Spectacular Radio Show on Keeper's Rights & Fights

[Taking Up Serpents]

Here we go again. Rodeny went off about micro chipping and USARK's Best Managment practices. Truth be told there are no mentions of chips or fees and licenses in ARK's NC model legislation.
It basically calls for secure caging, "locking/latching enclosures and transport containers" for venomous, big constrictors and crocs/gators. What's the big fuss? Even Sterilite/Rubbermaid tubs have latches on the lids before you pull 'em off to go against the heat tape better.
It's just common sense. No one wants any of those listed animals above in a tank with bricks or books making it secure.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Here we go again. Rodeny went off about micro chipping and USARK's Best Managment practices. Truth be told there are no mentions of chips or fees and licenses in ARK's NC model legislation.
It basically calls for secure caging, "locking/latching enclosures and transport containers" for venomous, big constrictors and crocs/gators. What's the big fuss? Even Sterilite/Rubbermaid tubs have latches on the lids before you pull 'em off to go against the heat tape better.
It's just common sense. No one wants any of those listed animals above in a tank with bricks or books making it secure.

i agree that usark didnt put in frees and micro chips for andrews state but this is right from the email usark sent me the other day and this it what started the whole complaint on my part. if you read it you can see where it says registration and micro chips. please read it and let me know what you think about it.

why would andrew wyatt suggest registration and micro chips for other peoples states and not his own

USARK rejects the designation of "Dangerous" to describe to any reptile. We understand that there are occupational risks involved in the captive husbandry of the largest examples of five large snake species, and venomous reptiles. It is the position of USARK that only experienced and serious keepers should work with these animals. However, it is important to consider that there is no evidence to suggest that these risks are any greater than those associated with working with other traditional types of livestock or pets - indeed, the measurable risk is significantly less. USARK has developed model legislation that can be enacted at the state level to ensure that keepers working with certain reptiles adhere to strict caging standards, safety protocols, escape prevention plans, registration and micro-chipping.

and this is why i say usark is selling out the big snake venomous and croc keepers. as you can see it says certain reptiles. they only want bmp's writing into law for certain reptiles.

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

Other than laws like the proposed one in Ohio, most are only targeting the big snake, venomous and crocs. That is why the focus is on them. They are not selling them out or throwing them under the bus, whatever you want to call it.
Chipping is done in Florida and I agree with it there. Any where possible to have escapes live annually should consider some sort of tagging. So the mention of chipping and registration is already done in some places of major concern such as Florida where animals can survive. That's as far is it goes. I have read it in text and heard it from the ARK; they do not push for bans; any of the above you mentioned is the line in the sand. It's the most you will get out of them.
To say that owners of retics and venomous are selling themselves out doesn't make sense. And to not acknowledge that there are those out there with no business of having a reptile of concern is shortening the rope around our collective necks. Standards need to be set in caging and management. What is wrong with a sheet of listed venomous in a keeper's room and their anti-venoms for first responders? What's wrong with latching or locking doors on enclosures? No one is going to inspect it unless enough complaints are filed with local animal control/law enforcement and a red flag is raised.
Should these standards be advocated nation wide? Yes. Should every state have to chip their animals? No. Only those that live in states with hospitable climate and conditions should consider chipping their foreign species.
If you can agree to that and bite protocols for hots, caging standards for them and the big constrictors (boas are not bigguns) and crocs are sensible then you really don't have to be afraid of anything USARK is doing. Did that clarify much? Because we really don't need to be going at each other at a time like this with all eyes on us.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Other than laws like the proposed one in Ohio, most are only targeting the big snake, venomous and crocs. That is why the focus is on them. They are not selling them out or throwing them under the bus, whatever you want to call it.
Chipping is done in Florida and I agree with it there. Any where possible to have escapes live annually should consider some sort of tagging. So the mention of chipping and registration is already done in some places of major concern such as Florida where animals can survive. That's as far is it goes. I have read it in text and heard it from the ARK; they do not push for bans; any of the above you mentioned is the line in the sand. It's the most you will get out of them.
To say that owners of retics and venomous are selling themselves out doesn't make sense. And to not acknowledge that there are those out there with no business of having a reptile of concern is shortening the rope around our collective necks. Standards need to be set in caging and management. What is wrong with a sheet of listed venomous in a keeper's room and their anti-venoms for first responders? What's wrong with latching or locking doors on enclosures? No one is going to inspect it unless enough complaints are filed with local animal control/law enforcement and a red flag is raised.
Should these standards be advocated nation wide? Yes. Should every state have to chip their animals? No. Only those that live in states with hospitable climate and conditions should consider chipping their foreign species.
If you can agree to that and bite protocols for hots, caging standards for them and the big constrictors (boas are not bigguns) and crocs are sensible then you really don't have to be afraid of anything USARK is doing. Did that clarify much? Because we really don't need to be going at each other at a time like this with all eyes on us.

the problem i have with it is it opens the doors for a ban. rules will not prevent anything. look at FL they pushed for a ban when that two year old was killed and they already had strict rules in place.

you need to keep in mind that the people pushing for these rules. stated with trying to ban all reptiles, all small mammals, most birds, and some fish.

then it was all 30 species of pythons

then it was the big 9

now its bmp's for states

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

No laws open the door for bans. That is why HSUS has focused on Ohio, there Are no regulations there other than USDA for big mammals and that only applies to breeders or exhibitors. It is the lack of regs in Ohio that have it in the crosshairs. It is easier to write a ban on a clean slate (no regs) than to try and scrap existing laws and push for new ones. A lot of lawyers involved in the latter. Draws out the process and make sit harder and longer. Make sense? Okay.
Basically it comes down to this- It's regulate ourselves or be banned by AR efforts. Which would you prefer? Us write our own laws or have them do it for us? You not dumb; you know how it will go down my friend. What we're doing is called 'saving face' and damage control. Pre-emptive, proactive and self policing.
Let's look at the model legislation in NC. If HSUS or API/Born Free, whoever came into the state and said "we want to push for a reptile law" then NC law makers will say "Why? We already have one and it works great. See ya!"
Law makers don't sit around thinking of ways to burden constituents. A group approaches them and says they have a concern. Law makers look into it and see if there is anything they can do to better the situation. If our community sets up a law that is easily complied and common sense practice by ourselves then it blocks efforts by opposing groups.
Everyone bring up guns and the NRA so let's take a look. Years back they wanted to ban certain guns and NRA wasn't having it. End result was the 7 day waiting period. How did it hurt the gun community? It didn't. BMPs are the same effect of that waiting period. Since the 7 day deal was made the issue virtually disappeared and firearm enthusiasts carried on about their business.
You mentioned you have to be licensed in your state. If teh ARK pushe dto exchange your law with the NC model legislation you would actually come out better. Hots were totally illegal in NC before without jumping through impossible hoops (experience time recorded in apprenticeship, million dollars of insurance bonds, impossible other tricks that prevented keeping) but under current law, as long as you follow BMPs for this state; your good to go.
Keep in mind I have debated these issues with AR nuts. I have heard every excuse they can come up with and taken them to task on all of it. They don't care about science, statistics or even common sense. I' have been kicked off and deleted from their sites and pages from showing the truth. They don't care about facts as much as we do. And fact is without USARK we are in dire straits.
Do you know the history of the ARK and how it came to be in NC? It can help to understand the direction it's taking.

 

[twohy4you]

I have been to Terry's reptile shop and even wrote a BOI about the animals conditions and how the enclosures were filthy. I stopped in there a second time and it was a little cleaner (fresh bedding, no old sheds etc.)
But even though there were bad conditions the first time I do have to stick up for the man. I don't have thousands and thousands of dollars to fight this ban and neither does most of the reptile community. He is willing to contribute alot of time and money to keep this law from taking effect. He has a bad rep, so what. Anybody that is willing to make it a priority to fight for our rights gets an A in my book. Unless you have thousands of dollars to donate to keeping this bill away, I don't think anyone should knock him, those in Ohio(myself included) should stand up and help. Just my opinion.

 

[Mister Internet]

Your show sucks, period. Your childish rants of "F JMG" and "JMG Sucks" "those gecko people", "this old curmudgeon of a man", laughing about how you blocked his banner at the show etc on your "NARBC In Review" show disgusted me. JMG is one of the most cutting edge breeders in our industry, not to mention they are honest, straightforward, decent people, and the way you made fun of them (not to mention the profanity that litters your shows!) and the way you talked about them on your radio show showed your immaturity, your stupidity, and your extreme lack of professionalism.

These are not the type of people we want representing us as professional herpetoculturists.

This is the show I refer to above, fast forward to 28:54-
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/urbanjunglesradio/2011/10/15/ujr-presents-narbc-in-review-conquering-hamburg-more

Well, THAT was educational...

 

[KelliH]

My post or their awful radio show?

 

[Mister Internet]

My post or their awful radio show?

Your post... I did not find anything of educational quality in that particular show. I really wasn't sure what to make of it... I have a heard time believing they have such a large listernership, based on how they talk and how they treat people. It just seems sad that with so many enemies a the gates, people would be so cavalier about thrashing their fellow hobbyists for no good reason. That was no good-natured ribbing, they were literally mocking him and gloating about ruining his convention experience. It all seemed very.... juvenile, to me.

 

[radera5]

the problem i have with it is it opens the doors for a ban. rules will not prevent anything. look at FL they pushed for a ban when that two year old was killed and they already had strict rules in place.

you need to keep in mind that the people pushing for these rules. stated with trying to ban all reptiles, all small mammals, most birds, and some fish.

then it was all 30 species of pythons

then it was the big 9

now its bmp's for states

No buddy, that's already happening in case you haven't heard...

Andrew didn't OPEN any doors for bans. He actually seems to be trying to control "how far" the doors are going to open. No one needed any help proposing bans. They supposedly got that help from the nut who let his mammal's out then killed himself. That is when they got real serious about ban talks.

 

[rodneynboalich]

No buddy, that's already happening in case you haven't heard...

Andrew didn't OPEN any doors for bans. He actually seems to be trying to control "how far" the doors are going to open. No one needed any help proposing bans. They supposedly got that help from the nut who let his mammal's out then killed himself. That is when they got real serious about ban talks.

well the thing about that nut that killed himself is the case is being investigated as a homicide. the gun was found 15ft away from his body and there were locks cut of the cages and wholes cut in the fences.

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

May we see your source on that? Because it is new to me that is is being investigated as a homicide. Or that it is being kept open at all for that matter; suicides tend to be case closed.

 

[radera5]

well the thing about that nut that killed himself is the case is being investigated as a homicide. the gun was found 15ft away from his body and there were locks cut of the cages and wholes cut in the fences.

That wasn't really my point though. I was saying because of that incident, be it a suicide or homicide, THAT is what started the serious ban talks. Not Andrew. Andrew didn't open the door there.

See my point?

 

[rodneynboalich]

That wasn't really my point though. I was saying because of that incident, be it a suicide or homicide, THAT is what started the serious ban talks. Not Andrew. Andrew didn't open the door there.

See my point?

yes i see your point ill talk to terry today and see if i can find out more on the case and also see how everything went yesterday. he was meeting with a lot of people yesterday.

 

[noahboy]

Unbelievable

I never thought I'd see Americans who actually thought they needed someone else to regulate them; actually telling them what to do and how to do it. Sheeple. At 24 years of age, I now understand why sally-dog uses Google as her source of information. If you had done the hard work, you would have found out that Mr. Wilkins' pet shops have NEVER been cited by any regulatory authority. Obviously his pet shops pass muster with the folks that can shut him down. This information is public record. His "criminal" record is also public. You should try looking this type of information up before bad mouthing someone you obviously only know through a Google search engine. Three days for refusing to PIT tag his daughters turtles. Which, by the way, were not even native to Ohio. As far as owing the government money. Try looking that one up too. Public record. Whistleblower case. Again, doing the right thing, exposing millions in fraud and abuse. Please do your homework before attempting a character assassination on someone you do not know. Leaders, like color bearers, are always the one shot at first. I will attribute your uneducated comments to your youth and ignorance. Please do not expect an ongoing online conversation with me as I have much better things to occupy my time. At the moment it so happens to be stopping proposed exotic regulation in the state of Ohio---without compromise!

 

[Lamprophile]

I've been to his store (Morse Rd.) on many occasions. Witnessed dead animals in 'vivariums' with dead plants. Witnessed alligators in tanks so small they could not turn around, lying in opaque, shit brown water that they could not get out of (no basking platform). If he wasn't cited for animal neglect *at the least* then that's the fault of the local law enforcement/humane societies, etc. I know that he's been reported to them many times - I called them myself, when I saw the dead animals in the cage.

Maybe at age 24, you need to look into things a bit more before calling people 'sheeple'. I did my homework, by having first hand knowledge of Captive Born Reptiles - via having gone there many times myself. Maybe you need to do more research yourself before speaking about things that *you* don't know anything about.

 

[sally-dog]

I've been to his store (Morse Rd.) on many occasions. Witnessed dead animals in 'vivariums' with dead plants. Witnessed alligators in tanks so small they could not turn around, lying in opaque, shit brown water that they could not get out of (no basking platform). If he wasn't cited for animal neglect *at the least* then that's the fault of the local law enforcement/humane societies, etc. I know that he's been reported to them many times - I called them myself, when I saw the dead animals in the cage.

Maybe at age 24, you need to look into things a bit more before calling people 'sheeple'. I did my homework, by having first hand knowledge of Captive Born Reptiles - via having gone there many times myself. Maybe you need to do more research yourself before speaking about things that *you* don't know anything about.

The bolded part is what I'm saying. There are no laws in place to state bare minimum requirements in regards to care and housing.

Also, I have been doing reptile demonstrations for the past two years for the public, in an insured and secure venue. I do them every year. The public likes them, and they are curious about them. So, I am doing my part. I may not have been doing it long, but I would like to continue. Perhaps maybe a legislator would like to see my work this year, or hear about my presentations. I try and invite them every year. Several of my town's council people attended. Of course, they do not work at state level, which is what these laws are targeting (entire states).

Saying I have been using Google for my information is silly. Everyone uses it! It led me straight to the firsthand experiences of those who have seen this man's business practices, of which there are several accounts of, from multiple people over the years! What more do I need to know? I know if I had seen the same things (and I have in my own state) going on at a store, I would report it (and I have). These are practices this man can currently get away with given the laws in the state.

And my age? I have done more with animals on a professional level than most people my age. So, I think age has nothing to do with it. That's just grasping for straws.

Anyway, I'm glad I got someone to chime in against me! Looks like they made an account showed up just to post about me! I wonder if Terry set him?

 

[Taking Up Serpents]

Let me get this straight

You are 24. You are dead set against any compromises even logical ones set by fellow keepers.
You're still single aren't ya?

 

[mbm6]

The issue is not Terry Wilkens store it is his message.

I have known Terry Wilkens for 27 years. Listen to the message he is against the regulation because there is no reason for more regulation. The public is not is danger in Ohio from exotic animals the states own statistics back that fact up. If people were regularly being attacked by Anacondas on Main Street we would all be in favor of regulation. That is not the case. Terry pointed out that it is far more dangerous to be near a golf course and get hit and injured or killed by a golf ball than by all the exotic animals that exist in Ohio combined.

We would all be safer if cars could not travel faster than 25mph and everyone wore a helmet everywhere they went. All sports were outlawed. No race tracks. No guns. No alcohol. Imagine how safe everyone would be!!

 

[sally-dog]

You are 24. You are dead set against any compromises even logical ones set by fellow keepers.
You're still single aren't ya?

Are you talking to me, or the other guy? Because I'm totally for logical compromises.

I stated before; I DO agree with his message. However, was he the right person to parade around on a popular radio show? No... and that was the original problem myself and others have had.

I think most keepers agree that the laws on the books (if the State in question has not already dictated such) should be set up to be simple, practical, and easily enforceable. Off the top of my head I can think of a few simple principles that would be of benefit to reptiles, specifically. These things are simple and enforceable, like...

-an adequately sized enclosure for the animal to turn around in and move on and off a heat source,
-a certain number of animals allowed per cage (no overcrowding),
-clear water for animals to drink, soak or swim in,
-a secure locking mechanism on the cage (not bricks, weights or books, as was otherwise stated),
-No gaps or holes in an closure where an animal can find a route to escape,
-and proper protocol and tools for venomous animals.

That's all I can name off the top of my head right now. None of it includes things like microchipping, that some people are worried about. I like the idea of microchipping in states where escaped animals can thrive, but not all animals can be tagged. They have to be over a certain weight and girth, and several species of venomous snakes aren't large enough to be chipped safely.

Most of us all do those things any way, so what's so bad about putting it on the books? The only people who would be punished or reprimanded would be those who cannot, or refuse to follow the most BASIC husbandry requirements?