SPAM - North Florida Zoological

[Mark and Aimee]

Is anyone else getting hit with SPAM from "North Florida Zoological?

From: Michael E. Welker [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:11 PM
To: (deleted)
Subject: 1 Current Surplus Herp Stock


Hello,

Please find our current surplus herp stock list attached. Let us know your needs.

Thank you,

Michael Welker
Mickey Arnold
352-264-7826

----------------------

From: Mark Berger
To: Michael E. Welker
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 11:25 PM
Subject: RE: 1 Current Surplus Herp Stock


Hi. Did I ask you to send this to me? I'm not sure, as I have requested price lists from a few different companies lately. But I don't recognize your name....

Mark

-------------------------------

From: Michael E. Welker [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:16 AM
To: Mark Berger
Subject: Re: 1 Current Surplus Herp Stock


Hello Mark,

No, we just took it upon our selves to send it to you. We got your email from a breeder contact of ours. If we can help you with anything please let us know. If not, I'm sorry to bother you.

Take Care,

Mike Welker & Mickey Arnold
North Florida Zoological
352-264-7826
Let us know your needs.
We specialize in North American herps not usually offered.
We are always interested in your locality wild caught herps and captive born offspring.
Trades welcome.

------------------------------

From: Mark Berger
To: Michael E. Welker
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2004 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: 1 Current Surplus Herp Stock

Please remove me from your list. I've yet to purchase anything from SPAM, and probably never will.

Sorry.

Mark

---------------------

So I thought that would be the last I heard of them..... Think again.

---------------------

From: Michael Welker [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 1 PRICE LIST 5/27/2004


NORTH FLORIDA ZOOLOGICAL

Gainesville, Florida USA

(352) 264-7826

[email protected]



PRICE LIST 5/27/2004

(deleted)

Mike Welker & Mickey Arnold

North Florida Zoological

Reptiles, Amphibians, Invertebrates & Mammals

[email protected]

352-264-7826

Let us know your needs.
We specialize in North American herps not usually offered.
We are always interested in your locality wild caught herps and captive born offspring.
Trades welcome.

------------------------------------

From: Mark Berger
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:04 PM
Subject: RE: 1 PRICE LIST 5/27/2004

I have already asked you once to remove me from your spam list. I will not ask again. I feel my first request was sufficient, and you have left me with no choice but to take action.

PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR LIST. You have been reported to your Internet Service Provider.

Mark & Aimee Berger
Outback Snakehouse
Colorado Springs, CO
http://www.outbacksnakehouse.net
http://www.aussiedragons.com
http://www.babyberger.com
719-638-4435
[email protected]

------------------------------

From: Michael Welker [[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: I'm sorry I thought you were removed

Hello Mark,

I removed you the first time you emailed me. You must have been listed twice or something. I deleted you again. No need to get an attitude.

Take Care,


Mike Welker & Mickey Arnold

North Florida Zoological

Reptiles, Amphibians, Invertebrates & Mammals

[email protected]

352-264-7826

Let us know your needs.
We specialize in North American herps not usually offered.
We are always interested in your locality wild caught herps and captive born offspring.
Trades welcome.

-----------------

I have already reported this idiot. Why on earth would I do business with anyone who repeatedly SPAMs me? I have NEVER purchased anything from an unsolicited email, and NEVER will. What a moron!

 

[Zonata64]

Sounds to me like Mark does have an attitude. He also has showed his inmaturity by name calling. I guess this shows what type of person he is. Get over yourself Mark!

 

[Mark and Aimee]

Sounds to me like Mark does have an attitude. He also has showed his inmaturity by name calling. I guess this shows what type of person he is. Get over yourself Mark!

Glad you have come here to explain yourself. Everything makes perfect sense now.

I guess it's OK that you try to do business by SPAM... Everyone appreciates that!

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Hi Mike. Regardless of Mark's attitude most people really don't like spam. I don't think you meant any harm by it but you don't want to alienate possible future customers either. Good luck in your business.

 

[Twiztid]

I got the DREADED SPAM too!!!

It was just in 2 of my email accounts not even a half hour ago. Mark, let me help you out on this one. There should be a button labeled "Delete" somewhere on your screen. If you click on it, the email will no longer be there and it will not offend you anymore. And you won't have to take time out of your busy schedule to come here and beg for attention and acceptance from your fellow whiners and know-it-alls. I usually only read the BOI to reassure me why I have backed out out of this hobby alot. SO many crybabies. Just thought I could interject cause this really seems to be getting to you. Oh, and I totally agree with Mike. For someone to start sniveling and name calling over something so petty really does show what kind of person they are in real life. Get over it you poor thing. Where's Ritchie Luna and his 10 or so disciples that love to throw their own 2 worthless cents into every thread? This is the perfect opportunity for him to flex his big wannabe cop muscles from his keyboard. Let's all help them out and think of who we can report Mike to for sending out a bulk email. It'll save them the time of figuring it out on their own and making empty ridiculous threats. They're obviously very busy people. But then they wouldn't get the pleasure of stroking each other today like they do every other day and we'll all have to read double stupidity tomorrow. Don't sweat it Mike. He's (they're) not worth it. Just sit back and smile.

 

[Wilomn]

It's an intrusion no matter how you look at it. The fact that it's done by a fellow herper makes it a little more painful than the normal spam we all get and delete daily.

I've gotten it at least 4 times in the last week. It is annoying and since it is intrusive as well as unasked for I would think real hard about doing business with these guys if they had something I wanted.

Mark may have over reacted a bit, oh my, oh my. Off with his head.

Spam is still SPAM no matter who sends it or why. Just because he didn't appreciate it doesn't make him out to be a bad guy.

twiztid do you realize that you are largely doing exactly what you don't think mark should be doing?

I think the saying goes something like this,"hey pot, kettle here, did you know you're black?'' and then the reply from pot is, " nuh uh, YOU ARE!" and so on ad infinitum.

Wes Pollock

 

[DThomas]

Irregardless of of whether Mark over reacted or not, it is still spam, an unsolicited commercial email. It also violates the new "Can Spam Act" that went into effect on January 01, 2004. The body of the email contains no method for the receiver to be removed from the spammer's email list. This is a violation.

With the latest figures showing close to 85% of email traffic is spam, this doesn't help. I personally never buy from spam and report all spam received to spam cop. With enough complaints, and it doesn't take many, the spammer's mail server gets blacklisted and all of his emails bounce. Report him to spam cop Mark.

 

[Twiztid]

Yeah, I do realize...

I'm basically going to extremes myself but like you just said, "oh no, oh no, off with his head". That's exactly what Mark implied with Mike right? I personally would rather get spam regarding reptiles than penis enlagement, haha. At least it's something interesting that has the possibility of being useful. I think it's a good idea. I can't use any of the animals on Mike's list myself so I just looked it over and deleted it. Twice. What's the big deal? No need to "cut his head off for it". Isn't there anything else better to point fingers, oust perfectly innocent people as "bad guys" and complain about today or what? Hey, it's Friday. I'm bored at work. Thought I'd contribute a logical point of view to some new bull$hit on this board.

 

[HerpVenue]

someone around here has a DIFFERENT name but sounds REALLY REALLY familiar.
hhhhmmm who could it be?
and why use a fake name?

If you click on it, the email will no longer be there and it will not offend you anymore.

Easier said than done. By the time I come home from Lunch I have 75 avg spam mails to delete. byt the time I come home from work for the day I have an average of 50 more.

I usually only read the BOI to reassure me why I have backed out out of this hobby alot.

That is pretty impressive considering you just registered last month (april 2004). So what is your REAL name and what other screen names do you have?

Where's Ritchie Luna and his 10 or so disciples that love to throw their own 2 worthless cents into every thread?

Here I am. But only because you called. So you can throw your 2 cents in but no one else can? ...really starting to sound familiar. ryan from delaware.....yeah right

This is the perfect opportunity for him to flex his big wannabe cop muscles from his keyboard.

wanna be cop? really really starting to sound familiar. Keep it up. oh yeah......what did this thread have to do with me? because half of everything you posted has to do with me and not about the people in the thread

Let's all help them out and think of who we can report Mike to for sending out a bulk email. It'll save them the time of figuring it out on their own and making empty ridiculous threats. They're obviously very busy people. But then they wouldn't get the pleasure of stroking each other today like they do every other day and we'll all have to read double stupidity tomorrow. Don't sweat it Mike. He's (they're) not worth it. Just sit back and smile.

definately sounding familiar..... Definately not a ryan from Delaware.

For a guy who has all the balls to talk all this SH!T......you sure are too much Chicken SH!T to post your REAL name.

tell me again what this thread has to do with me?

 

[HerpVenue]

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=125351#post125351

I was looking at your post on the link.
it makes me wonder what you really have against Mark and Aimee.
It seems you have had something against them. and i bet they have never ever dealt with a ryan mills from delaware

 

[HerpVenue]

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What does ryan Mills have in common with all of the above people?
1. They are all from different states....so that can't be it.
2. they all have AOL
3. they all work at the EXACT same place


but you ask how can they all be from different states but be working in the same EXACT place.

it is because he is to chicken to put where he really is from .

Say hello to Ryan Mills.

I mean Ryan Trude.

Oh I meant say good bye.
I never banned anyone myself......but I think i will practice just for Rayn.

p.s. all the above names have been banned by the real moderators and admin.
it is time for me to try my hand at it

 

[marnold34]

North Florida Zoological

My name is Mickey Arnold. My partner (Mike Welker) and I own North Florida Zoological in Gainesville, Fl. We are the ones that sent out the e-mails. We got the list from another breeder and we have sent several e-mails with our price lists on it and had many positive responses. We have had several people ask to be removed, which we promptly did. What we didn't realize was that several names were on there multiple times as well as several people have multiple e-mail addresses. We sincerely apologize to everyone for the mistake/s. We were trying to thin that (e-mail) list down although we are considering not doing any business that way at all. Although a lot of people do by animals that way, we do understand how frustrating SPAM can be and we will work to eliminate this problem.

Thank you, Mickey Arnold

 

[sputnik]

Ryan LOL

Been wondering when Ryan Trude, the little college boy wanna be would appear again pretending to be someone else.

North Florida Zoological obviously have a problem with how they conduct or try to generate business and don't seem to undertstand that sending unwanted emails is just SPAM, regardless of the content.

Or maybe they do NOW!

 

[marnold34]

SPAM

We have apologized for the mistakes and this will be the last time we post about this. I and my partner have been in this business for over 15 years (We finally decided to make it an official business just recently) and have done business with many well respected people (Barney Tomberlin (Hatari Invertebrates), Carl Barden (Medtoxin Venom Lab) to name just a couple) and have never once had our reputation questioned. We sell to a lot of different people and have never had one complaint. We were both hesitant to sell via e-mail list or on these various internet sites because if you make one mistake you get "thrown under the bus". (All of our business up to this point has been through private breeders, wholesalers, etc...) As I said in the previous post we do apologize (for the last time) and will re-examine our business practices.

We did not intentionally leave anyone on the list that requested to be removed. If it is in fact illegal to send out that list without a "remove button" we will stop immediately.

Thanks, Mickey Arnold
North Florida Zoological

 

[Mike B.]

banning

If you know its a static IP why not ban the address instead of the user? Obviously the user banning hasnt worked on this guy......unless i misread Ritchie's post, but Im pretty sure he said they were all from the EXACT location, meaning a static IP.


Also heres a link to what the spam legistlation that was passed covers. This is just a summary but the second link actually is the full wording of the law.

http://www.spamlaws.com/federal/summ108.html#s877

http://www.spamlaws.com/federal/108hr2515.html

 

[Sasheena]

If you know its a static IP why not ban the address instead of the user? Obviously the user banning hasnt worked on this guy......unless i misread Ritchie's post, but Im pretty sure he said they were all from the EXACT location, meaning a static IP.

I believe they are users of AOL which all users have the same IP... therefore the only way to deal with it is to either ban all AOL users, or just do the research as each case pops up.

As far as the topic of this thread... first let me say that I believe that North Florida Zoological is indeed contrite that they have offended ANYONE with their email list.

Having said that I must say that ANYONE who emails a price list or a "buy from me" type email to someone who has NOT REQUESTED it is sending SPAM. While they may be sending it only to a target audience (as all spammers try to do, which baffles me when they want to sell me viagra, cialis, penis enlargment, or whatever... as I'm a female person)... the point is that they are sending it to people who DID NOT ASK FOR THE EMAIL. It is a FOUL business practice and "removing people who request it" is forcing people to have to do something to STOP the email which should never have been sent to them in the first place.

Rich has voluntary newsletters for those interested in learning about his specials. I've signed up for it, and I don't mind getting it. I asked for it. But I hate and detest email that I haven't asked for. I hate the scum who think they can sell me on a mortgage, just because they have put a period in the middle of the word so that my spam filter won't know to dump it in the trash can.

I think it's especially detestable (and this is the topic of herp related spam) because it leaves a lot of herpers with NO CHOICE but to have to realize each time that it is spam. You can't put herp related words into your "dump in trash" list because you'll miss some important emails.

Again, I believe that the apology was sincere, but I did feel the need to express my feelings on the TOPIC of spam.

 

[smart_ask]

JMO

Sounds like these guys made a bad business choice and possibly have learned from their mistakes. I think everybody is touchy about spam but I don't believe these guys are a part of the major spam scum they mostly appear to be just some under informed newbie to retail salesmen looking for their market. Sounds like a mistake, that they are currently aware of, lets see what they do with it now. I believe everybody screws up sometimes its how you "fix" it that makes the all the difference. They can turn this BOI thread into a positive if their actions are swift and deliberate or it could be the anchor that takes them to the bottom.

Mark .... Thank You for the heads up
Mickey & Mike .... The balls in your court, Good Luck
Ryan .... Bye Again
Ritchie .... Good Job as always

Respectfully,

 

[Wilomn]

Re: North Florida Zoological

My name is Mickey Arnold. My partner (Mike Welker) We got the list from another breeder
Thank you, Mickey Arnold

I did VERY little business with any breeders last year and off the top of my head I don't think any of the ones I did do business with would sell/give my email address to someone else.

Who is this breeder that you got my email address from? If he gave you mine it's only fair for you to tell me who he/she is in return.

Wes Pollock

 

[TheVipersHouse]

im gettin their suposed wholesale pricelist SPAM

i keep getting their suposedly wholesale pricelist sent to me matter fact i just got another 1 like 2 days ago i guess my non response to it isnt enough ill have to email them as well and tell them to remove me from their spam list ... would've been nice for them to email me 1st and ask me if i was interested in their list but nope they just send it away ..and away i delete it lol

GL in your ventures North Florida Zoo but u should really reconsider how you go about trying to get business drummed up ...

 

[Cruciform]

The problem with having to reply to spam in order to be removed from it is that when you reply you are verifying to the spammr that there is someone reading email at that address.

That makes the address valuable for resale or additional spam.

Another verification trick is called a "web bug", where a small 1 pixel image is linked from the email sent to you. If your email software opens images automatically, it connects to their webserver and downloads that 1 pixel image with a unique name identifying it as being attached to your address.

So, realistically, any spam that makes it into a persons inbox is an inconvenience. They're trapped in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario". If they don't do anything, they'll probably get more spam. If they request to be removed, there is a very good chance they will get even MORE spam when the address is verified and resold.

The CAN-SPAM act isn't any use at all against those who use overseas mail relays in china and russia, and it also has rather large loopholes allowing several industries to spam with impunity as well.

If a company decides they need to get into email marketing, I suggest the "one time" approach. I have had companies use this approach with me and appreciate it.

They email you once, and one time only, stating the nature of the business and full disclosure of their operations, phone number etc. Then they say that if you would like to receive future mailings from them, please respond to the mail itself or go to a link on their website. If you don't respond, you don't get added to their new list. It's a passive removal system that lets you ignore mail you don't want, and lets them see who really wants to hear from them. It's a bit more work for the retailer, but they don't run the risk of alienating clients.

Too many e-mail marketers take the easy way out and just take a database of addresses and mail them without dupe-checking or even being aware of who their targets are. That's no way to run a business. Treat email business as you would any face to face dealings, and the headaches for all will decrease.