Stolen Gila, Mike Winzer of Angels R Us

[Alias47]

I apologize.
Steve has answered for himself.

If I had a missing reptile the first thing I would do (before filing a police report) is check to make sure it hasn't escaped...which is what he did.
I agree I would have been at that guys store before the phone was hung up.
And he did state that he went there and the lights were off and the doors locked, THAT NIGHT.

I do not know Steve in the slightest...but I do not agree that harrassing him because of his post is going to help matters either. He has a missing Gila. Another shop owner in the area had one show up two days later. I will take his story as fact, he has some very good references...and I don't feel he merits being interrogated.

I merely restated what was already said in this post. If you choose not to believe Steve for whatever reason that is your right...but the BOI is being filled with a whole lot of negativism and criticism for the people trying to keep the industry standard high. Sure, there are people that use "Bad Guy" posts in the wrong way...and they are usually weeded out...but that does not mean that every bad guy post should be subjected to the intense scrutiny that some people subject them to. This is a guy, with a stolen high-end venomous reptile, just trying to regain his animal. He even offered a reward in the amount of the animals value to regain it...and hopefully prosecute those responsible. I don't see why so many people seem to feel that he is suspect in this case.

 

[Wilomn]

Just because the consensus doesn't agree with some of the actions taken, does NOT make this any less of a crime...or stand to reason that Steve doesn't deserve our full support in recovering this animal and prosecuting the theives.

You are absolutely right.

And as one of those who would like to not only be of assistance in the return of steve's lizard but one of those who will be affected if something goes bad with this, as will all herp keepers, we don't need more bad press, I think I am entitled to ask questions that may not be comfortable, especially as this is NOT his first encounter with stupidity regarding venomous reptiles.

I, just me not anyone else, think that there is something fishy here.

Why didn't he drive to the other store when the guy said he had the Gila? I would have been in my car before he hung up. Something isn't sitting right for me, just me and I'm curious about what happened.

 

[Alias47]

especially as this is NOT his first encounter with stupidity regarding venomous reptiles.

I was not aware of this fact. And I agree that irresponsibly kept venomous reptiles are a HUGE detriment to herpetology.

I would have been in my car before he hung up.

Oh, yeah...me too...with my boots on.

 

[John Apple]

I, just me not anyone else, think that there is something fishy here.

You are not the only one, too many variables here

 

[Dumerils World]

I think you should all put the application for the F.B.I instead of keeping reptiles...........why there is so much hateness in you!!!!!

 

[Wilomn]

I think you should all put the application for the F.B.I instead of keeping reptiles...........why there is so much hateness in you!!!!!

Anyone else want to field this one or should I "splain" it to him in my "oh so tender way?"

 

[John Apple]

Splain it wes cause I think our little 'love' bomber is a bit mis-alligned

 

[Wilomn]

I think you should all put the application for the F.B.I instead of keeping reptiles...........why there is so much hateness in you!!!!!

Splain it wes cause I think our little 'love' bomber is a bit mis-alligned

Well, let's take us a little stroll down Life is Wonderful Lane in dummyland.

Here in dummyland if you get caught doing things in a suspicious manner all you have to do is say "nuh uh, I didn't do that" and all is well, all is forgiven.

Here in dummyland there is NO reason whatsoever to suspect that just because someone is having his SECOND MAJOR problem with a hot reptile that there may be some flaw in either this person's business and/or keeping practices in general or that there is something very specifically wrong with the way this person conducts business with venomous reptiles. Here in dummyland we just put that behind us and forget it ever happened.

Here in dummyland we don't pay attention to details like they do in the FBI nor, and here in dummyland we shudder at the very thought of, THE DREADED FAUNA BOI, where some of the FBI guys go to learn their tricks. (ok, I probably made that part up, but if you've ever seen THE Ferret in action, you'll understand)

Now, dummy, let me edumacate you.

There is NO hateness for two reasons.

First of all, I have no idea what hateness is. I understand hateful, hated, hater, hating, hates, and several other connotations that can be used with this word. You seem to use this word "hateness" to describe some general feeling that you then attribute in general to fauna members in general and active participants of this thread in particular.

This is simply NOT the case. I have never persued anyone out of hate. This also, in a roundabout way, brings up my second point. There is NO hate involved. I use many adjectives to describe how I do ask the questions I do but that is not the point here.

I think you made a mistake. I think you meant to say that there was hatred involved in some of the posts here. I think you think too much of what you think.

Stick around and read for a while, see what happens. See how MANY times someone has come on here as the victim and wound up being the perpetrator.

I do NOT have to trust everything steve says. I did NOT make the mistakes he did. I DO have a vested interest in how he conducts himself in this world I share with him, the world of herps and the selling of them. One more guy getting more bad press is NOT something any of us want. This will be his second go round. There is a problem. This is not a joke.

Find some facts and contribute or sit down, shut up, and enjoy the ride.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Originally posted by Serpents Den

Well in his voice I could hear he sounded very disappointed. I then asked him if I could come down to his store to identify it. He told me that he just got back from the White Plains Show which was a two day show Saturday and Sunday and that he was only at the store to unpack what he brought back from the show and was leaving when I called because he was very tired. I told him that I could be there shortly and he still he refused. At this point I told him not to move the animal anywhere until I could take a look at it and that I would see him tomorrow which would be Tuesday. After we hung up I thought to myself that this was just a way for him to buy a little time to think about what he was going to do and my reason for thinking this is because I’ve heard some negative things about his character in the past and thought to myself that more than likely the Gila would no longer be there on Tuesday and I would get some kind of story as to why it was gone. Becky knew where his store was so we took a ride there Monday night to see if anyone was at the store. We got there roughly 7:15pm and there were no lights on and no sign of anyone being in the store.
We went the next morning around 11am and waited for him to arrive and open. We went across the street and got a slice of pizza. When we returned around 12:15pm.,

Just a quick question about something a number of you have been gnawing at. I read this to say that Steve called the guy back as soon as he received the message that he had just received the Gila. Steve then stated he was coming right over to examine it and Mike then stated he was just then leaving the store and was not willing to wait. Steve then went over anyways and waited until there were signs of life at the store and then confronted him.

Where is this big time lag that everyone is pointing out before Steve attempted to see the gila in question? It sounds like he got over there pretty quick to me.

 

[Dumerils World]

Go and get some life people.......instead of sitting here and complaining about others.....

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Go and get some life people.......instead of sitting here and complaining about others.....

Why all the "hateness" Arthur?

Last time I checked no one is required by any official mandate to visit this forum or read these threads. If what you have posted in your first two attempts at contributing is a taste of what we have to expect, I think I can speak for the majority when I say feel free to occupy yourself elsewhere

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

Fishy?

This question is directed to the people who in their minds find my story fishy. Can you please be more specific in what sounds fishy?

I’m not restricted to house Venomous species where my store is located though it is against local Allentown ordinances to possess many species of reptiles including anything venomous, crocodilians and exotic mammals.

 

[pch101]

Arthur said: "Go and get some life people.......instead of sitting here and complaining about others"

Arthur, The saying is, "Get A life". I also find it ironic that you say that. Have you contributed anything relevant to this thread yet? I would dare to say you have not. I would also say that maybe you should read your own advice and take it. I realize that some people are being pretty hard on Steve, but they have valid gripes. While I feel very bad for him and I feel that Mike is not being truthful, I also feel that this is also a good place to bring up the other issues about the responsibilities evolved in keeping a venomous lizard safely and securely. And yes Jerry the word is venomous as venom is injected. Poison is ingested. Many mushrooms are poisonous. To eat some species can cause illness and even death. You could eat a Gila Monster, and you would be fine. That being said, I do not recommend doing it, as there better things to eat.

 

[Ophis]

Ive eaten Monitor and Fox Bat......I thought they would taste like chicken.......Nope

 

[JAOA49]

Dumby

I dont know maybe its me! But how much common sense does it take to weigh the enormous liability to sell a poisonous snake to an individual of that age to a potential lawsuit that could put you , your business and family in the poor house if death were to occur. Certainly whatever profit was obtained from the sale was eaten up from the first attorneys visit. Have I lost my mind, or is Steve that stupid to jeapordize everything for that kind of a sale that we all know can only lead to trouble.

Maybe I am the stupid one for even pursuing this post, but this is what fuels the haters of the herp industry. The worst kind of negligence that this industry cannot afford nor does not need.

How foolish can you be......? Did you read the whole post? He had the PARENT sign the paper stating that he wasn't responcible for any injury that maybe caused due to a lack of knowledge that this kid actually had none of. First the kid and his parent are trying to avoid the medical bill by saying I DID'T KNOW THIS SNAKE WAS A VENOMOUS ONE. Thats what I would do if I was in their case.... BUT, I know that I signed papers stating that he wasn't in any way, shape, or form responsible for any injury or death.

Second the boy was REALLY STUPID for puting his "FINGER" in the cage knowing he had a good chance of getting bitten.

Third the kid nor the parent did little or no research on this snake. The lack of using a snake hook knowing this was a "HOT" could have prevented this dumb arse from getting bitten. I bet this kid was crying to his mommy all the way to the hospital.... I don't feel a bit sorry for him.

Read before you write a bunch of BS about someone you don't know about. It pisses me off that some people don't get all the facts and complain about how this person didn't do this or didn't do that....

Just my 2 cents

 

[odatria]

... First the kid and his parent are trying to avoid the medical bill by saying I DID'T KNOW THIS SNAKE WAS A VENOMOUS ONE. Thats what I would do if I was in their case....

I think this statement speaks volumes regarding your lack of integrity. Anyone else catch this?

 

[The Reptile House]

It is just sad, seems this never would have happened if you would have had this under lock and key. I am sorry but that was just irresponsible of you in my eyes as a reptile owner in general. If you do get it back please put it under proper lock and key so this does not happen once again. Shanell

 

[RTBoas]

Athur

Look Arthur signed up today and he is from Alllentown!!!

Now that is fishy lol

Steve I'm very sorry bud this has happened to you.

Hopefully the person that stoled the Gila will just give it back.

Steve, I also wanted to mention that you sound like one of the good guys in my book



I'm mad that this stuff happens to good peops

 

[KNOBTAIL]

JACOB, as you can see

even though the parents may have signed a waiver, it still ended up in an attorneys office. Signing a piece of paper means nothing until a judge makes a decision as to its merit. Secondly selling a venomous herp to a parent or a child as this boy was, is plain irresponsible as far as I am concerned. It is an accident waiting to happen. An irreversible poor judgement call on the part of the seller that only hurts the industry in the long run.

I dont know Steve, but I do know the herp business. I also know those who would want to destroy it. This is a perfect example for herp haters and only increase their fuel to show how irresponsible we are as an industry.

 

[nicolai]

me again....

. Secondly selling a venomous herp to a parent or a child as this boy was, is plain irresponsible as far as I am concerned. It is an accident waiting to happen. An irreversible poor judgement call on the part of the seller that only hurts the industry in the long run.

Ok , lets say your right, then i think everyone that sells venemous reptiles should be forsed to get the selled to sign a affidavid to state that they are aware of the requirements of keeping a venemous reptile, and another stating they wont give it to thier children.

If someone ( a adult) wants to buy a venomous reptile should we say no. Are we going to make everything the resposibilty of the seller?? Just how far are you saying the resposibilty of the seller should be?

Secondly selling a venomous herp to a parent I am a parent, I guess I shouldnt be allowed to buy venemous either then right.

As long as you follow your local/state/federal laws the seller has met his obligation to sell the reptile unless there are extenuating circumstances involved with the purchase.

I guess some people on here think there arent enough laws already and think we need more, come on lets all jump on the band wagon.

nor the parent did little or no research on this snake and right there is where the fault lies.they should have done thier research before the purchased it.