Sulcata for 13 year old?

[Sirengarg]

So my BF and I have been discussing getting out 13 year old daughter a new pet. She has been asking to buy her own pet she can keep in her room. She's a calm, responsible teen. She helps us out with our 4 dogs, 2 cats, 3 beardies, and breeding populations of corns, balls, and feeder rodents. She mentioned ideas like a chameleon, but I don't feel comfortable with them because of their high needs of humidity/temperature. She's responsible, but still...she's 13. I don't pretend to believe she'll always be good and she doesn't always do chores with a smile and skip in her step If you ever had teens, you know what I mean. She also mentioned a leopard gecko and I like those too. But I think a sulcata tortoise might be a better idea. I like the idea of less crickets.

Looking for opinions on sulcata owners. Best places to buy from. Local pet store sells them, but I prefer private breeders. I noticed one site selling "B grade" saying the shell pattern is broken so they consider them B grade, but its only looks and doesn't effect health. Reptile wise, I've always been more of a snake person. Never owned a tortoise like this. I've had water turtles and they did fantastic. Only had to rehome them due to moving and where I moved to, we could not rebuild a new outdoor pond. Also rehabbed wild box turtles who were hit by cars and attacked by a dog. But I know Sulcatas grow VERY large. We live in Florida and we CAN build an outdoor enclosure for him/her when too big for the tanks. I've read mixed advice on whether they should be fed grasses or greens when young, so I'd like to hear more on that too. I also found a website that sells the grass seed for their native African grasses, I like the idea of growing a little grass garden for him/her. Is there a difference in personality between males and females? And can they really learn their name? I know my water turtles recognized me and came to me whenever I was at the edge of their pond and brought them some treats. So I know there is some intelligence level there for recognition by voice and face.
I also knew someone several years ago who had one. He lived in her home, as a house tortoise. She swears he never had an accident. She would feed him weekly and time it so she'd place him in the bathtub for a day. He'd go the bathroom and then she'd clean the tub and he'd be loose in the house again. Not sure if she was BSing me. A customer came into Petsmart a few months ago with a 2' sulcata with a diaper on. It was an adult diaper they duct taped to his shell when they took him out for social outings or to the vet. Is such a thing even safe to do?

Any other advice and tips would be great. Nothing is set in stone yet. I'm currently 1 week from my delivery date with my 2nd daughter so little bit too much on my plate to get a new exotic very soon.

 

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

So my BF and I have been discussing getting out 13 year old daughter a new pet. She has been asking to buy her own pet she can keep in her room. She's a calm, responsible teen. She helps us out with our 4 dogs, 2 cats, 3 beardies, and breeding populations of corns, balls, and feeder rodents. She mentioned ideas like a chameleon, but I don't feel comfortable with them because of their high needs of humidity/temperature. She's responsible, but still...she's 13. I don't pretend to believe she'll always be good and she doesn't always do chores with a smile and skip in her step If you ever had teens, you know what I mean. She also mentioned a leopard gecko and I like those too. But I think a sulcata tortoise might be a better idea. I like the idea of less crickets.

Well, first off, there A LOT more different herps besides leopard geckos, chameleons, and sulcata tortoises. I suggest you do a lot more research before committing to a large tortoise species. Sulcatas are the third largest tortoise species, with adults often exceeding 100 lbs. They also live very long, several decades. This is an animal you may have to make accommodations for in your will! Perhaps look at other lizard species like bearded dragons, blue-tongued skinks (my personal favs), plated lizards, uromastyx, etc. If your daughter is dead-set on a herp with a shell, may look into Russian tortoises (a LOT smaller than sulcatas).

Looking for opinions on sulcata owners. Best places to buy from. Local pet I noticed one site selling "B grade" saying the shell pattern is broken so they consider them B grade, but its only looks and doesn't effect health.

Kinda sounds hokey to me. IMHO, the shell pattern is a moot point anyway, since as they mature, all sulcatas' shells fade into a wood-grain brown hue. No real pattern or markings once they reach a certain age/size. Sounds like someone is trying to make baby sulcatas something they're not.

I've read mixed advice on whether they should be fed grasses or greens when young, so I'd like to hear more on that too. I also found a website that sells the grass seed for their native African grasses, I like the idea of growing a little grass garden for him/her.

I suggest checking out Tyler Stewart's website for detailed info.

I feed my little squirt shredded veggies (squash, zucchini, bok choy, apples, carrots), supplemented with ZooMed grassland tortoise diet and orchard grass hay (often sold for rabbits and guinea pigs).

Is there a difference in personality between males and females? And can they really learn their name? I know my water turtles recognized me and came to me whenever I was at the edge of their pond and brought them some treats. So I know there is some intelligence level there for recognition by voice and face.

Not sure about gender difference, but they certainly have personality! Mine is still a baby, so he's still shy and doesn't come when called. But he is more open and will come running when I place food on his feeding rock.

I also knew someone several years ago who had one. He lived in her home, as a house tortoise. She swears he never had an accident. She would feed him weekly and time it so she'd place him in the bathtub for a day. He'd go the bathroom and then she'd clean the tub and he'd be loose in the house again. Not sure if she was BSing me.

Personally, I wouldn't do this. You run into issues like: how do you make sure the reptile has access to proper heating/lighting? Also, tortoises and turtles are attracted to colorful things, and may nibble on things they shouldn't. A large tortoise is like a bulldozer, so I'd worry about valuable stuff getting moved, scrapped, nibbled on or knocked over! Hopefully, this woman was BSing you, because tortoise should eat everyday, not weekly!

A customer came into Petsmart a few months ago with a 2' sulcata with a diaper on. It was an adult diaper they duct taped to his shell when they took him out for social outings or to the vet. Is such a thing even safe to do?

I don't think it'd be an issue. Honestly, I would just carry the thing in a large rubbermaid tote. I've seen how much a tortoise can defecate and urinate, and I don't think an diaper would hold it all!
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Again, sulcatas can be quite enjoyable if they are cared for properly. But I truly think your daughter should focus on a smaller herp before committing to a species that can potentially outlive her and outweigh her! Like I said, Russian tortoise have just as much personality, but stay about box turtle-size. Red-footed tortoises are larger, and also, are more hardier than baby sulcatas.

 

[Sirengarg]

Thank you!

What is your opinion on leopard tortoises?

I also didn't like the idea of a complete house tortoise. For the reasons you mentioned. I know people who had house rabbits. I have a rabbit, but would never let him roam the home alone. Besides having dogs and cats who could potentially hurt him, accidentally or otherwise, they chew too much and would easily strip floorboards, drywall, wires, couches, etc. So makes sense a tortoise would nibble and eat things he shouldn't, plus, like I said, I have dogs and cats. I don't care how good my dogs and cats are with my small pets and exotics when I am around, I understand at any given moment, that small pet suddenly looks like a great squeaky toy. Also thought about heating/lighting too being a problem.

What substrate is best with the tortoises we have been discussing? I have mentioned a few other lizard species. We already have 3 beardies and she wants something different. And something vegetarian. I like the uromastyx, but she isn't a fan of them.

You said feeding rock? Do you mean a bowl or do you just place the food on a flat rock?

 

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

What is your opinion on leopard tortoises?

Don't have any experience with them. From what I've read/heard, husbandry is very similar to sulcatas. Although they don't grow as large, they are still quite sizable as adults (larger than red-foots)

What substrate is best with the tortoises we have been discussing?

I use a mixture of cypress mulch, aspen shavings and hay.

I have mentioned a few other lizard species. We already have 3 beardies and she wants something different. And something vegetarian. I like the uromastyx, but she isn't a fan of them.

Another herbivorous lizard is the desert iguana. There's also Solomon Island prehensile-tailed (aka "monkey skinks" or monkey-tailed) skinks, but they're regrettably rare in captivity and very expensive.

You said feeding rock? Do you mean a bowl or do you just place the food on a flat rock?

Yeah, just a piece of slate rock I had laying around. Most bowls are just too difficult for the little torts to access, in my opinion.

 

[MDC_Ophiuchus]

While this isn't necessarily directed at you Crystal, I do want to get this off my chest, as I see it happening more and more....

I fear that sulcatas are becoming to turtles and tortoises what green iguanas are for lizards in the pet trade. More people are keeping them, thus giving them more exposure. The result is that whenever the non-herper who suddenly decides they want a turtle or tortoise, they automatically think "SULCATA!" However, in reality, few people are truly prepared to care for this species. Not unlike green iguanas, they can grow very large in a relatively short amount of time. Unfortunately like green iguanas, more baby sulcatas perish in their first couple years than other tortoise species, most often from improper husbandry. I admit the numbers are likely skewed in account of the fact that because of their increasing popularity, sulcatas are available in much larger quantities, but ah, there's the rub. It almost reinforces my point further.

For a beginner to the reptile hobby, there are a number of less challenging tortoise and turtle species than the sulcata (aka African spur-thighed) tortoise. Russian tortoises, red-footed tortoises, box turtles, ornate wood turtles...these are all smaller and more manageable to keep for a noob. Likewise for lizards, there are leopard geckos, uromastyx, bearded dragons, etc, etc,...all of which are much easier to care for than the ever-popular green iguana.

The key (as always) is research, research, research, to make sure you know what you are getting into.

 

[rcarichter]

I have Hermans and Egyptians. Too small to run free in the house, same husbandry as sulcatas, but in a smaller package. Hermans are considerably cheaper. And, yes, the tortoise is going to outlive you. I'd go for the beardie or blue tongue skink for a teen. But any of these is going to require a large enough habitat for a thermal gradient from 70 to 100 degrees. A full grown sulcata is large and strong enough to do some serious damage to your house and itself.
Congrats on the baby!

Noelle

 

[Sirengarg]

MDC, I totally hear ya there! I had two iguanas. Both I acquired as rescues. Both were found roaming the city, free. The first, I named King Koopa. Full grown mature male. He was not wild though and very tame. He was very social and had free roam of my home most of the time when I was home. I set him up in a dog kennel with lighting for when I could not watch him. He was an amazing lizard. I hated rehoming him. My friends, neighbors and family know I rarely turn an animal away. If I do, I recommend them to someone better suited for that animal...for instance local natural wildlife, I'll get them in contact with a wildlife rehabber. I had to rehome him simply because I didn't have the space or lifestyle for just such a lizard at the time. Had my cousin and her kids living with us and I didn't feel the lizard was safe around her obnoxious children. He was nearly 6ft long to the tip of his tail and the local news got wind of it and came down to take pictures. Got in the paper and on the news for him. And made a point that I felt he was an escaped or maybe released pet, since he was so calm, not wild at all. And how people buy these guys when they are small and pet stores tell them they don't grow bigger than the tank. I rehomed him with a good friend who has had many iguanas over the years...and I got to visit him. He passed away 8 months later of natural causes. Vet said he was pretty old when he was found as it was. A month later, a younger and smaller, but still large iguana was found and my friend brought it to me. He was a bit more wild, but not truly feral. Same friend took him too. She still has him, we named him Yoshi. But Koopa, I SO miss that lizard. I'm in a point in my life that if ever, I found another iguana like him, I'd be able to keep him. But I am not going to buy a baby iguana. Saying if another adult iguana in need of a new home came along that was as nice as he was, I'd take him in a heartbeat.

So yes, I totally understand the whole novelty these animals can give people. I do see less iguanas sold at local pet stores lately. They sell more bearded dragons, chinese water dragons, and uromastyx. I haven't seen an iguana in a local pet store in a few years. I did see Sulcatas sold at a local pet store, IMO, due to their long life and large size, I think its a bad pet to be sold in stores. But then again, I think most parrots are bad to be sold in pet stores too, for the same reasons.

I'm by no means new to herps. I'm just not very experienced in tortoises, hence the thread and my questions. I spend a good 3-6 months of research before getting into a new species. This being month 1 of research. I agree people need to research any pet they want. Be it a hamster or an African grey parrot. I've worked in pet stores for nearly 4 years. Use to work in a mom/pop place. I liked the fact the owners gave me lots of freedom to refuse sales to people I felt were just too damn stupid to buy the animals...to the point I felt the animal would be in danger of neglect or abuse. Like the couple who wanted to buy a rabbit and keep it in a 10 gallon tank. Or the family who said ferrets have no bones so you can't hurt them. I never wanted to bang my head on a wall so many times. But I also got the opportunity to educate people of proper care too. I work at Petsmart as a pet groomer. Don't get involved too much in pet sales, but thankfully, I work in a store that those who do work in that section, actually know what they are talking about. I know too many Petsmart/Petco/Pet Supermarkets who have very uneducated employees. It was funny when I got the job there though, I got it for the salon, but one day the store manager heard me talking to a customer (who grabbed me while I was trying to leave for break), about beardies. I told him all about their care. The store manager fought with the salon manager (friendly fight), about trying to pull me out of the salon and get me on the sales floor, lol. Not gonna happen, but now they come to me for questions and to help teach new employees about care for the animals I know best there.

 

[Sirengarg]

Thank you again all! After continued research, my daughter decided on a blue tongue skink Haven't got one yet. Still discussing it. We never just buy a pet. Its often a long involved, many conversations about responsibility and lots of research. She just had a birthday and got a lot of money and said she would pay for it all.

 

[Floof]

I'll be honest, I just skimmed the thread... Lol. Anyway, just wanted to say, great idea with the BTS!

A much better option for a teenager than a Sulcata, IMO.. Though great, Sullies get BIG and are incredibly destructive. Most definitely an intense life-long commitment. Tortoises are great, and if you guys decide to look into them again in the future, you might check out something like a Russian, which stays small and very easy to care for (as far as diurnal reptiles are concerned), or a Redfoot: interactive, not too big, and would thrive in your climate. http://tortoiseforum.org is easily my favorite resource for any tortoise species.

Anyway, if you haven't been there already, http://bluetongueskinks.net has a fantastic BTS care sheet. They also have a forum. If I'm not mistaken, the owner of the website is a reputable Blue tongue breeder, as well, so might be an option on that front, too.

Good luck with the new venture!

 

[Floof]

Kinda sounds hokey to me. IMHO, the shell pattern is a moot point anyway, since as they mature, all sulcatas' shells fade into a wood-grain brown hue. No real pattern or markings once they reach a certain age/size. Sounds like someone is trying to make baby sulcatas something they're not.

Just noticed this statement in one of the earlier posts.

Usually, "B-grade" or "broken pattern" refers to the scutes (the different "plates" that make up the shell) themselves. They'll occasionally hatch out with "extra" or "split" scutes, a cosmetic deformity that seems primarily linked to the incubation conditions during development. Warmer incubation so far seems to be one of the more likely candidates of the cause, because, likewise, these "b-grade" animals more often than not turn out to be female.

Sorry, just wanted to get it said... I believe Tyler Stewart (who MDC referenced--and rightfully so--in his first post) is one of those that commonly sells tortoises with split scutes as "B-grade" and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if that was where the OP originally saw the term referenced...

 

[Tim Cole]

Thank you again all! After continued research, my daughter decided on a blue tongue skink Haven't got one yet. Still discussing it. We never just buy a pet. Its often a long involved, many conversations about responsibility and lots of research. She just had a birthday and got a lot of money and said she would pay for it all.

Much better choice unless your daughter is a barn builder!