Subject: Beware of Susan Newman (Mile High Herps)

[snakeconnection]

Subject: Beware of Susan Newman (Mile High Herps)

From the ad she posted on kingsnake.com, she claimed to have 1.1 '03 Het for Albino Limburg Rosy Boas for sale at $500. I sent the money last week and received the snakes last Wednesday. After careful examination of the rosys, I discovered that the she had sold me 2.0 both males. I called her immediately and sent her an email with pictures to prove that the Het for Limburg Albinos are both males.

This is how email thread transpired.

---
Susan,
I received the snakes before 10:30 am this morning. It's funny but one the
females was already out peaking at me when I opened up the box. About the
het for limburg albino pair, I noticed that both of them have spurs.Correct me if I'm wrong but which one is supposed to be the male? Let me know.
garie
----
Are u sure u are seeing spurs and not just the dimples where they are found? I was sure the darker one was a female.....she was sold to me as a female. To be honest...... I never checked her befor shipping to you. When i got her as a tiny baby i checked and saw no spurs. Hummmm this is strange. Please check again on the dark one with a magnifying glass and see if it is really spurs or just the dimples which a female will have. Let me know and we will go from there. Did you like them all? Isnt that Randy Wright Albino magnificent? She is my favorite.
Thanks,
susan
----
Susan,
Both limburg rosys show spurs. I've attached each picture. It looks like I
have 2 males. check the pictures and we'll go from here. the picture DSC09646 is the darker and the DSC09651 is the lighter rosy.
garie
----
Yup looks like spurs to me too. I apologize for that, i guess i was sold a
male as a female too. Honest mistake here. What would you like me to do?
susan
----
I'll go ahead and keep both roys. You can give me a refund for what is fair.
Garie
----
Honestly Garie, both male and female Hets sell for same price. I paid the
same for both of them. I dont know what to tell you......how about $50? Let
me know.
----
-----Original Message-----
From: garie chavez <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:24:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: question about the pair of hets for limburg albino

Susan,
I understand but i have two males and now i have find a female and it will
cost me more money. I could return both to you and get a full refund or
you can refund me $200. That would come out to $150 for each male. I think
this is a fair price considering i bought 4 other snakes from you at
asking price.
garie
-----
He can be used to breed any albino or WW female. I gave you a deal on
all of them below value and i cant do better than the $50. Resell him yourself if you want.
Susan
-----
-----Original Message-----
From: garie chavez <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:26:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: question about the pair of hets for limburg albino

Susan,

go ahead and send $50 to my paypal account at [email protected].
If not, send US postal money order.

I'm very disappointed in you that you will not work with me on this. It is
your responsibility as a reputable breeder to check and verify what you
are selling. You should have known this beforehand.
-----

If you will look at the ad, it says $500 for the pair. Both male and female are
worth the same amount so that makes them $250 each. Refunding you $200 as you ask
means you get the snake for $50. Sorry that is not acceptable. And i have refunded
your $50. Honest mistakes are made all the time. Someone screwed me on that snake
as i paid $ 350 for it as a baby Het. female. You still have gotten quite a deal.
Ask any Rosy breeder.

Susan
[email protected]

----------------------------------------

In her defense, she claimed in our email conversation that the ad says "$500 for the pair". I have the invoice she sent it did not specify her claim. (see attached photo). It stated 1.1 Het for Limburg". Also, I never agreed on $50 refund. I was hoping that she would reconsider the amount and pay me $200 what I have asked for in the previous email. I think this is a fair settlement but she was not willing to settle any more than $50. For those of you out there, I would avoid doing business with Susan Newman of Mile High Herps.

This is the copy of the ad she posted and the other rosys I bought from Susan Newman: Also, the attachment is the invoice she sent with the package.

1.2 WW ALBINO Adult proven breeder Great Color $650/TRIO
1. Bay of LA Adult proven breeder Exceptional $150
1.1 Het for Limburg Albino 2003 very nice $500/PAIR

 

[The BoidSmith]

If you will look at the ad, it says $500 for the pair. Both male and female are
worth the same amount so that makes them $250 each. Refunding you $200 as you ask
means you get the snake for $50. Sorry that is not acceptable. And i have refunded
your $50. Honest mistakes are made all the time. Someone screwed me on that snake
as i paid $ 350 for it as a baby Het. female. You still have gotten quite a deal.
Ask any Rosy breeder.

Honest mistakes happen all the time, true. But they should be followed by honest solutions to those mistakes. The fact that Susan got sold a male for a female has nothing to do with this deal. You paid for a 1.1 and you should receive a 1.1. A $50 refund seems ridiculous, but maybe $200 compensation is not right either. In my opinion you should return both snakes for a full refund.

Good luck!

 

[Wilomn]

Honest mistakes happen all the time, true. But they should be followed by honest solutions to those mistakes. The fact that Susan got sold a male for a female has nothing to do with this deal. You paid for a 1.1 and you should receive a 1.1. A $50 refund seems ridiculous, but maybe $200 compensation is not right either. In my opinion you should return both snakes for a full refund.

Good luck!

You did NOT recieve what you paid for, 1.1. The deal was NOT consumated, you were robbed. It matters NOT AT ALL whether or not she got them as a male/female pair or two males, the simple fact is she sold them to you as one thing and they wound up being something else.

susan, if you don't want your reputation trashed YOU need to make this right. Just because YOU, and it sure seems you KNEW before selling them yourself, got taken, does NOT make it ok for you to ROB someone else.

YOU, susan, should take them both back, pay shipping BOTH ways, and deal with it yourself. Unless he wants to keep one of them for 250.00 or some other mutually agreed to price.

There are some VERY long memories here, LOTS of people come here to check up on folks just like YOU, LOTS of folks who say this site is worthless STILL come here BEFORE they make a purchase. Want to know why?

Because once it's HERE, it's HERE FOREVER.

What's your reputation worth? The water is swirling as I type, you gonna grab the rim and make this right or go on down the drain?

 

[ms_terese]

Also, I never agreed on $50 refund.

I think whether you meant to or not, you did agree to it.

Susan,

go ahead and send $50 to my paypal account at [email protected].
If not, send US postal money order.

With that being said, I don't think $50 is a fair resolution. I think she should secure an acceptable female for you, and when you've received that female, you should return one of the males. The $50 is sufficient recompense for the aggravation on your part.

 

[pch101]

"In my opinion you should return both snakes for a full refund."

I agree!

OK, here is what I know. Garie brought the two snakes in question over today, and I was able to verify that they are both indeed males. I visually sexed them with a loupe and then by probing afterward. In addition, I was less than impressed with the condition of the one that was supposed to be a female. Aside from being a male it was very lethargic and thin. It seemed almost lifeless when I handled it. It is very sad that this goes on. Someone gets screwed on a deal and then they unknowingly do the same thing to someone else, and then when it is brought to their attention they just act like it is OK. She seems to have the attitude of, Oh well, it was honest mistake.

This is only Garie's second online transaction, with his first being a very bad experience with Serpentboy aka: Mike Clark (need I say more). Needless to say, it took him quite awhile before he was able to give it another try, and then BAM! this happens...

I can also testify that Limburg het females are worth way more than Limburg het males. Limburg het males of this size (they were pretty small for 03s) run $150.00 to $200.00 while females run about $250.00 to $350.00. Nobody wants the het males, it is the het females that are in such high demand.

Considering the condition of the hets that Garie received, I would have to say Susan got Garie good. I think he was more than generous when he offered to send them back for a full refund ($500.00) or to just take $200.00 for a refund and keep the snakes. Nobody wants two het males, and Susan would have a very hard time even getting $150.00 for the animal that I saw. I guess it is good for the snake that Garie has it, and that he can get it in good health.

Garie promptly informed her of the problem immediately upon receiving the snakes, and he promptly sent her proof. What more could she expect? Well I guess the answer to that question would be... his hard earned money... This is one heck of a way to treat a guy that just made a $1,300.00 purchase from you. $50.00 is a slap in the face! I am sure glad Susan is not selling rosies anymore. However, she still deals with many different types of Boa Constrictors and Boa Morphs. Let this be a lesson on how her customers are treated when there is a problem with a sale.

 

[pch101]

"With that being said, I don't think $50 is a fair resolution. I think she should secure an acceptable female for you, and when you've received that female, you should return one of the males. The $50 is sufficient recompense for the aggravation on your part."

Susan is not selling any more Rosy Boas, and I think Garie's resolution is More than fair.

 

[pch101]

"You did NOT recieve what you paid for, 1.1. The deal was NOT consumated, you were robbed. It matters NOT AT ALL whether or not she got them as a male/female pair or two males, the simple fact is she sold them to you as one thing and they wound up being something else.

susan, if you don't want your reputation trashed YOU need to make this right. Just because YOU, and it sure seems you KNEW before selling them yourself, got taken, does NOT make it ok for you to ROB someone else.

YOU, susan, should take them both back, pay shipping BOTH ways, and deal with it yourself. Unless he wants to keep one of them for 250.00 or some other mutually agreed to price.

There are some VERY long memories here, LOTS of people come here to check up on folks just like YOU, LOTS of folks who say this site is worthless STILL come here BEFORE they make a purchase. Want to know why?

Because once it's HERE, it's HERE FOREVER.

What's your reputation worth? The water is swirling as I type, you gonna grab the rim and make this right or go on down the drain?"

As always Wes, You said it as good as it could be said! Susan, I suggest you start using your head before Jim O brings out his dreaded Toilet Claw. Once that happens it is all over.

 

[reptilebreeder]

A full refund upon return of the snakes, or one of the snakes is indeed warranted. If one was buying a couple of pets from a pet store, you'de pay the same price because it doesn't matter, but if you want to breed them (and you absolutely would not buy hets, unless you intended to breed, otherwise you would buy cheaper normals, or homogonous morphs), a sexed pair is worth more than two males. For her to say that two het. males are worth the same price as a pair is ridiculous, absurd, laughable. The fact that he spent a decent amount on more animals than those, and she is still being WRONG is sad.

 

[DAND]

Honest mistakes are made all the time.

So are dishonest mistakes. Just because Susan got screwed doesn't mean she has the right to pass her misfortune on to others. An honest mistake should not require much to rectify.

 

[cthulhu77]

quote:"He can be used to breed any albino or WW female. I gave you a deal on
all of them below value and i cant do better than the $50. Resell him yourself if you want.
Susan"


You have to be kidding me !!! Now THAT is sure a dealer I would want to do business with !!!! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot....wow! After a statement like that, her name goes right into the sh*tpile with the others...
greg

 

[Jim O]

Susan, I suggest you start using your head before Jim O brings out his dreaded Toilet Claw. Once that happens it is all over.

I'm getting Susan's sign ready as we speak. LOL.

Susan, make this right. We'll all let it go away if you see the error of your ways immediately. In fact, we might even see you as a converted "good gal". Otherwise you get a sign. Here's the prototype:

Your own personal individual version is being crafted now.

Take the pair back including shipping in BOTH directions as you did not provide what the buyer paid for, which was 1.1 hets. Suck it up and eat it. Sell them as two separate 1.0's and get what you can. Or go back to the person for whom you are brokering them. Your choice. But the problem is yours and the solution is in your hands.

Garie,

Has Susan been made aware of this thread? If not, please let her know about it and also that she can reply for free (no need for a $10 membership) by asking Webslave for that privilege.

 

[pch101]

Actually, I informed Susan last night about the thread, and she came here to read up on it. This situation really bothers me a lot. Garie is one of those guys that does not want to rock the boat or hurt anyone's feelings. He called me and told me about the situation. Now at this point, let me say that I generally work very hard at being impartial, and this situation is no exception. After going over the e-mails, I told Garie to give her one more chance and to e-mail her one last time requesting a proper refund, and informing her that he would take proper action if she chose to refuse. Well, she refussed in a huge way, and got a bit nasty to boot. When I read her last response to him, I told him that he needed to bring it here. He was very reluctant, as he did not want to hurt her business (not to mention that this place can be more than intimidating at times). I explained to him that it was she who was hurting her own business, and that he had a responsability to let others know so as to prevent this type of behavior in the future, and that this may just might cause her to adjust her thinking as well. I assurred him that there were many good people here and told him that they/we would appreciate it. I really hope that Susan does the right thing here. I have contacted her on a few occasions about Rosy boas that she was selling, and she seemed like a nice enough person. Now that I have seen this side of her, I thank my lucky stars that I did not end up buying from her.

 

[Jim O]

Garie,

James makes a good point. This place can be intimidating and can require a thick skin at times. That said, you are the presumed good guy victim and Susan is the putative bad "guy". We will use whatever means necessary to help "educate" Susan into changing her ways and making this right by you.

Now we know she was here last night reading this thread. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and presume for the moment that she is awaiting permission to post here. I can wait 24 hours for her response.

Short of that, her sign is almost ready.

 

[snakeconnection]

Susan and I have worked out this unfortunate situation. Thanks to all of you who responded to this thread and the BOI forum. I appreciate all your efforts.

From Susan's email:

I went back and reread all the threads and then i looked at the situation
from Garies point of view. It was MY mistake in not cking the sex of the Het.
Garie should not suffer for my ignorance. I have sent him another $150 to
make a total of $200, as he originally asked for. I feel badly that he did not
get the pair i thot i was sending him. They are still nice snakes and he can
use either male to breed to the Albino females he got and still get some
gorgeous babies. I wish Garie best of luck in his endeavors with the rosys.

respectfully,
susan

p.s. please do as you see best in posting any of this to the BOI

 

[pch101]

Hold that toilet claw Jim! I just got word from Garie that after reviewing things Susan refunded Garie an additional $150.00
Susan, I commend you for making it right. It is unfortunate that it had to come here for it to work out, but it did, and you did the right thing in time.
Jim, Save that Claw for the next guy/gal that does not make it right. Garie will post the resoultion in a few minutes.

 

[Jim O]

I guess that I'll have to use that sign for the next "bad guy". Good going Susan, and good for you Garie!

 

[snakeconnection]

Jim,

Like the old saying goes, "we could always use some good people in this world." I'm in the herp business to make things right. Honesty is always the best policy.

best regards,

garie

 

[pch101]

Looks like he beat me to it. It is great to see a quick resolution to a situation. Good job to both Garie and Susan for making this work and doing it in a professional manor.

 

[Wilomn]

HA, the BOI has worked AGAIN.

 

[Jim O]

HA, the BOI has worked AGAIN.

Indeed it did!