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SouthernStatesExotics.com

B

Boaguy12

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http://www.southernstatesexotics.com/index.htm
I was browsing through their website and noticed them selling normal looking Leopard Gecko's as "Het Snow" and "Het Carrottail" As a line bred trait there cannot be a "Het" to my belief. They also use

http://www.southernstatesexotics.com/images/mainpic.gif
Which is a cheaply edited picture from a book by John Coborn.
I e-mailed them about the situation and got a very rude reply.

This is my E-mail:
"I have stumbled across your website, and have found much misleading information on the lizards you sell. A Leopard gecko can not be "Het Snow" or "Het Carrottail" both are line bred mutations, so they are either Carrottail/Snow or not.
Click to expand...

This was the reply:

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Regarding your website...
Date: Wed, 30 July 2003 10:10:46 -0700
Attachments
Name Type Save View
Part 1 text/plain Save
Part 2 text/html Save


Well the Iguanas are sold, The Bjurmese are sold as well. They were mine by the way. And the rest of the information...&^*( YOU
Click to expand...
(I edited out the swear word)


Does'nt seem like someone I would want to do buisness with....
 
Sorry to hear about this. My impression of Steve Smith was one of a guy getting started who really wanted to do it well.

I can't speak on the accuracy of his "het" ads (I don't know geckos), but even if you were completely off base, I can't see how that warrants the reply.
 
What the hell is going on lately!?!?!:(
People are getting ripped off, getting rude email replies, sending rude emails, etc more lately than I can remember.
Is it the Summer heat?
I got a 3 word rude reply from a "well known KS advertiser" when I emailed an offer on a non-feeding snake.
I don't get it.
Lately is seems that this business is getting very hostile.
 
I can vouch 100% for what he has said regarding leopard gecko genetics.

Not only is there no such thing as "het" snow, even "snow" is an as of yet unproven trait. Most animals sold as snow turn yellow as adults.

Carrot tail is a proven trait, and certainly it would be more than fair to advertise "Carrot tail cross" as some people do, but absolutely NOT het.
 
It also strikes me as odd. From his posts he seemed like a nice guy. Maybe he is not really aware how those genetic traits are inherited in geckos. Anyways, IMHO John's intentions were meant to help them correct the mistake and not start trouble. He didn't deserve such a rough reply. If I'm not mistaken a while ago they also had an ad where they offered hetero genetic stripe boas obtained from breeding a Colombian to an Argentinian boa. To the boa breeders out there, is that possible, or was it just an honest mistake?

Best regards.
 
Me

The Geckos came from Captive Sciences, and I believe Galen will back me up on the genes that they carry. the pictures of the snakes were my snakes. they were purchased from Ron and Tara I think they are on this Forum some as well. I have no idea what you people have against someone trying to do business with you. I am not nearly what you make me out to be. I am really easy to get along with, but sometimes the arrogance of you people get the best of me.....

Steve Smith
Southern States Exotics
 
Also

If you are talking about the logo picture on my site, I purchased it from Moonlit media. If she did not ask permission to use that as a logo then I stand corrected and will remove it. I will contact her regarding the use of that one.

Steve Smith
Southern State Exotics
 
One More

From Galen Captive Sciences (Unless you people doubt he knows anything as well)

Steve,

I see that you are getting kicked around a bit on the BOI for listing Het
snows and CT's. The geckos you received from me, a few were from snow line
projects and a few from CT lines, so realistically you posted them really
without misrepresenting them. However, they are line bred traits so there
is no hetero form, like patternless, albino, etc. If you would like, I will
back you up on the Leos via BOI, as it is an honest mistake if you are not
really into Leo genetics. Just for your info, snows are a line trait and
are priced by grade, A-B-C-D, etc.

Talk to you soon.

- Galen

Galen Clark II
Captive Science
309-453-6697
[email protected]
www.captivescience.com
 
The Stripe Boa

The stripe boa you are refering to was a true genetic stripe that was purchased from Shawn at The Viper pit. It was of his own breeding and genetics. If in doubt Check it out..

Steve Smith
Southern States Exotics
 
Steve,

Don't get me wrong as I'm not doubting you. You probably provided the infromation you were given. My question was if it is possible to obtain a true genetic stripe boa (a recessive trait) by breeding an Argentine boa (never heard of the existence of genetic stripe Argentinians) and a Colombian boa. With my limited knowledge of genetics I would say that the best that could be obtained is a possible (50%) normal looking hetero for stripe (if the Colombian was 100% hetero), or a normal looking 100% hetero (if the Colombian was a true genetic stripe). Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Best regards.
 
As for me

As for me i think that screwing with genetics is like screwing with nature and god. It just isn't ment to be. Hitler tried it too.

Steve Smith
Southern State Exotics
 
Side Notes

As Steve stated by posting my email, that of the geckos that Steve had aquired from me, some of the geckos were of Snow and CT line groups. I believe this was an honest mistake made by Steve, as Leophiles know, that their line and genetic traits can be somewhat confusing and overwhelming at times regarding pricing....especially with snows.

I would rather you blame me for the mix up as I did not label them regarding their traits and should have versed Steve a little better before they were offered.

Hope this clears this issue up a bit.

Thanks everyone.

Galen Clark
Captive Science
 
What Galen says is most certainly true, and I know Galen to be an outstanding person. I have no doubt about the quality of his animals.

I don't see how you are using it in your defense though. You misrepresented your animals as being het for a trait which they can in no way be. You have not offered an apology for misrepresenting them, only posted that the original breeder corrected you privately about your misrepresenting them.

If you continue to advertise them as het for traits which are NOT simple recessives then you will be knowingly misrepresenting them.
 
Correction

If you will look at the page it has already been corrected. I am not trying to use anything in my defense. I stand in judgement of no man nor should I be judged for making a human error. Let he without sin cast the first stone.

Steve Smith
Southern States Exotics
 
Genetics

It appears it was a matter of confusion in regards to the Leo genetics on the part of Southern States. I don't think it was deliberate. Alvaro is also, correct in his statement on the Boa gen's as well. I would have been a simple matter to simply say, "I'll check and get back to you with the backgrounds". Rather than the curt reply. I have been getting a lot of these type of replies as well. I think what most of the problem is....It's slow season..very slow. There are a number of people looking and asking about specimens for sale but very few are buying. Wait till the 2-3 week of August and it will pick back up. It does this every year. Some years are worse than others. It makes for very irritated people. In regards to the Gecko photo it does appear to be from the publication mentioned. Not a good thing. It's always better to use your own pics or ask the breeder for use of the pics of the parents. They did our site as well but, we supplied ALL pics and material. (Yeah, that's why some are marginal. LOL) Thanks Ray Goushaw HBR
 
I'm sure that'll hold up well in court when someone buys that "Leopard Gecko 6 Lot Het For Snow" group and doesn't hatch any animals that are homozygous for snow. Yes, that is still on the site. I noticed you have changed het for carrot tail to Carrot Tail "Genes" which is certainly an interesting way of phrasing things too (not wrong, just a bit strange to put a scientific term in quotes as if uncertain).

I have no idea what you people have against someone trying to do business with you. I am not nearly what you make me out to be. I am really easy to get along with, but sometimes the arrogance of you people get the best of me.....
Click to expand...

I stand in judgement of no man nor should I be judged for making a human error. Let he without sin cast the first stone.
Click to expand...
 
It's not you honest mistake that upset anyone here, Sir. It was the rude way you reacted when someone tried to point out your mistake. You obviously did not understand the issue of genetics with your own animals you offered for sale, and used terms (terms which have specific and quantifiable meanings, mind you) that would mislead others equally unlearned in such issues.

Someone, worrying that maybe you DID understand all too well, tried to point out the error of your advertisement and you responded with hatefulness and vulgarity. Now you're trying to quote Scripture in support of your position? Please!

Your initial mistake may well have been an honest one. However, your misuse of Scripture after having cursed someone out for having the audacity to question your sincerity leaves me thinking of hypocrites I've known in the past. You can make a mistake, and we're all supposed to just say "Oh, OK!" But if anyone errs (from your perspective) by asking you if you know what in the world you're talking about, he deserves a cussing?

Right. I got it now. Thanks.
 
Please

You people are utterly amasing. Actually that was not scripture in the context in which I used it. The mistake has been corrected. All btu the logo pictures whuch I wanted to change any way. So now I APOLOGISE to all the superior intelect who endows us with their presence here. Any will always try to be happy when someone criticizes me. Did I leave anything out. If so I am sure you will let me know.

Steve Smith
 
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