Smoothies

[Drache613]

Hello

Hello,

Yes, just to add to Denise' question, since they seem to lack the production of keratin, or a certain amount of it to a degree, are they more prone to yellow fungus or skin infections? The normal morphs of bearded dragons have a hard time fighting this as it eats their scales away so I can only imagine what it would do to a softer skinned reptile.
I am still concerned that their systems are not as capable of handling physical trauma or stress as their scaled counterparts. Sometimes it takes quite awhile for defects to start showing from a mutation that occured.
I know you are working hard to document everything & record anything that is unusual during the breeding & hatching out stages.
Will you come back & share your results after more hatchouts, & any complications or problems that arise a well?


Thanks,

Tracie

 

[puppytoes72]

well,its been a couple days since allessandro has posted,i guess hes gone. vicky:can you maybe explain why there are so many contradictions between what he said and the description on your site?

 

[Wolfy-hound]

He could just be busy. It was good to ehar straight from the horse's mouth this time.
Wolfy

 

[monkeywrench133]

He may also have tried to post last night while the site was down for the server move.

 

[puppytoes72]

nope,he's not coming back.with the time difference he has been posting in the mornings and he hasnt the past 2 days. i just find it very strange that vicky is promoting the silkback but she can not come here and discuss it with us? instead, she lurks and then runs back to her site to edit stuff,like adding that thing about whiskersmom posting pics.why couldnt she say that here?

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Well, one day the server was down. So he hasn't posted in one day, and some folks have to work and do outside things like run their own lives, take care of critters.
Vivky could be avoiding the thread, or she might think it's being covered by Allessandro. Maybe she's busy. Shrug. Who knows. It's just a bit judgemental to say it's some bad reason. Not everyone's lives revolve around making sure to respond on Fauna.
Just folks like me... with no lives... lol.
I'm interested in hearing more about the silkbacks and leatherbacks, although I'm not a beardie person.
Wolfy

 

[walker75]

I also hope Alessandro comes back and answers the questions that have been asked and also asked more than once by a few people.

I do understand he has a life and a business to maintain

That being said..

I would also like to learn more about the leatherbacks that he has.
Because this is what he has breed / discovered and are producing
What is known as the Silkback Dragon
Like When where they ( leatherbacks ) first produced? 2004-2005?
The age and year with relation to hatching out the morph Silkback?
Are the leatherbacks related and how ?
What are the generations and time line?
Any deaths in clutches early on With both Leatherbacks and the Silkback?
What may or may not have been normal in these leatherback clutches?

Any difference between breeding normal dragons and leatherback dragons as far as clutches go say 8 leatherback babies 10 normal Babies and 10 showing signs of both traits?

Karen

 

[puppytoes72]

i guess vicky doesnt have anything to say.im not surprised

 

[mikey]

i guess vicky doesnt have anything to say.im not surprised

You are beating a dead horse when you insist on talking about something that cannot be changed. Example: "I'd like to talk with you again about what happened." Reply: "Oh, come on. Let's not beat a dead horse."

Beating a dead horse is an action that has no purpose, because no matter how hard or how long you beat a dead horse, it is not going to get up and run. Example: "Let's not talk about it any more. Okay?" Reply: "You're right. We're just beating a dead horse."

To repeatedly bring up a particular topic with no chance of affecting the outcome is beating a dead horse. Example: "Dad, are you sure we can't get a new computer for the upstairs?" Reply: "Son, we talked about this and the decision was 'no'. You are beating a dead horse."

 

[Valley Dragons]

You are beating a dead horse when you insist on talking about something that cannot be changed. Example: "I'd like to talk with you again about what happened." Reply: "Oh, come on. Let's not beat a dead horse."

Beating a dead horse is an action that has no purpose, because no matter how hard or how long you beat a dead horse, it is not going to get up and run. Example: "Let's not talk about it any more. Okay?" Reply: "You're right. We're just beating a dead horse."

To repeatedly bring up a particular topic with no chance of affecting the outcome is beating a dead horse. Example: "Dad, are you sure we can't get a new computer for the upstairs?" Reply: "Son, we talked about this and the decision was 'no'. You are beating a dead horse."

ROFL!!



To Puppytoes-

Okay, explain to me again why you think that you have the right to demand that ANY particular breeder spends their precious time posting answers to questions that are really none of your business in the first place? I believe the basics on this subject have been covered. Unless you are purchasing a silkback from either of the involved breeders and planning on starting your own silkback breeding project, then why do you insist on knowing absolutely every detail about this breeding project? It seems to me that you are still looking for something to fight about. I also don't see how what Dachiu had posted on their website is really much different than what Allesandro said - unless you are just LOOKING for something to pick at. And you are. Has it occurred to you that Dachiu may not want to speak to you because you are annoying and prone to using accusatory wording when asking questions?

Jamie

 

[whiskersmom]

ROFL!!



To Puppytoes-

Okay, explain to me again why you think that you have the right to demand that ANY particular breeder spends their precious time posting answers to questions that are really none of your business in the first place? I believe the basics on this subject have been covered. Unless you are purchasing a silkback from either of the involved breeders and planning on starting your own silkback breeding project, then why do you insist on knowing absolutely every detail about this breeding project? It seems to me that you are still looking for something to fight about. I also don't see how what Dachiu had posted on their website is really much different than what Allesandro said - unless you are just LOOKING for something to pick at. And you are. Has it occurred to you that Dachiu may not want to speak to you because you are annoying and prone to using accusatory wording when asking questions?

Jamie

Whoa...valley, that wasn't very nice of you. I understand and I'm sure most others reading this thread, would understand why puppytoes would like to hear from the Dachiu's. It was Dachiu's website that introduced this mutation to us. It was Dachiu calling it a "project". It's Dachiu who is putting herself in the spotlight here...if she really wanted to stay low key then she wouldn't have advertised these mutations on her website.
As for Alessandro answering our questions....you're right, he sure did. He explained where the inbreeding to took place in order to create these mutations and puppytoes has a right to be upset about it.....like alot of us are.
It's nice of you to come here to defend Vicki but I would like to hear from her myself. And the one question I would like to see answered is how can she do this? How can Alessandro do this? Where is the moral responsibility here? To take a perfect animal and mess with it is wrong.....what does a person say to themselves to talk them into believeing that this is ok? To take a scaled lizard and create it into a lizard without scales??? Why? So you think it looks cool, huh? So WHAT!!!!! We have NO RIGHT to do this.......playing God might feel good but it's wrong.
This animal was purposely inbred to create an animal that was supposed to have a certain body part (and it is a body part) and now it's missing that body part. How would you like to not have skin?????
So, don't come down on puppytoes just cause she wants answers from the main person advocating these mutations. She has a right to ask.

 

[puppytoes72]

first of all i didnt DEMAND vicky to answer questions.i simply stated that its awefully strange that she is just lurking and not saying anything.it sure would be nice to hear from her since she is the one promoting the silkback.its VERY strange that she has nothing to say through ALL these pages of this thread.there ARE many contradictions between the description on her site and what allessandro had to say. 1) WHEN and HOW the silkback came to be.2) special care and husbandry 3) vicky implied that the silkback "just happened" but allesandro admitted to inbreeding 4)the fragility of the silkback's skin.i simply stated what alot of ppl are wondering and want to know the answers to, soooooooooooo..... jean and jaime you can kiss my AZZ

 

[Tere Salazar]

first of all i didnt DEMAND vicky to answer questions.i simply stated that its awefully strange that she is just lurking and not saying anything.it sure would be nice to hear from her since she is the one promoting the silkback.its VERY strange that she has nothing to say through ALL these pages of this thread.there ARE many contradictions between the description on her site and what allessandro had to say. 1) WHEN and HOW the silkback came to be.2) special care and husbandry 3) vicky implied that the silkback "just happened" but allesandro admitted to inbreeding 4)the fragility of the silkback's skin.i simply stated what alot of ppl are wondering and want to know the answers to, soooooooooooo..... jean and jaime you can kiss my AZZ

Personally, I find it a bit funny that Vickie feels she's so above it all that she shouldn't have to answer for her actions...any of them.

 

[mikey]

You are just looking for a fight, plan and simple...

You have two VERY experienced, long term breeders that are working together on a new morph. He followed textbook procedure to confirm the codominant gene and they are now working to enhance the genetics. I see nothing wrong with that. What exactly do you see wrong?


Jean

 

[puppytoes72]

You are just looking for a fight, plan and simple...

You have two VERY experienced, long term breeders that are working together on a new morph. He followed textbook procedure to confirm the codominant gene and they are now working to enhance the genetics. I see nothing wrong with that. What exactly do you see wrong?


Jean

yeah,two very experienced breeders are working together but cant get their stories straight. what do i see wrong with it? EVERYTHING.its unnatural and wrong to inbreed for a "project" and the almighty dollar

 

[whiskersmom]

You are just looking for a fight, plan and simple...

You have two VERY experienced, long term breeders that are working together on a new morph. He followed textbook procedure to confirm the codominant gene and they are now working to enhance the genetics. I see nothing wrong with that. What exactly do you see wrong?


Jean

You're right, Mikey, this is beating a dead horse. You are never going to get it...for whatever reasons but you'll never get it. The term "two very experienced breeders" doesn't mean squat to me. It's how they handle that responsibilty that affects me. And they're not handleing it very well.
You see it as following textbook procedures, I see it as inbreeding. You're cool with that, that's your right. I can't see how anyone with a heart or love for these animals can be cool with it but to each their own.
We didn't start this fight......we didn't start this thread. Just because we are against inbreeding doesn't make us fight starters.

 

[mikey]

You're right, Mikey, this is beating a dead horse. You are never going to get it...for whatever reasons but you'll never get it. The term "two very experienced breeders" doesn't mean squat to me. It's how they handle that responsibilty that affects me. And they're not handleing it very well.
You see it as following textbook procedures, I see it as inbreeding. You're cool with that, that's your right. I can't see how anyone with a heart or love for these animals can be cool with it but to each their own.
We didn't start this fight......we didn't start this thread. Just because we are against inbreeding doesn't make us fight starters.

OK , BYE BYE NOW..Go play with your high color inbreed bearded dragons...

 

[outsdr2]

Hello this is why we are all against silkbacks they are an inbred freak of nature. they no longer can blackbeard , and from what I understand from Allesandros own post on an Italian reptile site. Allesandro admits he has no problem inbreeding.

nothing of piu simple ..... I say simply that to couple brother and sister it could not create no problem in theory. practically it could succeed that 1) the cuccioli arrive to being you form to you in the egg but they do not have force enough in order to exit, the 2) cuccioli that then you will give via could turn out sterile (imagined how much puo to incazzare who takes your animals and after many efforts it does not succeed to make cucciolo), 3) females begin to produce little eggs (I make present you that many of the cuccioli that I am sending in the United States they serve mainly for rinsanguare their lines, in the United States there are enormous animals that do not reproduce themselves or that they produce cuccioli that do not succeed to carry ahead), 4) one of the problems correlate to you with the snow (I rifare myself to an other post) is just the quantitative one of inbreeding pr trying to always select animals piu white men who pear tree do not succeed to produce that little vital cuccioli.

the history to potrebbeessere still long but you saving.
the rules of the good breeder, also little animals but with sure origins, to maintain rising of genealogico tree of the animals in the breeding cosi to be sure that the animals intercross to you are piu the possible distant.

much people do not understand, especially with the pogone, than enough not to take the two beautifulst ones pogone from the same breeder and riaccoppiarle epr to make a good job. it would have to take the two pogone and reincrociarle with others two coming from different from two various breeders whom in its turn they know to you to indicate from where the great breeders in realta come the animals (are little), to grow the cuccioli and to perhaps riaccoppiare the coming from animals from the two groups ..... and lack enough!!!!!!

perhaps she is for that many times new coloration does not come comprised the job made behind the creation of one and is for that people many times do not understand “the high” price of some animals….

salutes
alemoz

if you want to see more google, alemoz,alemoz2,and silkback you will see the same fury in his own country. so please don't try to say just a few are troublemakers, as the outrage is worldwide. whenever it gets close to finding the truth about inbreeding silkbacks, someone has a knack for disappearing.

Jack

 

[mikey]

Hello this is why we are all against silkbacks they are an inbred freak of nature. they no longer can blackbeard , and from what I understand from Allesandros own post on an Italian reptile site. Allesandro admits he has no problem inbreeding.

nothing of piu simple ..... I say simply that to couple brother and sister it could not create no problem in theory. practically it could succeed that 1) the cuccioli arrive to being you form to you in the egg but they do not have force enough in order to exit, the 2) cuccioli that then you will give via could turn out sterile (imagined how much puo to incazzare who takes your animals and after many efforts it does not succeed to make cucciolo), 3) females begin to produce little eggs (I make present you that many of the cuccioli that I am sending in the United States they serve mainly for rinsanguare their lines, in the United States there are enormous animals that do not reproduce themselves or that they produce cuccioli that do not succeed to carry ahead), 4) one of the problems correlate to you with the snow (I rifare myself to an other post) is just the quantitative one of inbreeding pr trying to always select animals piu white men who pear tree do not succeed to produce that little vital cuccioli.

the history to potrebbeessere still long but you saving.
the rules of the good breeder, also little animals but with sure origins, to maintain rising of genealogico tree of the animals in the breeding cosi to be sure that the animals intercross to you are piu the possible distant.

much people do not understand, especially with the pogone, than enough not to take the two beautifulst ones pogone from the same breeder and riaccoppiarle epr to make a good job. it would have to take the two pogone and reincrociarle with others two coming from different from two various breeders whom in its turn they know to you to indicate from where the great breeders in realta come the animals (are little), to grow the cuccioli and to perhaps riaccoppiare the coming from animals from the two groups ..... and lack enough!!!!!!

perhaps she is for that many times new coloration does not come comprised the job made behind the creation of one and is for that people many times do not understand “the high” price of some animals….

salutes
alemoz

if you want to see more google, alemoz,alemoz2,and silkback you will see the same fury in his own country. so please don't try to say just a few are troublemakers, as the outrage is worldwide. whenever it gets close to finding the truth about inbreeding silkbacks, someone has a knack for disappearing.

Jack

Whay exactly, IN ENGLISH, does that say..

 

[puppytoes72]

OK , BYE BYE NOW..Go play with your high color inbreed bearded dragons...

who's beating the dead horse now? im so sick of that excuse.we cant control what was done in the past but we can make a difference now.