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So, who is jumpin on the "mac snow" band wagon???

yes as far as i know, albinism is recessive in most all reptiles..
but the thing with the hypos is that the originals were imported and from importation they exibited hypomelanism... it was animals of a certain micro population or locality that exibited these characteristics.... i
n the hog island boa and corn island boa and a few other insular form of boa constrictor imperetor.. these animals are naturally hypomelanistic (of course varying degrees) but they have very minimal black.
hypomelanism is defined as a reduction in melanin... not the absence of..
however we have selectively bred (even in the insular boas forms) these animals to have little or no melanin in the skin... so in this case not only is it naturally occuring but can be effected by selective breeding, genetics and select breeding at work
 
Dan, your are not being a pain in the arse.....LOL.... Your are using your own brain and not taking the word of others.....
 
alex have you seen any mack supers that exibit any yellows? like on the legs or tail base?
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Hello Robin,
Non whatsoever...I've seen every Super that has now been hatched and grown including what Albeys has, what I have here, and what John is holding back...non have any "color" in them. All of these Supers out now are right around yearling through 2 year olds...no yellow has come through.
 
whatever you breed the snows with, you will end up with geckos that are black and white or just white with black eyes, unless ofcorse they are bred with albinos
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when breeding an Albino to a normal, tangerine, carrottail..etc, dont you also end up with a bunch of "Hets" ? Thats all the Mack Snows are....Visible Hets. Instead of trying to figure out if you've been duped or not by a less than respectable breeder like what has happened in the past with albinos, you now have a certain standard of what makes a Mack "Het" for Super Snow, that on top of knowing who you purchased the animals from.

What about breeding the Mack Snow/Super Snow into blizzards, patternless, albinos, hypos, etc...? arent these all possiblities also? its not limited to just the albinos.
 
Very true Alex..... But what I am saying is that they will still be black and white or just white with black eyes no matter what you breed them to..... Sure you can breed them to blizzards but they will turn out to be white with black eyes..... The same will hold true for patternless..... Breed the snows to super hypos, you will end up with leos that are white/gray/ maybe some black, with spotted tails and black eyes..... Thats cool and all and I think they are awesome looking, but why would you breed it to a super hypo tang carrot tail???? You would effectively be washing the colors away on animals that were line bred to be that color..... Like I said, they are great and all, but I just dont think they are the morph that will change leos as we know them today..... The hype will die out fast, and when it does, thats when I will spend my money on them.....
 
Very true Alex..... But what I am saying is that they will still be black and white or just white with black eyes no matter what you breed them to..... Sure you can breed them to blizzards but they will turn out to be white with black eyes..... The same will hold true for patternless..... Breed the snows to super hypos, you will end up with leos that are white/gray/ maybe some black, with spotted tails and black eyes..... Thats cool and all and I think they are awesome looking, but why would you breed it to a super hypo tang carrot tail???? You would effectively be washing the colors away on animals that were line bred to be that color..... Like I said, they are great and all, but I just dont think they are the morph that will change leos as we know them today..... The hype will die out fast, and when it does, thats when I will spend my money on them.....
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Thats the whole point...1. to try and make better Mack Snows/Supers 2. to incorporate into other genetic mutations that would be "compatible" and 3. maybe even coming up with something different altogether when bred with other genes.

But what I am saying is that they will still be black and white or just white with black eyes no matter what you breed them to
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Sure, and when you breed an albino x albino, you still get albinos, blizzard x blizzards you still get blizzards, patternless x patternless, you still get patternless, ...I guess I'm curious as to why you would believe that lets say a patternless Mack Super Snow cant be produced? or a Blizzard Mack Super Snow? its all about mixing and matching in order to produce something different and there are alot of genes out there that the Mack Snows/Supers would fit into where other mutations may not.


but I just dont think they are the morph that will change leos as we know them today
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They may not change the face of the Gecko World....but can you think of another Morph that has a visible het? or that consistently produces traits ( Mack Supers) with 100% reliabilty..black eyes, striping, and pure white background or the Mack Snows (born black and white/jungle pattern).
 
Hues1 said:
They may not change the face of the Gecko World....but can you think of another Morph that has a visible het? or that consistently produces traits ( Mack Supers) with 100% reliabilty..black eyes, striping, and pure white background or the Mack Snows (bron black and white/jungle pattern).
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In other species, yes, like bells lace monitors and some python morphs..... In leos, no...... But I still do not see the big hype in these snows..... And being that it is a "visible het" that will help the market drop out alot......
 
Hues1 said:
I guess I'm curious as to why you would believe that lets say a patternless Mack Super Snow cant be produced? or a Blizzard Mack Super Snow? its all about mixing and matching in order to produce something different and there are alot of genes out there that the Mack Snows/Supers would fit into where other mutations may not.
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I never said it cant be done..... I was saying is if you breed a SS to a blizzard, all you would get are white blizzards with black eyes..... And you would get a very similar looking animals if you bred a SS to a patternless..... Sure the albinos will be interesting to see but they will just be albino SS/snows..... I dont know..... I am sorry if I fail to see anything major to come of these snows..... Is it just me????
 
In other species, yes, like bells lace monitors and some python morphs..... In leos, no...... But I still do not see the big hype in these snows..... And being that it is a "visible het" that will help the market drop out alot......
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We're not talking about other species...we're talking about leopard geckos, there is no "hype"...its all about who's willing to spend the money/time/and energy into incorporating this Line into other lines. The people that see the potential and are willing to pay top dollar for the opportunity will do so...the people who dont wont. Either way, from what it sounds like...there are people like myself and some others that are willing to spend the money/time/and energy in working with this project, then there are the people who dont have the money/time/energy or are just skeptical and dont want to spend the money/time/energy. Regardless of which one it is...the end result will be the same, animals will get sold at premium in the beginning, once demand has leveled off the prices will come down, and then everyone will be able to afford them...for the most part. Then the guys like me will have the "next wave" of Mack Snow/Super crosses available...which will sell at a premium in the beginning and when demand has leveled off the prices will come down. It happens with evey single mutation of any reptile species out there...but, one thing that wont ever change is...the people who get into it at the beginning are typically the people that get the most out of it.
 
Hues1 said:
Then the guys like me will have the "next wave" of Mack Snow/Super crosses available...which will sell at a premium in the beginning and when demand has leveled off the prices will come down. It happens with evey single mutation of any reptile species out there...but, one thing that wont ever change is...the people who get into it at the beginning are typically the people that get the most out of it.
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The most out of it???? In what way exactly???? This statement just makes my past statements even stronger.....
 
I also forgot to say that atleast you are upfront and honest about wanting to make alot of money with these animals..... That is why if I ever did deside to buy SSs at the premium cost I would buy them from you......
 
maybe its just me

but isnt saying you dont see potential in the snows , just like someone saying to you (if you do like Blazings ) there was no potential with blizzards when they first came out ? :confused:
 
What about that statement did you not understand?

When you get in on something early on...you're apt to capitalize on it more, your odds of creating the first crosses are greater, your odds of selling off the offspring are greater, your odds of being the first at proving or disproving certain characterisitics are greater, your odds of building and establishing a well maintained colony are better..etc. You think people pay upwards of $100,000 for mutations because its only a "hobby" ???

Greg...I apologize if I sound a bit too harsh, but the truth of the matter is...alot of us do this as a source of income, there is no evil in making money from what you enjoy doing. Thanks.
 
Well blizzards have already proven themselves to be lots of hype aswell And it happened fast..... The only recessive morph I see with potential is the albino strains..... So its either albinos or linebred morphs that have any real potential in my opinion.....
 
Alex, no opologies needed..... Like I said you and a handfull of dealers are honest..... But there are many that are not..... Did you sound harsh??? Maybe in some peoples eyes but my skin is a bit thicker than that....LOL.....

Hues1 said:
You think people pay upwards of $100,000 for mutations because its only a "hobby" ???
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This was my point way early on in this thread....
 
Also do not take my opinion as bashing your product..... I stated from the begining they are awesome animals.....
 
I think that Mack snows have a chance to hold their value. If they are compatable with hypo traits, you could have selectively bred hypo snows; just subsitute white for orange. You could also work to refine the striping, less spots, more definition etc. Then you could do these same things in all three albiono strains...

I think that crosses into patternless, blizzard, "normal albinos" will be the most apt to come down in price; they'll probably follow the same drop we saw in pa's and are seeing now in tremper strain blazings. Needless to say, "unenhanced" super snows will drop too.

In the mean time, there is a lot of work to be done, and some unexpected results may emerge from some genetic combinations. It should be very interesting to see what everyone's hatching out in the next few years.

-Alice
 
Hi all,

who has Mac Snows for sale? I've seen urban geckos site but would rather buy from a breeder here In the USA.

thanks
 
there are two kinds of snows...
selectively bred snows i think thats what urban has, albey has some , cody at pro geckos has some and a few others have them
and
Mack snows which are a co-dominant trait john mack originated the line so he has them, alex hue here on this thread has them, steve sykes has them and so does albey along with a hand full of others
 
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