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Stolen Gila, Mike Winzer of Angels R Us

Scatch the story about the Gila originally being purchased at a California Reptile Show that won't work so now I was informed it was purchased at the Hamburg Show.
Mike called me earlier but I was not here when he called. I just tried to call him and was told he's not in town.

Intuition, I wouldn't doubt at all if he scapes up a different Gila to show me just to get off the hook.

Upon posting this thread I did inform his employee that I posted this thread and sent them a link.


Mike this can go away if you cooperate and turn these criminals into the proper authorities.
 
Angels R Not

MIKE IS DEFINATELY A SHADY GUY HE BRINGS SICK ANIMALS TO SHOWS HE MISREPRESENTED KEVIN DUNNE SAYING HE WAS DRAGENS DENS EAST COAST REP.. MIKE U BRING A BAD NAME AND VIBE TO THIS HOBBY I PERSONALLY WOULD NOT BUY ANYTHING FROM ANGELS R NOT THEY PRODUCE SICKLY BEARDIES AND THEN PAWN THEM OFF TO THE PUBLIC FOR HIGH CASH. HEARD WAY TO MUCH BAD STUFF ABOUT MIKE AND HIS ANGELS I SPOKE WITH STEVE EALIER TONITE (REALLY DOWN TO EARTH PERSON) HE JUST WANTS THE GILLA BACK STORIES KEEP CHANGING SOMETHING DOESNT ADD UP STEVES EVEN OFFERING A REWARD , HOPE IT ALL WORKS OUT FOR U STEVE mike see u at the next show !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I personally do not think Mike or his "employee" ever traded the Gila back. It sounds like a nice lie to me. My guess is that he will try to have someone else move it for him, or he will work a low profile (non-internet) deal with someone he knows. Again just my guess. It would be good to keep an eye out for this one. I would sure like to see Steve get it back, but I fear that this thread will keep him from posting this Gila on any classified Board. I think he will start calling people he considers friends in an attempt to unload the Gila. Whoever gets it will be getting the Hot Potato so to speak. They should also know that it will be a worthless hot potato, because they will never be able to post it either. If Mike had a brain, he would just return the animal, and be done with it. He could always just say the Kid brought it back.
 
nicolai said:
Good luck at ever getting mike to post on here. i would be very surprised if he came on here to try to defend himself on this one. He screwed Steve and he knows it. Mike should have held on to the gila and refused to give it back to the kid, or had his so called "employee" make sure it stayed there until Steve had the chance to identify it.
If any of you recieved a animal that another dealer/wholesaler/store owner told you they thought it was a stolen animal would then let the person (the person that brought it in) come and remove it from your facility? Talk about bad ethics.
Click to expand...

Totally agree on this one!!!

Steve,
Hope you didn't give this guy an idea about scraping one up from somewhere. In my opinion he is no better than the criminal who stole your Gila. Have the authorities been contacted? Is that why he's out of town?

I really hope you get your Gila back. I hate thieves....in all forms!

Bthacker
 
ahh,

Steve is a good guy, All he wants is his Gila back.

If everyone did the right thing, we wouldn't have a BOI!, (except for positive experiences/dealings)
 
"After replying to Todds e-mail I received a phone call from Rick Krumrine who told me he’s gonna be pissed if his name comes up in this but I told Rick I’m telling the story as is which Mike included him in on. One thing Rick told me which doesn’t make sense to me is he just spoke to Mike but wasn’t sure if he’s spoken to him since being offered this Gila on Monday and Tuesday when Mike opened he said I can call Rick myself as he was aware of the situation."

I'm on track with pretty much everyone here. If I was a Breeder and I received a call from a store that was looking to sell me a Gila, and then later found out that the Gila in question was most likely stolen, I would not tell the person that It was stolen from that I would be pissed If my name came up or was included in the incident at hand.

I don't know why Rick is trying to distance himself from a situation that does not hold him in the bad. Given the story at face value, Rick did nothing wrong. It just seems odd that he would not try to help with locating the stolen Gila and instead, try wash his hands so prematurely.

I do not know Rick and therefore I can not attest to his character but this just didn't sit right with me.

I worked for a pet shop in Cape Coral, Fl. and we had animals stolen a few times (VERY FRUSTRATING!). There was an unwritten agreement between local pet shops that if there were animals stolen that we'd start calling around to see if they'd been approached by someone selling that type of animal. 9 times out of 10, when the person selling the animal was confronted and told that the police were enroute, they would make a v-line for the front door. If I'm not mistaken, one incident resulted in an arrest at Petland. Bottom line, even though we were their competition and them ours, we looked after each other when it came to theft of animals.

Mike Winzer lacks that type of character. I would not EVER do business with him or his company. He facilitated the theft of this animal, even if it was after the fact. A bearded dragon for a Gila......Give me a Damn break!



One Last thing.....If he was stingy enough to give someone a bearded dragon for a Gila, then he DEFINITELY WOULD NOT be kind enough to reverse that trade at the request of a customer.

my $.02
 
Sorry about the loss of the Gila ,bad things sometimes happen to good people.I put a hidden camera with a time lapse video recorder in my auto body shop to record anyone in there after hours to protect my customers belongings and my tools.If anything is missing I can review the tape and have a picture of the bad guy.I hope to hear that you get your Gila back soon.After reading this thread I am going to wire a camera up in my herp room !
 
napavalleysnakes said:
Steve - It sounds like you're getting a Snow-Job on this one. This particular line stuck out to me:

He said he knew that the guy moved here from California and bought the Gila at a show in California.

Everyone out here knows (in California) that Gilas are illegal to sell (native species).... And with all the shows I've done out here, I have never (not once) seen a Gila up for sale !

Hope it works out for you !

Stephen Emerick
Click to expand...

Somebody better tell Bob Applegate and Steve Osborne (he's in San Diego isn't he? though he lists both SD and Montana with his business). You definitely can't sell them at Herps shows, or even to the general public, but in rare cases you can get permits to possess, and even breed and sell them. Among the requirements are 2 years experience with them (how do you get experience, if you can't possess them :laugh: ), references, and meet strict caging requirements etc.

You can buy Mexican Beaded lizards without a permit. As long as local City/County regs. don't prohibit possession.
 
"Apparently, ethics and good morals are irrelevent on the BOI, even if a "bad guy" is a self admitted liar, thief, illegal shipper, etc. at least that's the view of some supposed good guys. "

I was thinking the same thing... There are people here that have very strong opinions. I find their points to be intriguing, and I can see their logic. However, I also find it to be very ironic when their opinions are in total contradiction the opinions that they had last week. That is all I am going to say about that. :bolt01:

Steve, I hope you find your Gila. If and when you do, I would suggest putting him under lock and key. You may want to bolt down your cage as well. Good luck, and keep us posted.
 
Columbia Show

If the gila is still " on the loose ", my guess is someone might try to sell it out of the back of their trunk at the Columbia, South Carolina show this weekend. Lots of hots at the show. The organizers of this show should be alerted to this theft so they can let everyone know to be on the lookout for this animal. Did someone say Mike Winzer was " out of town "?

Roman Grochowski
 
serpentsden said:
I don't have need to mention names but certain individuals bring their own hobby down by not supporting there fellow hobbyist.
Click to expand...

I missed this one when it was originally posted.

steve, you're a piece. let me just say that.

If certain individuals DID NOT keep venomous reptiles in a retail establishment and furthermore was to ACTUALLY keep them under lock and key instead of in a cage with 4 clips on it, NONE of us would be here.

If certain individuals who have ALREADY had problems with venomous sales would get their crap together WE would NOT be here AGAIN.

You've got some nuts there steve, trying to blame ANYONE other than yourself for anything that has happened.

I don't think you're a genuine bad guy but I do think you're a genuine idiot.

YOU make us all look bad. YOU, just you all by your lonesome have gotten how much attention in the last few months? And for what? That's right, you've gotten a lot of attention for two stupid moves. Are ya done yet?

I hope you get your lizard back. I hope I never hear of you again in a negative connotation. Given your track record I will NOT be surprised when you're once again the center of attention for stupidity.

You've got some nerve.

Certain people my a$$.

YOU need to do a better job of representing us. So far you're a great examply of how NOT to sell hots.
 
not agreeing with you on this one WES...

wilomn said:
If certain individuals DID NOT keep venomous reptiles in a retail establishment and furthermore was to ACTUALLY keep them under lock and key instead of in a cage with 4 clips on it, NONE of us would be here..
Click to expand...

Almost all the specialty pet stores in PA keep venomous in thier stores for retail sale.

wilomn said:
If certain individuals who have ALREADY had problems with venomous sales would get their crap together WE would NOT be here AGAIN...
Click to expand...

The problem was with the parents not steve.

wilomn said:
You've got some nuts there steve, trying to blame ANYONE other than yourself for anything that has happened
Click to expand...

The only ones he is blaming is the perspetrators and the pet store owner (MIKE) that has it.

wilomn said:
I don't think you're a genuine bad guy but I do think you're a genuine idiot.
Click to expand...
Your entitled to your opinion but I dont agree with it. It was stored in a enclosure that the lizard couldnt have escaped out of on its own, only with the help of a thief it got out of there.


wilomn said:
Given your track record I will NOT be surprised when you're once again the center of attention for stupidity.
Click to expand...

unnecessary shot at steve.

wilomn said:
You've got some nerve. .
Click to expand...

He certainly does and so would I if people tried to put me in a bad light for something that was out of my control.I blame the parents and the thief.

wilomn said:
Certain people my a$$. .
Click to expand...

Well Wes...sometimes the shoe does fit, and sometimes your proven right in the long run but I dont think so when it comes to steve.

wilomn said:
YOU need to do a better job of representing us. .
Click to expand...

I think that everyone that has ever done business with steve will say that he does a pretty darn good job in the reptile trade.

I know you dont agree with me on this one WES but Steve is actually one of the good guys that had his name in the spot light for two situations that were out of his control. And before you say it..I am not here speaking for him, his can speak for himself, I just felt obligated to do so because it is the right thing to do.

Please Wes if you feel it necessary to reply to this post keep it civil and the sacarsm down to a minimum.( I know thats hard for you sometimes)
 
nicolai said:
Almost all the specialty pet stores in PA keep venomous in thier stores for retail sale.

Please Wes if you feel it necessary to reply to this post keep it civil and the sacarsm down to a minimum.( I know thats hard for you sometimes)
Click to expand...

First of all, whether or not it is legal to have hots in a retail store is not the point. The point is that in this store one was kept in such poor fashion that it was stolen by a customer. There was no lock. It was not in an inaccessable part of the store. This is an accident or theft waiting to happen. This is the move of an idiot.

I have no problems with what happened to the kid. That's on his parents not him and has a thread all it's own. If you wish to discuss that incident, the FIRST incident for steve, please do so in the appropiate thread. YOU nick should know better.

How was that?
 
Wes,
How could you possibly state the following to Mr. Bonn?

quote

I have no problems with what happened to the kid. That's on his parents not him and has a thread all it's own. If you wish to discuss that incident, the FIRST incident for steve, please do so in the appropiate thread. YOU nick should know better.

end quote

Yet in your response to Mr. Markevich, YOU, stated the following.

quote

If certain individuals who have ALREADY had problems with venomous sales would get their crap together WE would NOT be here AGAIN.

end quote

AND

quote

YOU make us all look bad. YOU, just you all by your lonesome have gotten how much attention in the last few months? And for what? That's right, you've gotten a lot of attention for two stupid moves. Are ya done yet?

end quote

In the two previous quotes, were you not inferring, discussing, refrencing from the same thread you encouraged Mr. Bonn to post in? Why is it appropriate for you to discuss it in this thread, but Mr. Bonn should follow the rules and post his observations in the previous thread?

I concur with your assessment that the gila should have been under lock and key. It would prove futile to argue the logic of that observation. I believe that the focus of this thread should be on what we can do to assist Mr. Markevich in retrieving his stolen property. Don't you agree?

Best regards,

Carson Grindstaff
 
I have personally been to both of your stores and locations. I have to say i like serpents den 100% better as you seem to keep a better out look and up keep on your herps. I have also have had better experiences going to serpents den, the gentelman has always been very very knowledgeable and doesn't seem to be hiding anything....if you get what i mean. Mike from angels r us has been sneaky like he had something to hide everytime i have ever spoke with him and hasn't really ever given good info when asked about a herp in his store. Just my opinion tho!
 
I also would have to say the only idiot per say here--which i dont think personally anyone is an idiot and people who name call are the one seeking the needs somehow.
ANYWAYS----If someone would have told me when i called them that they think that it was there herp and i had. The RIGHT and HUMANE thing would have been to call my manager ASAP and say put that thing off the floor in the back for the rightful owner to come and see. Then when the pesky jerk who stole it in the first place came back he would have been in trouble....whether or not i personally like the other person who owns the store or not. Are we cival people here or a bunch of mutants?

It's just insane yuo can't lend a helping hand. That's all.
 
This is bull sh*t

I am sorry to hear about your gila. It sounds to me like that mike guy got a very good deal on the gila and dose not want to give it up. Just keep doing what you are doing and keep posting pictures up of the gila. Mike will slip up sometime or another.
 
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