Something to ponder.....

[Dennis1]

I do this most of the time so the quotes arent taken out of Context

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Thanks Dennis, and Karen for that bit of info. Basically, you manually give it the command, insert the text, and end command.

As for them "pro's" (that was sarcasm BTW) that I saw in Clearwater, TX. I would call their careless handling the only reason I saw any bites. They had a race to see how many rattlers they could "speed/hand" capture and put into a bag, in X amount of time. In a plexi enclosure, on the their knees. Just plain STUPIDITY IMHO. That's the only time I can say I was glad that a person got tagged. But I doubt they learned anything from it.

Ciao,
Rick

 

[Dennis1]

Thanks Dennis, and Karen for that bit of info. Basically, you manually give it the command, insert the text, and end command.

As for them "pro's" (that was sarcasm BTW) that I saw in Clearwater, TX. I would call their careless handling the only reason I saw any bites. They had a race to see how many rattlers they could "speed/hand" capture and put into a bag, in X amount of time. In a plexi enclosure, on the their knees. Just plain STUPIDITY IMHO. That's the only time I can say I was glad that a person got tagged. But I doubt they learned anything from it.

Ciao,
Rick

You should have taken video
Worlds most dumbest...would have probably paid you for it...lol

 

[Skunky]

I'm an absolute newbie to herping, so my $0.02 really isn't even worth that though. I must say, honestly, that some of the most beautiful snakes out there are hots (eg. Gaboon vipers, green mambas, copperheads). If these snakes were non-venomous, I know I'd look to have them in my collection any day..they're gorgeous -- and I'm sure some folk out there may or may not agree?

Not that I'm condoning anything, just my perspective. Take it for what it is.

 

[Vinny D]

I would never use it. In my own opinion, i think if your going to have a venomous snake it should be venomous. If people have viods, they are going to hold them. And that is not respecting the animals. A venomous snake's natural history is their venom, why do people want to take that away? I dont know, but this was a very intresting thread. Thanks for reading.

Vinny

 

[Vinny D]

DENNIS1, When i started on fauna it wasent pretty. A lot of back and fourth fighting, but why it all started was because i came off wrong to these guys. But they are really cool people with a lot of GREAT information to share and receive. So, dont worry about it. Beleve me i took a lot of hard core posts that i DID deserve. And so far everything has calmed down. And thats the way it should be, just simple herp talk lol.

 

[ChuckHurd]

sometime back, i posed the questions, what is we could "breed" voids. for example a cane drops a littler and some of the off spring are born without venom glands. then from those we could breed a line of natural voids using line breeding, just as we do with albinos. seems most were opposed to that idea as well. seems that most who choose to work with venomous, do not want to alter their nature by any means.

 

[devenomized]

After hearing about the possible issues with venomous snakes digesting food I'd have to say no myself. Hadn't really thought of that in the past and didn't know it was an issue.

It's not an issue on all snakes. Gaboons, Cobras, Crotalids, Mambas, and a much more have no issues. Those that "might" have issues, you will not see them sold as venomoids for two reasons A) they will die or B) 0 return on investment.

 

[devenomized]

I've been too busy to keep track of what some adults and kids are saying about this topic here at Fauna. The discussion never seems to end, but the fact is simple. Venomoids will continue until nobody buys them.

There isn't a drug out there that will render a venomous snake nonvenomous and there isn't a venomoid gene. Nice way to start a flame fest about venomoids by introducing the hypothetical stuff.... very clever!

But i'll make you happy and respond: If there was such drug, the company behind its distribution will make a lot money. If this drug is available to any DVM and no law prohibits its application as a cosmetic procedure, people will begin scheduling visits to have their venomous snakes treated with this "drug". Now, if this drug becomes affordable, forget about it. You won't have hundreds of venomous reptile owners and herp enthusiasts interest in this new phenomenum, but THOUSANDS of people. Of course, you will always have the PETA lovers, the Animal activists, the Darwins and others as we've seen here that will debate this issue until there is no tomorrow, but the bottom line is that the drug will be a huge success assuming it does NOT get banned for "ethical issues".

Another interesting point will be to consider the cost of venomoids vs hots. Assuming you have a group of DVMs with several years of experience performing adenectomies and ductectomies to venomous snakes and they now would like to offer their services to reptile owners at no cost. How many venomous reptile owners or reptile enthusiasts WILL schedule the time to have their animals surgically altered if it won't cost anything to have this done by a licensed DVM? The known fact is that a venomous Gaboon will cost $85 at a reptile table, but the venomoid twin will cost about 3 to 4 times that amount. A $400 price tag may seem irrational for some people who were considering a venomoid, but if that price tags drops to only 100 bucks, what do you think will happen? What do you think will happen if venomoids are available at a reptile show for the same cost of venomous? Do you think other venomous reptile vendors will see a negative impact in their gross sales of venomous snakes? Think about it? Trust me. Here at fauna it may give the impression that reptile enthusiasts are all together and fighting against the minority of people who would consider venomoids, but the reality is that the real minority can only be found here discussing hyphotetical stuff.

Have a good day!

DEVENOMIZED.COM
... but we still got fangs!

 

[devenomized]

If you are interested in debating or discussing this issue in person assuming you are an adult willing to accept different subjective opinions, I'm looking forwarding to meeting you at the next Hamburg show. Until then, feel free to contact me. Don't worry I don't bite, I've been devenomized.

DEVENOMIZED.COM
... but we still got fangs!

 

[GQMedic]

Great idea, although not necessary...

Firstly, in the spirit of keeping things light, I will spell out my personal opinions and feelings about the subject.

1. I am not opposed to venomoids. The have their place.

2. I don't have any dislike for vets performing the procedure.

3. This hypothetical drug certainly bears it's merits.

4. I don't keep venomoids, I like my hots as hots.

5. I am not concerned about being envenomed as I do not (free)handle my hots AT ALL. I don't pet them, touch them, kiss them or sing silly love songs to them. If I go into any of my hots domiciles, I use a snake shield and a hook and I have a forceps and furniture tongs handy for any enclosure work and I keep a clear barrier between me and my hots. I shall not be bitten period, ever, that is my resolution and I'll do all things to prevent that.

6. I do not keep hots that I can not by my ability keep safely, utterly. I do not over-estimate my ability or under-estimate my hots ability to reach any part of me.

With number 5 in mind, I have no use for a venomoid or a hypothetical drug that will eliminate a snake's venom. My hots live in secure enclosures that offer me complete visibility so I can do what I like to do, watch "Hot snake TV".

I have pondered and this is what I've come up with. A part of my attraction to hot snakes is because they ARE hot. They are unique in the fact that you can't pick them up like a kitten, that they command a great level of respect, that such an animal is a small percentage of snakes that are kept by herpetoculturists / amateur herpetologists. A thing of beauty that is a rarity to be kept and observed closely. Why would I want to change that? It wouldn't have the luster and allure if rendered "safe".

I am fascinated to watch the venom work on a prey item before it is eaten by my hots. It really is something to be in awe of and difficult to describe to the point that "Not" keepers can't truly understand without becoming "Hot" keepers, and that limits learning. I am resolved to keep these magnificent animals whole that in keeping them, I grow to better understand them as time goes on, to sensibly manage inherent risk associated in doing so that I may enjoy them as they are.

 

[devenomized]

GQMedic,

Very good response!

 

[ccole74]

.

5. I am not concerned about being envenomed as I do not (free)handle my hots AT ALL. I don't pet them, touch them, kiss them or sing silly love songs to them. If I go into any of my hots domiciles, I use a snake shield and a hook and I have a forceps and furniture tongs handy for any enclosure work and I keep a clear barrier between me and my hots. I shall not be bitten period, ever, that is my resolution and I'll do all things to prevent that.

QUOTE]

This is a very good statement. Dont mean to boot leg the thread but I just had to say good post.

 

[christophermchale]

i feed all my venomous on defrost, so i dont keep them venomous to watch them kill stuff.

ive got plenty of snakes i can handle, so i wouldnt need to make them handlable.

i guess im not terribly oppossed to it, but i have no need for it myself.

interested debate though...