship your order out.



Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,

Nick



----- Original Message -----
From: Silkwormfarm
To: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 4:01 PM
Subject: silkworm orders


I wanted to update everyone on the status of their orders.



The issues we have been dealing with are sick silkworms. This has caused a significant number of casualties in shipping and a large number of dying silkworms when they arrive. Unfortunately, this sickness can also easily spread to the other batches of silkworms. This was the other part of the problem. This also infected the newer worms that were being raised. The worms would seem to be 100% but when they became sub-adults would start showing signs of the sickness. I assure you that precautions were taken but this was still not enough to stop this from spreading. If you had received any of these worms I also want to assure you that it was strictly a sickness that silkworms get and does not affect the animal that consumes it. Since the precautions that were used were not affective we are forced to resort to a different tactic. We have decided to scrap the entire stock and start everything fresh. Even though we realize this is inconvenience for our customers we feel that receiving dead worms is even more of an inconvenience. We will be working as fast as we can to complete all orders and will only ship if the worms are 100%. Please let me know if you have any questions and if there is anything I can do to help.



Thanks,

Nick



----- Original Message -----
From: Silkwormfarm
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 6:48 PM
Subject: update




This update is sent to the entire list of customers that have sub-adult orders pending. This may be an email that some have already received; if this is the case you may choose to ignore the rest of this document.



I realize it has been a little while since my last update and I apologize for any and all delays. The worms were showing signs of the problem we had just gotten over. In response to this we have decided to change facilities so that we can better control any problems that may arise. We have also decided to make an option available to anyone who would be interested. Pending orders can choose to have their worms substituted for eggs. This will allow us to ship out immediately. Please let me know if you may have any interest in this option or if you would prefer to wait.



Thanks,

Nick



----- Original Message -----
From: nick
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:59 PM
Subject: Silkwormfarm Refund Update



This evening I finished putting together a list of all orders that were placed with Silkwormfarm but were either not fully completed or they were never able to be fulfilled.

With this list, refunds will begin being sent back - as many as possible per week - until every obligation on the list has been met.

My intention from the very beginning of the trouble I ran into was to get either a refund out to everyone or the complete order.

Unfortunately, Instead of giving up on getting worm production back to normal, I kept trying - and dug myself into a considerable hole. I kept buying supplies and kept repeating the cycle with the same nasty result. By the time I was ready to give up; I exhausted all of my resources.

In early January, I made a mistake and cut off communication from all of my customers. (and my family) I needed to find a source of income and begin the process of putting things back together.. dig out of this hole.. And start making everything right.

Just so everyone knows, I NEVER had any intention to run away from this responsibility. The best way to describe it was that I needed to leave the situation and collect myself.
My method may have been horrible.. and I apologize for keeping everyone in the dark.
But, I promise that I will come through and make everything right.

-----------

Starting April 4th, I will begin sending refunds in the order they were placed.
Every Wednesday thereafter, I will keep sending as many refunds as I can afford, each week, until the entire list is completed.

If you need to get in touch with me, please send your email to [email protected].
I haven't checked any email since I left in January, but I will start going through all the email I have received. Also, I will begin checking email once a week. (I don't currently have access to a computer during the week)

Very soon I will have a new phone number that I will post in case you need to get in touch with me.

My brother Joe has graciously allowed me to open up the silkwormfarm webpage and also let me use his computer for email and web updates. He's helping me with getting this organized and also for moral support.

When I have more contact information, I will be sure to post it on the website.

Again, I want to apologize for the delay in letting everyone know what was going on.
I want to thank everyone for being patient and understanding.

Nick Danyi





----- Original Message -----
From: nick
To: Larry Willis
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: update


Larry,

I sent an email explaining what we were planning to do as far as a refund. If you had not received that email I will forward a copy of it to you. I will also expedite your refund as your are obviously pissed off. Your are not the only one that has been waiting some have waited over 7 monthes to get anything but are being patient but if you would like me to put you at the top of the list I will.

Nick


________________________________________________________________


----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Willis
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: update


Nick,

you are very right - I am pissed-off a little. I think that I and anyone else on the list who sent you money should be, be it over seven months ago or over five months ago (I have been waiting for nearly seven months). The fact is that you ignored your customers, and instead of swallowing your pride and telling the truth, you ran out on your customers. This may of not been the case if you had kept updating us periodically with just about anything to say - anything! You lost faith and trust in your customers who supported you to understand in your hardship. Now, it is your customers that have lost faith and trust in you and that trust has to be won back very slowly. I did receive the e-mail from you with your explanation of absenteeism. Of course, I was appalled by your explanation to say the least and I do hope that you do more than plan to honor your own words. At this point I am sure you of all people can understand that placing trust in those words will be very hard for anyone after what you did to us. You can not get upset with those of us you have been keeping in the dark for so long that you owe money too. After all, you purposely burned your customers plain and simple when you decided to run out on them with no explanation! Even now your customers have to play a waiting game with you and the only current information coming from you is if one of your customers write to you. Some of us are not going to feel too comfortable in writing to someone who just burnt us only to find out that you are ignoring us again. No one wants to feel that they are being played the fool twice from the same person in a row, so please forgive those of us who do not write you for an update. Some of us also faced hardship last year and this year too and could of used either the feeders or the refunds. Also, there were some in this business that would of helped you with at least providing you with the silkworms to fill the orders that were needed. It really is a shame to see a business that had so much potential and such enormous creditability to go down the tubes because it's owner would not reach out for help inside the community. If you would had just asked for the help - any help - and you would of been very surprised! Pride is sometimes a very wasted emotion indeed. Plus, if you would of just explained yourself to your customers right when you knew there was going to be a problem then I am sure you would of found us a little more than understanding and a whole lot more patient. After which, you could of send a little updating to everyone on the list that an obligation to another customer has been fulfilled and a thank you to that customer for being so very patient. At the very least this would show that you are not only doing something about your own situation, but that you are trying your best to honor your own words. It makes things a little more personable and believable when you are on the side of waiting for that refund and earns back some of that trust. Have you considered asking anyone on the refund list if they would be willing to take their whole order of silkworms at one time from you? You could contact someone like Wholesale Silkworms (only an example) to see if they would be willing to do a deal with you that might be more in your favor as far as over all cost goes, opposed to shelling out the money you owe to your customers currently. Some business that have been in the exact situation like yours will turn their customers over to another business but pay for the orders that are due to those customers. In this way everyone wins! The customers get their orders and a new place to shop, the failing business gets to keep it's good standing name and no longer any outstanding obligations or debts to most of it's customers, and the business that receives the new customers gets potentially new customers and new revenue. Also, they have their own guarantees that will cover those customers that the customer must be made aware of before the switch. At least you are not having to cover anyone with your own guarantees if you were to have just purchased the silkworms yourself and had them sent to each customer.

No, I do not want nor do I think it it's fair to place me at the top of the list. In fact, you should be very ashamed of yourself for asking me such a thing simple because I am "pissed off". You have an obligation to all of your customers and all of your customers should be treated fairly and equally, be it that they spent only a few dollars from you to a couple of hundred dollars from you, be it they have been waiting only five months or be it that they have been waiting over seven months. Actually, if you have customers that have been waiting for over seven months then I would say that you knew about your situation before I placed my order and you still took my money when you shouldn't have. I should of either received an instant refund right after I made the order, or I should have been notified of your situation and at the least been give the option of either a refund or to wait. You know, it would help all of us a great deal if we knew what number we represented on your list for refunds.

Sincerely,
Larry Willis
David Gaithe
RazorbackExotics

 

[Junkyard]

Wow, keep us informed if does start to refund everyone or if he is just making another excuse.

 

[Chameleon Company]

David,
Sorry to hear of what has happened. His website is currently shut down except for a page promising refunds. Where was he operating out of ? Not making an excuse for him, but I thought that I heard that his colony got hit with a deadly virus back in the wintertime. Thanks.

 

[CheriS]

I do want to add some info to this situation. I agree it is bad when someone takes money from others and does not deliver anything, BUT.... that was never any of the silkworm suppliers agenda the past winter/spring when this disaster struck all of them.

MANY of them got caught in the import of diseased eggs which also infected their facilities and equipment. They are only 2 importers for Silkworm eggs that I know of in the country and both them got hit. The extend of damage that would be done from this was not known while it was happing through out the US.... everyone thought it would be easy to remedy by starting over with cleaning everything and new eggs, but once this virus is in a location......it lives for months/years on surfaces and in the air, carpet, flooring....... it is everywhere and usually nothing short of moving and starting over will all new equipment and clean eggs will resolve it.

Many suppliers thought and were lead to believe from importers, they could start over and get the order out and some did then ship out small silks..... which did not show the virus until later stages of the instars (the virus affects different stages depending if the eggs were infected or the worms got infected AFTER hatching and also what sex of the parent moth was infected) When the shipped out what they thought was okay small worms, they just infected the homes they sent them too and all worms that went to those later, even if healthy were infected. Its a huge mess.

At least Silkworm Farms stopped sending out ANY worms as soon as they were aware of the problem. That can not be said of some of the silkworms farms who filled those orders for peoples money they took with infected worms and eggs, KNOWING they were infected!.... making those locations they were sent to infected and also the worms that the animals were eating were infected with secondary bacterias. Although the virus can not be passed to the animals eating them, secondary bacterial infections can. Alas, they did not owe anyone money, but they let owners fed their animals sick worms that may have compromised their current health and no one is sure of the long term effects to their liver or other organs from this. I think Silkworms Farms should at least be commended for doing the right thing in that aspect.

I can see, knowing what everyone in that business was being told from the importers than it was the thought process of waiting another few weeks and growing up new batches and you can fill orders and get going again...then going through the same cycle again and again with hopes of clear, healthy stock that they were replacing. It was so confusing when the breeders were seeing worms getting past the stages that prior ones died in and thinking they had healthy stock, only to find out they displayed the same virus at later instars stages and were back to square one. I can also see where someone that did this as a business was trying to get back on their feet, genuinely thought they would and got financially way in over their head. Which he has admitted too

I am really sorry to see a situation like this happen to any business, but I think it important to make others aware it was not deception on the part of the business, owner and that this farm has stated he is trying to make good to others with getting loans and taking another job to pay people back. Beating him up for communicating this to you is not helping the matter and he is not and has not still been talking people's money to deceive them since he knew there was a problem last winter

The measure of a good business or person and not that they never have problems/complaints, but how they face up to those problems/complaints and deal with them when they do occur. The same goes for the measure of a compassinate person ( which some also can choose not to be)

I think we should still give this person the opportunity to follow through and make things right... that is not saying that what happened was right, but that it did happen unfortunately and it was not from deception. If he does that, then in view of the fact that he did not do as some other farms and shipped them diseased worms to feed their animals... possibly harming the animals, that he should be accepted as an honest person who tried to do the right thing, make some wrong judgments/decisions against overwhelming unplanned disaster, but made things right and did the right thing in not infecting others when he could have avoid the debt increasing by doing that.

 

[Junkyard]

So we now have a whole lot of infected animals that are being bred, traded, and sold without any knowledge that the virus/bacteria is being entered into the homes of unsuspecting silkworm customers?

Great, that is a whole new problem that is not needed. Granted it is good that Silkwormfarm is not passing on the problem and is doing whatever is possible to refund customers, that I am pleased to read. What we have a new problem that is now so wide spread and we do not know all the details of this virus and how the secondary bacteria will affect our animals. IS there anyone studying this virus in detail?

 

[CheriS]

Michael,

Let me clarify so there is no panic, as I said above, the virus itself can not be passed to reptiles, it is unique to the silkworms... but secondary infections that the silks can get due to utterly decaying inside before they die from the grassiere virus, coming into contact with dead or dying other silks and added stress which increases bacteria risk with shipping them with the virus can be passed to the animals that eat them..... it may not affect them right away, no one is sure, but MANY reptiles got sick after eating silkworms that later were found to be infected. Vomiting a slimy fluid (bearded dragons just almost never regurgitate) and other symptoms that are commonly seen with ingesting tainted food. The virus basically causes the internal system to liquefy, and decay before they die off.

No one is sure of the long term effect, as far as I know, no one has studied it as silkworms were not a big feeder food until recently. But just from what we know of others, like crickets, look what eating tainted food such as moldy corn base feeds can do. The crickets do not get sick or show any problems, yet the animals eating them slowly build up to toxic levels of alpha toxins in their liver and it eventually kills them.

Sorry, I did not mean to get people concerned that their animals are in danger or this virus can infect reptiles. MY point was, unlike others that sold off sick stock to fill orders and be entitled to keep the money they had for pre-orders, Silkworm farms and a few others, took the hit and did not do that. This silkworm breeder tried to restart with healthy stock and fill orders, when that failed he again tried to restart with different eggs, but his facility was already infected...... BECAUSE an importer in the US, sold him infected stock! HE tried again with moving locations and still had a problem as did many other silkworm breeders that were going through the same thing at the same time.

I just felt that people should hear all the facts of how this situation came about as it was unique in that it was an "act of god" (or poor human attention by others) started it and not just simply one place taking someone's money and being deceptive.

I had won an eBay auction last year from someone in New Orleans, paid with paypal and two days later, hurricane Katrina destroyed the place. 2 weeks later I got an email from the seller with an apology that they could not get into their home yet due to the floods, but expected that the perishable item I had bought was gone and that they did not have the money or the product then to repay/get to me, but would when they could.

I was able to verify their address was in the section that was under water, that they were using a computer from a library to get in contact with me, so I emailed them to forget the order, not worry about the money from the purchase and that there was additional funds in their paypal account to help them through this terrible time. Sometimes we have to have some compassion for those that have problems we are fortunate not to have and understand that when someone was not being unethical or dishonest, we need to be more flexible.......... it's a terrible position to be in

 

[Paperkid]

Update refund!

I did finally receive a refund from Nick as of 6/2006. Sorry it took so long to post it! I suppose the delay in this update could be summed as "fair is fair".

However, I am still getting e-mails from people that have not been refunded and they can not get Nick to respond to their e-mails. Below is one of these people who asked me to post their situation for them. Really, there is no excuse that Nick or anyone else for conducting business in this manner. Some other theres might say that I or we should understand Nicks situation better and to give him time but I say time is always the killer especially in situations like this. Nicks first and by far most important priority right now should have be/been to his customers. I for one still believe that Nick had no intentions of ever refunding anyone. He has had enough time to work (I presume at a family car dealership in Ohio) and to reimburse all those that he has made a victim of. Nick and all those like him lack the understanding of what their actions do to this industry and the trust to those that end up as their victims. I believe they do not care about anyone but themselves except how much money they can make in the shortest period of time. They thrive off the money, grief, misery, and pain, of others. Like I said before there is NO EXCUSE in the situations they create and any supporters of Nick that come on here for a rebuttal of what I am saying to add their support of Nick are just as sick as he is and all the other A-Holes that do this.


----- Original Message -----
From: Christine
To: Larry Willis
Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: Update! - SWF refund


Hi David,

Okay, this is as much as I have (apart from a Paypal receipt) on what's been going on here on my end. As you'll be able to see, I ordered a subscription for 1600 sub-adult silkworms to be delivered every 2 weeks for 2 months, for which I paid $125 up front. I felt okay with doing this at the time as I had been ordering from Silkworm Farms for a few months and had been pretty happy with the service and quality of the product.

I got an email almost 2 month after my order that said the worms would be ready to ship "shortly". And obviously, "shortly" never came. I then waited, and probably forgot about it, which was why it took me until March to email and see were the heck my worms were.

Since then, I have been waiting for a refund that has never come, and in all honesty, probably won't. I want to let people know what kind of person Nick turned out to be, and hopefully others in this mess will step forward and let their "stories" be heard.

I give you full permission to post this on the BOI thread on my behalf.

Thank you for all your help, and please keep me updated.

-Christine Roubion


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:06:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Silkwormfarm.com - Catalog Order Confirmation - Silkwormfarm.com - Catalog - 414742



Customer Info: Order Summary
Order ID 414742 Product Option Unit Price Qty
Sequence No 3041 4 Shipments - SUBS (SKU: 4 Shipments - SUBS)

QTY: 1600 SUB Worms (400 per shimpent)
How Often: Bi-Weekly
Add Chow: Add 2LB Premade (1/2 LB per shipment)



$ 125.00 1
Order Time 09/26/05, 08:06:01PM Charge: $ 125.00
Customer Name Christine Roubion Charges:
Email [email protected] Product Charge $ 125.00
Payment Method Card Holder: Christine, Roubion
Card Type:MasterCard

Taxes $ 0.00
Billing Address Christine Roubion

Metairie, LA USA
504-XXX-XXXX Shipping Charge $ 0.00
Shipping Address Christine Roubion

Metairie, LA USA
504-XXX-XXXX
Ship Comment: USPS - Priority Shipping $2.80 BASE Total Charge: $ 125.00


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Silkwormfarm" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: update
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:39:15 -0500


Currently the worms that are growing are at a small juvenile state. (approximately ¼ inch) This will take about a week to become large juveniles and another week to become full sub-adults. All juvenile subscriptions please let me know if you would prefer the bigger juvs or if the smaller juveniles will work. All worms do seem to be in good health. The sub-adults will be ready shortly please let me know if you have any questions.
Nick

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Christine" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 18:36:15 -0800 (PST)

Hey Nick,
I haven't heard from ya'll since November, and the last update I got said the orders were almost ready to be shipped... this was nearly 4 months ago. I tried going to your website to see if there was some kind of update, but it I get the message that the page cannot be found. I don't know what's going on, but at this point, I'm ready for a full refund for the subscription I bought and never received. I spent over $100 on silkworms and it doesn't look like I'll be getting them any time soon, and I think I've been more than patient. So let me know when you get this and how we can go about taking care of that refund.

~Christine Roubion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:59:20 -0600
From: "nick" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Silkwormfarm Refund Update


This evening I finished putting together a list of all orders that were placed with Silkwormfarm but were either not fully completed or they were never able to be fulfilled.

With this list, refunds will begin being sent back - as many as
possible per week - until every obligation on the list has been met.

My intention from the very beginning of the trouble I ran into was to get either a refund out to everyone or the complete order.

Unfortunately, Instead of giving up on getting worm production back to normal, I kept trying - and dug myself into a considerable hole. I kept buying supplies and kept repeating the cycle with the same nasty result. By the time I was ready to give up; I exhausted all of my resources.

In early January, I made a mistake and cut off communication from all of my customers. (and my family) I needed to find a source of income and begin the process of putting things back together.. dig out of this hole.. And start making everything right.

Just so everyone knows, I NEVER had any intention to run away from this responsibility. The best way to describe it was that I needed to leave the situation and collect myself.
My method may have been horrible.. and I apologize for keeping everyone in the dark. But, I promise that I will come through and make everything right.

-------

Starting April 4th, I will begin sending refunds in the order they were placed.
Every Wednesday thereafter, I will keep sending as many refunds as I can afford, each week, until the entire list is completed.

If you need to get in touch with me, please send your email to
[email protected].
I haven't checked any email since I left in January, but I will start going through all the email I have received. Also, I will begin checking email once a week. (I don't currently have access to a computer during the week)

Very soon I will have a new phone number that I will post in case you need to get in touch with me.

My brother Joe has graciously allowed me to open up the silkwormfarm webpage and also let me use his computer for email and web updates. He's helping me with getting this organized and also for moral support.

When I have more contact information, I will be sure to post it on the website.

Again, I want to apologize for the delay in letting everyone know what was going on.

I want to thank everyone for being patient and understanding.

Nick Danyi

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 06:30:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "Christine" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Silkwormfarm Refund Update
To: [email protected]


Hello,
I ordered a silkworm subscription from you in October 2005 for a total of over $100 and the last time I heard anything from you was in early April of this year. I was told that we would all be getting our money refunded, and here I am, 8 months later, with nothing to show for that promise.
I know that $100 might not seem like that much money compared to what you owed some of your other customers, but to someone who doesn't have lots of money, it's a big sum.
Now, I don't have it in me to be as truly nasty as I'm sure some other people have been, but that doesn't mean that I'm not upset about this and that I'll just sit here forever waiting paitiently and quietly..... I really would like a full refund from you, and think I have been patient enough in waiting as long as I have without stirring anything up. I hope you can fulfill your promise, and soon.
Regards,
Christine Roubion











Larry Willis <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Christine,

yep! There were a lot of those who paid for those silkworm subscriptions and I was one of them too. It really doesn't matter if it were $25.00 or $200.00 for it's the principles of the matter that is most important at this point. At the very least we can, and I wish all of us would, have our voices read and heard on the BOI.

I think the only reason I 'might' of been fortunate enough to receive a refund was because I told Tyler of Blue Beast about my dismay happenings with Nick. Tyler was one of those that really tried to promote Nicks business on Fauna Classifieds and he told me that I should give Nick a try. Tyler was or still is a friend of Nicks at that time and Tyler did some trades with Nick, as well as, took some of Nicks' silkworms to the reptiles shows to sell and further promote Nick. Interesting enough, and really no surprise to me, is that after I contacted Tyler of what was going on with Nick I never could get a hold of Tyler again; I had really thought that Tyler was a friend of mine too. However, after the talk with Tyler, and a few more words with Mr. Nick, I did end up getting that refund. I was left wondering if Tyler had something to do with that refund because since Tyler had promoted Nick and suggested that I use Nick; it might have been possible that Tyler was a little worried that he would be dragged into Nicks mess. I will never know for sure.

I only call it a story because of the expression "telling your side of the story" is kind of integrated into my mind. You are right it is not just a story it is the factual truth of lies and blatant deception, all of which can be documented.

It really is a shame that you live outside the country as it does really help to be as close to the offender as possible. It's really hard to fight a internet fraud across borders. Besides, it is even harder to put up too much of a fight if the offender will not respond. However, this does not mean that you should not tell what happened to you either and I think that this is probably the most important part to all of this at this point.

How about you cut and paste all of the important parts to all the e-mails that you have and make sure that you cut and paste all the e-mail headers with times and dates too. Also, give a general outline of what happened, how it happened, and where you are now with the situation with Nick. The e-mails are only there to back you up and serves as your proof. You will also need to show your full name. Basically, you are writing it all out just like you would if your were doing the posting yourself. After you get everything together send it/them to me and I will look at it, write you back if I have any questions, and then post it on the BOI for you. Please mention that you are giving me permission to post it on the BOI.

Should be interesting to see what everyone has to say about this now. Back when I brought it up on the BOI most people were too engaged over the Chris Johnson of Top Shelf incident, which I was a victim of as well, to be bothered. Now that the BOI has kind of run out of steam on top headline scandalous incidents the post about Nick should get some responses. Most of the responses should be of support on our end and this might make enough of a wave that Nick will be made aware of it. One can always hope so and hopefully you will get Nick to publicly state that he will send you your refund.

Take care,
David
www.razorbackexotics.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Christine
To: Larry Willis
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Update! - SWF refund


Hi David,

Thanks for still being willing to help the rest of us who still have not been reimbursed. Unfortunately, I've got a feeling that my situation won't end as nicely as yours did.

I'd like to give you more info on my "story" as you called it, but doubt this will be possible by phone as I now live out of the country. I do still have the account open that I used to pay SWF for my order though.

If you want, I can email you as much information I can dig up about my situation in this whole unfortunate debacle. My order wasn't as big as I'm sure others must have been, but I did pay for a subscription and as we all know, nothing ever came of that.

Let me know what the next step should be.

Thanks again for you help.

-Christine



Larry Willis <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Christine,

I'm very sorry to hear that you have not received anything from Nick. As far as I know the information is still correct but if there was a lot of people making their complaints to the family business (I'm guessing it's a family business because the shared last name) I would imagine that by now Nick might be using a different e-mail address, and the phone number might be changed as well. Unfortunately, because of the huge gap in time from when all of this situation was hot, and because I'm sure that some of the people that are victims have just given up too, it has cooled down enough for Nick to take advantage of your trust and word in waiting for him to reimburse you. As they say "time is the killer" in situations like these.

However, there is still the offer that I made to everyone of taking this to the BOI and I will help you with that. Personally, I have not updated that thread on the BOI that I did finally receive my refund from Nick. I did it on purpose to make sure that enough time had pass for an update on my own situation with Nick that it took Nick to give me that refund and from the time of purchase last year. I figure fair was fair and that his actions were and are still inexcusable. I will be updating that thread very soon so if you would like me to I or you can place your story there. Really, at this point, I don't even think Nick really cares, but I am sure those friends of his that have defended him might, and it is these people who Nick must address in the end. I had wished that at the time that I placed the thread on the BOI that more victims would of joined me at that time when it was the best time to strike. But, to be fair, I do understand too. I think everyone has been made to feel victimized as some point in their lives and the natural defense in situations like these is to keep quite and small in hopes that they will not mess up any chance of being un-victimized. Unfortunately it usually doesn't work and even a greater part of our trust is lost along the way.

Before we proceed to the BOI with your story let us talk over the phone so I can gather more of a feel of your situation. If any of Nicks supporters were to attack the thread I will at least be able to say that I know you and that I have talked with you. We should also discuss what I will need from in the form of e-mails to and from Nick. Long distance is free for me but you are free to call me if you would prefer. Either way you have my word that everything said will be kept private unless otherwise stated by you for the purpose of the BOI. My phone number is 479-927-1324. If I am not there then try again in the afternoon.

Take care,
David - the PR guy
www.razorbackexotics.com




----- Original Message -----
From: Christine
To: Larry Willis
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: Update! - SWF refund


Hi David (or Larry),

I just wondered whether you knew if this information for Nick is still valid? I've just sent him another email since the last time I heard from him was April and I am still (impatiently) waiting for my refund...

I also wanted to know if your offer to post on your BOI thread for us was still good, as I just might have to send him that last warning email if I don't hear back from him soon.

Thanks for any help you can give me in this matter.

-Christine
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