Bad Guy Steffen Hellner Threatening Market Crashing Tactics...

[amos1974]

So Steffen Hellner from Germany had the Black Lace gene reclassified as codom from recessive with out any proof or support from the other breeders that got big groups of Black Lace and Quake genes from Dan Wolfe and have also produced clutches...
there were a group of us that did not like it so we laid out our case on ... We contacted Allen at WOBP and explained it to him and gave him links to the 2 threads (mine and Steffen's) Allen then Agreed to change it back to the way Dan Wolfe left it... I then Messaged Steffen hoping there would not be hard feelings but that was not the case... here I will post the Links to the 2 Threads and then the Facebook PM's... After his last message he blocked me...
Jason Amos

Steffen's Thread:
http://www..net/ball-python-morphs/53995-black-lace-project-way.html
My Thread:
http://www..net/ball-python-morphs/54215-black-lace-name-change-i-do-not-agree.html#post945750


Facebook PM's

 

[lillyorchid]

I don't see how this is a "bad guy" post. There aren't any laws saying someone HAS TO sell a snake at a certain price because everyone else is if they are in the US or not.

 

[amos1974]

file pics

 

[amos1974]

file pics 2

 

[snowgyre]

I think this absolutely deserves a BOI thread. Steffen Hellner is misleading people over the genetics of his animals with incomplete understanding of the genetics between two currently linked traits: quake and black lace. He went so far as to contradict, without actually doing thorough breeding trials, the progenitor of two morphs, Dan Wolfe, who clearly stated that black lace was recessive, not a codominant trait. Then, when confronted with the issue, he resorts to childish threats about overproducing and then intentionally flooding markets? Certainly someone I would not want to deal with. If this is how he handles close scrutiny, how can anyone be sure that he will behave appropriately during a business transaction?

Thank you for posting this, Jason. Unfortunately, the links to the other forum are blocked here. It may be worth taking screenshots of the discussion you had there and posting them for posterity here. There was some good information, as well as photographic evidence, that backed up the idea that Mr. Hellner was getting quake mixed up with black lace in his collection.

 

[Bibulous29]

I still don't understand what he had to gain from this whole thing...

 

[amos1974]

I still don't understand what he had to gain from this whole thing...

I do not either? but I know If my argument would have not been accepted I would have not have tried to bring down the project... That just shows his true colors...

 

[WebSlave]

Thank you for posting this, Jason. Unfortunately, the links to the other forum are blocked here. It may be worth taking screenshots of the discussion you had there and posting them for posterity here.

Sorry, but that will only be permitted as long as no identifying info of the blocked site is in any way shown in the screen captures. All I will say is that this is a personal issue and not subject to negotiation nor an invite to a discussion about it here. Any efforts to bypass this request will result in the offending posts being removed.

 

[Guy Castro]

Don't know why panties are in a wad now, the big joke started years ago with giving the same damn animals, different names. The whole BP world has become a political joke!

 

[Casey Hulse]

I do not think Steffan will do as he says, I believe he is bluffing. I do not know him, but he obviously got his feelings hurt, and is trying to retaliate in some way.
If he does try to hurt any project that he is involved in, he will surely be exiting the scene and following Joe Capone ( Morph King) to obscurity.

 

[John kimball]

I don't see how this is a "bad guy" post. There aren't any laws saying someone HAS TO sell a snake at a certain price because everyone else is if they are in the US or not.

Read the other posts on . He clearly states his intention is to CRASH the US market. If that's not a bad guy here then I don't know what is.

John

 

[Robert Walker]

So Steffen Hellner from Germany had the Black Lace gene reclassified as codom from recessive ... Allen then Agreed to change it back to the way Dan Wolfe left it...

I do not think Steffan will do as he says, I believe he is bluffing.

Facebook texts:
"I have combos with obvious Black Lace in it from pairing a Black Lace with no Black Lace female...Have five females running this season and you bet I will flood the Black Lace market with ridiculously cheap snakes. Same for Nova and Quake...
Steffen"

If Black Lace is recessive and regardless if Steffen has 5 or 1000 females, isn't he bluffing no matter what? If Black Lace is codom then he could flood things sooner than a recessive. I don't know how advanced his collection is but to me on the surface it appears he may yet still be a ways off from attempting his "flood" goal?

 

[Dravorak]

Read the other posts on . He clearly states his intention is to CRASH the US market. If that's not a bad guy here then I don't know what is.

John

Setting aside the issue of whether or not this person can follow through with it. Flooding the market would likely be bad for the businesses, but good for the consumers.
I don't agree with labeling someone a bad guy for making the product more available and cheaper for hobbyists to enjoy.

 

[Lucille]

Facebook texts:
"Have five females running this season"

How much damage can be done with 5 snakes? Sounds more like a trickle, not a flood.
There are so many fancy morphs, plenty for everyone.

 

[snowgyre]

Setting aside the issue of whether or not this person can follow through with it. Flooding the market would likely be bad for the businesses, but good for the consumers.
I don't agree with labeling someone a bad guy for making the product more available and cheaper for hobbyists to enjoy.

It's really a combination of factors that warrants labeling this guy a bad guy. For one, he contacted World of Ball Pythons to change the genetic label of black lace from recessive to codominant. Instead of het black lace and black lace, he got WOBP to change it to black lace and super black lace. Based upon what I've heard from people working on the project, this is completely erroneous.

If he's willing to attempt official name changes with incomplete information, and then rabidly defends those changes with childish threats about saturating the market, does that not warrant a bad guy thread? What if he sold you an animal that he claims is black lace, but in actuality turned out to be a quake (which is what the general consensus is what he is getting confused)? Given how rabidly he defending his stance (especially when he admitted he wasn't quite sure what he was dealing with in the first place), when your animal bred out to be a quake instead of a black lace after a couple of years, I doubt he'd actually make good on his mistake given the personality he displayed here.

Certainly someone who is on my do-not-by-or-sell-from list.

 

[WebSlave]

So if someone crashes a market this year, what does that do for their business come next year?

 

[snowgyre]

I went to that other forum and saved the thread that Steffen started. His username was Pythagoras. It's important to note that you'll see two posts written by him that contain nothing but XXXX. These are posts that he went back and edited for the sole purpose of getting around an administration rule banning the deletion of posts. I'm not sure what he said in entirety during those posts, but he is paraphrased in following posts by other members.

Also note that the post numbers are not consecutive. I did not take screen captures of what I felt were nonessential posts.

Rich, I went through this with a fine-toothed comb and deleted all references to the other website. I hope these captures are alright.

 

[snowgyre]

More posts:

 

[snowgyre]

Another post drop, same thread:

 

[snowgyre]

Final drop: