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Spider X Yellow Ghost Question

xtreme_visions

xtreme_visions

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IM NEW TO BALL PYTHON'S AND WOULD LIKE SOME HELP WITH THE FOLLOWING. I HAVE A CHANCE TO GET A HET GHOST. I NEED SOME HELP UNDERSTANDING A FEW THING'S. THE HET IS A NORMAL. THE FATHER IS A "SPIDER" (CO-DOMINATE GENE) AND THE MOTHER IS A "YELLOW GHOST" (RECESSIVE GENE). I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR SOME EDUCATED EXPLANATION'S ON WHAT EXACTLY THIS MEAN'S AND WHAT MY POSSIBILITIES WOULD BE IN THE FUTURE AS FAR AS BREEDING GOES AND WHAT GENE'S THE HET WOULD CARRY EXACTLY. ALSO ARE THERE ANY DISTINCTIVE PATTERN'S OR MARKINGS THAT WOULD VERIFY THE GENE'S IN THE HET GHOST.

I CHECKED OUT THE SELLER ON THE BOI AND HE HAS A GREAT REPUTATION. THE HET GHOST ALSO COME'S WITH COMPLETE DOCUMENTATION AND A PHOTO ID.
 
Since the animal is not visibly showing the spider coloration it does not carry any of the spider genes as spider is co-dominant(its always visible-no such thing as het spider)
The animal caries the genes for ghost only if its a 100% het
 
HOW CAN I DETERMINE IF IT IS A 100% HET? WOULD THE FACT THAT THE MOTHER IS A YELLOW GHOST MAKE IT 100% HET YELLOW GHOST?
 
Since a het spider is a visible spider you know that this normal looking snake doesn't even have one copy of the spider gene.

I would ask if the mother is a proven genetic ghost or an unproven import. I would imagine that most of the ghost looking imports will prove but to be really 100% sure that the baby caries a gene for a genetic ghost you should confirm if the mother has been proven homozygous for a genetic ghost strain or was produced in captivity from a proven strain.

I've heard of one case and even seen a case of a het ghost shedding clear just like a ghost. However, I believe that most het ghosts do leave the normal dark pattern in their shed so that isn't a sure fire way to confirm a het ghost.
 
There is no way to know the baby you purchased is a 100%het ghost, unless you believe that the mother really was a ghost. If she is a ghost, then your baby is 100% het for ghost, regardless. If the breeder is a ripoff, you probably have a normal baby. No markings will set it apart from others, wont distinguish it as a normal or het.
 
But how many people are selling "hets" from unproven imported ghosts? I think it is common even among respectable breeders to sell "hets" from unproven ghosts. I would bet most of them will prove but I would ask some questions about mom's background even if they are saying she was a ghost and hence this baby is a het.
 
Yeah, you defenitely should get a backround. Besides, you need to know what strain of ghost she is, so you can get a het mate of the same strain. There are a lot of strains that arent compatible.
 
Have you heard of an incompatible breeding where both ghosts where already proven genetic?

I suspect that some of the cases which have led to the widespread belief of incompatibility have involved at least one imported animal that might not even be genetic. It might even be that all proven genetic lines currently being sold as ghosts are compatible with each other.
 
I know there are some proven lines that arent cimpatible. I heard orange ghosts are compatible with everything, but there are like, 3 or 4 lines that cannot be crossed. Just get dbl het for ghost.
 
HET YELLOW GHOST

HE IS A HET YELLOW GHOST FROM A SPIDER X YELLOW GHOST BREEDING. WHAT EXACTLY SHOULD I QUESTION IN TERMS OF THE YELLOW GHOST MOTHER? MAYBE ONE OF YOU GUYS CAN GIVE ME A LIST OF QUESTIONS THAT WILL COVER EVERY ANGLE SO I MAY ASK BREEDER.
 

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I'd ask him...
Is the female a proven strain of ghost?
Who was the breeder of her?
What strain of ghost is the female?
If he cant answer the second one, oh well but he should provide a location he got it from.
You need to know the 1st and 3rd answers though. Too sketchy if he cant answer those 2, then it is probably a wild caught new line ghost, and unproven.
Good luck with this.
 
"there are like, 3 or 4 lines that cannot be crossed. Just get dbl het for ghost."

Michael,

Do you have any details of who all has produced double het ghosts and the source of the adults?

I think a lot of the incompatibility apprehension goes back to a cross the Barkers made years ago. Apparently the original animal for which they coined the term ghost was a little different from what we call ghosts today. I think it was described as having an odd feel to its scales too. I'll have to check my e-mail on another computer but I did ask Tracy about it once and I can't remember if it was even proven but I'm pretty sure they aren't working with them anymore and I'm not sure if anyone is working with that line. Even if that original “ghost” was genetic it sounds like it should be quite visibly different from any of the current ghost lines.

Other than that the only other ghost X ghost cross I've heard of that didn't produce ghosts was a bunch of imported ghosts that Greg Graziani crossed a few years back.

I'd love to know if there are any cases of proven lines of what we now call ghost not proving compatible. I suspect that most if not all of the cases of reported incompatibility involved at least one imported ghost. I wonder if there is some non-genetic condition that can sometimes make an animal to look like a ghost and if all the proven genetic ghost lines might actually be compatible.
 
Randy,
So if you breed a yellow ghost to an orange ghost will the offspring you produce be yellow ghost, orange ghost a mix of both or a blended color? Has the desert ghost been bred to the other lines?

thanks
Mark
 
I've not produced any ghosts yet much less crossed lines.

I suspect there are people out there who have both yellow and orange ghosts and could answer this question so hopefully we will hear from them.

My guess is that you would get a mix of colors just as normals have different degrees of yellow and orange. There may be multiple genes that determine the degree of yellow or orange in normal or ghost ball pythons and it may or may not be easy to predict how such lines mix.

I just haven't heard any documentation of proven genetic lines of ghosts not being compatible but then again I don't know for sure that there have been breeders willing to test it. I think I did read something to the effect that NERD might have tried crossing different lines but I'm not sure.

I know almost nothing about desert ghosts and they may well be a totaly different thing than the different shades of regular ghosts. Tracy Barker reports that her Desert Ghost is simple recessive.
 
No, breeding 2 recessive animals like yellow and orange wouldnt give you yellows, oranges, and a blend.
More than likely, you'd be getting more oranges.
Orange strains, atleast the proven ones seem to be compatible with just about every form of ghost, atleast all the ones it has been bred with.
 
"Orange strains, atleast the proven ones seem to be compatible with just about every form of ghost, atleast all the ones it has been bred with."

By compatible I assume you mean that by breeding an orange ghost to another ghost (yellow, green, butterscotch, etc.) that you get all ghosts (of some type). If so, this indicates that they all ghosts within this group have a mutation of the same gene. If the orange ghost was bred to a ghost with a mutation of a different gene it would produce normal looking double hets. It follows that if orange ghost is the same gene as a number of other type ghosts then any combination of those ghosts should be compatible (i.e. if orange X green produces ghosts and orange X yellow also produces ghosts then green X yellow should produce ghosts).

So if there is a group (all?) of proven ghost lines that are the same gene then the question comes as to why they look different from each other.

It could be that they are slightly different mutations of the same gene (alleles). Maybe one version of the ghost gene makes a yellow looking ghost and another a green looking ghost. Regardless of what the ball with one green version and one yellow version of the ghost gene looks like (a ghost but what color?) it should be possible to predict the likely genotypes of the offspring through the generations.

However, it might turn out that all compatible ghosts have the exact same mutation of the ghost gene. It may be that the color is determined by other genes in each line. The same other genes that determine the different general color of normals. It might be that these variations in color are easier to see with the reduced black in a ghost. It’s also likely that bright colored normals have been bred into ghost lines to improve and refine the look. These genes might be harder to predict when mixing lines, there could be any number of different genes and alleles involved.
 
Wow, that's a mouth full.
Anyhow, I have never really studied the ghost genetics, but I'd say you have a pretty solid foundation for a thesis or something.....
Anyhow, I think all the compatibleghosts derived from one main form, which reproduced in the wild, with varrying females, each of which had a distinctive coloration/pattern.
From there, I think each baby het paired with another in the area, from the same sire, and each had the varyed genes from each individual mother, and produced babies influenced by the generation(s) behind them, making distinctive "strains" of the ghost mutation.
 
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