MattP
New member
Albey,
When do you think you'll start selling these? Can I be on your waiting list?
Thanks,
Matt
When do you think you'll start selling these? Can I be on your waiting list?
Thanks,
Matt
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Super Snow Eyes
- Thread starter Albey
- Start date
Manhattan Herps
PROUD Christian
Re: hmmmm winter in fall !
i guess thats one reason why they call em super snows
groovygeckos said:love the stripe ! how in the h&%$ are all of those spots arranged so perfectly ? WOW
i guess thats one reason why they call em super snows
diablohogs
Hogaphile
finally an anery? a proven gentic anery!?
crossing that with all the exsisting morphs should be very interesting. so albey... how big is this "waiting list" for a super snow with black eyes? what price are these fetching?
crossing that with all the exsisting morphs should be very interesting. so albey... how big is this "waiting list" for a super snow with black eyes? what price are these fetching?
You are using the wrong genetic frase in this new mutation. It is not co-dominant, it is an incomplete dominant gene.
Incomplete dominance is a form of intermediate inheritance in which heterozygous alleles are both expressed, resulting in a combined phenotype. In this case you have not a homozygot white supersnow or a yellow normal, you have a faint yellow heterozygot supersnow.
For example, in cross-pollination experiments between red and white snapdragon plants the resulting offspring are pink.
It is a condition that exists when the phenotype of the heterozygote is intermediate between the two parental extremes.
With codominance, a cross between organisms with two different phenotypes produces offspring with a third phenotype in which both of the parental traits appear together.
http://www.all-science-fair-projects.com/science_fair_projects_encyclopedia/Dominance_relationship
Incomplete dominance is a form of intermediate inheritance in which heterozygous alleles are both expressed, resulting in a combined phenotype. In this case you have not a homozygot white supersnow or a yellow normal, you have a faint yellow heterozygot supersnow.
For example, in cross-pollination experiments between red and white snapdragon plants the resulting offspring are pink.
It is a condition that exists when the phenotype of the heterozygote is intermediate between the two parental extremes.
With codominance, a cross between organisms with two different phenotypes produces offspring with a third phenotype in which both of the parental traits appear together.
http://www.all-science-fair-projects.com/science_fair_projects_encyclopedia/Dominance_relationship
groovygeckos
GroovyGeckos.com
ok ?
what is co-dom then ? isnt "co-dom" short for incomplete dominance ? and yes they are saying there are three "types " , a super ( homozygous white &black w/black eyes ) , a snow ( heterozygote w/ some yellow and normal eyes , and a normal ! now what are trying to say ?
what is co-dom then ? isnt "co-dom" short for incomplete dominance ? and yes they are saying there are three "types " , a super ( homozygous white &black w/black eyes ) , a snow ( heterozygote w/ some yellow and normal eyes , and a normal ! now what are trying to say ?
StinaUIUC
New member
Deciding between co- and incomplete dominance can be very difficult...but in most cases its actually going to be incomplete dominance. In the super snow's case, there are two variations of some gene....one of which codes for a faulty protein, one of which codes for a normal protein. What happens with the snow variation is that it codes for a faulty gene that stops yellow pigment production, however there is still a gene that codes for normal pigment production, so when you have a heterozygote, there are still some normal proteins to make yellow pigment, but not the normal amount, and so there is only the faint yellow. Then when you have a super snow homozygote, you have all faulty proteins, so no pigment is produced. This is how it ought to work anyway... With codominance you would get a yellow and white spotted leo...since the final outcome is a blend it should be incomplete dominance. Co-dominant traits appear together on the same animal...for example blue roan horses (I'm going to really simplify this...)...there is a gene for black hair, and a gene for white hair...a horse homozygous for black will be solid black...a horse homozygous for white will be solid white...but when you have a heterozygote, you get a horse with both black and white hairs...if it was incomplete dominance the hets would be grey. Does that make sense?
No, "co- dom" means "cooperating dominant genes" That is two genes on the same locus (read the link I sent before), that works together. This snow is an incomplete dominant gene, means that is one gene that can't work completly with one zygot (heterozygot), it need two zygots (homozygoy) of the same gene to work completely and give the white hue. English is not my first language, so I hope I can explane correct.
But the important is, I think, is to put all of the Leopardgeckos genetics in the right terms from the beginning, otherwise we all wont know what we are talking about. And the beginning is to use the correct words that the genetics use.
But the important is, I think, is to put all of the Leopardgeckos genetics in the right terms from the beginning, otherwise we all wont know what we are talking about. And the beginning is to use the correct words that the genetics use.
groovygeckos
GroovyGeckos.com
hmmmm
it seems generally these incomplete dom. trait (super hypo , super snow , giant ) that are out there people are all called " co-dom " ! as if to mean it short for incomplete dom . i THOUGHT anyway .....well thanx ! so there arent any true co-dom LG traits then ? unless im forgetting something i guess
it seems generally these incomplete dom. trait (super hypo , super snow , giant ) that are out there people are all called " co-dom " ! as if to mean it short for incomplete dom . i THOUGHT anyway .....well thanx ! so there arent any true co-dom LG traits then ? unless im forgetting something i guess
StinaUIUC
New member
Yeah...I never even really thought about it...but now that I am I don't think there are any actual co-dom leo traits out there...at least not one that I can think of either...
groovygeckos
GroovyGeckos.com
i really wonder
why so many people use that term co-dom for short (it seemed) when they are talking about incomplete dom. then ?
why so many people use that term co-dom for short (it seemed) when they are talking about incomplete dom. then ?
StinaUIUC
New member
Most people don't know the difference...and since they really are so closely related, it's not a huge mistake to make...it really doesn't change anything...people basically use it to mean that there is a third phenotype for the hets.
Most people don't know anything about genetics, so when they pick up a word they here they use is, even it is right or not. The only true genes is amelanistic/albino, blizzard, nonpattern/leucist (all recessiv) and this new one supersnow (incomplete dominant), al other genes is polygenes - small genes with a minimum of inheritance in general, but togheter they work they way to a better color. But they are NOT true genetic heretible genes as recessive or dominant genes are.
StinaUIUC
New member
There are also some jungle/stripe lines that are believed to be recessive. Ray Hine's hypos and giants may or may not be incomplete/co-dominance...I don't know enough about them... With traits like that though I don't know how you would tell the difference between co- or incomplete dominance...
groovygeckos
GroovyGeckos.com
only time will tell w/ giants and super hypo
ive been talking to many people on these , i am hearing results that point to incomplete dominance (3 phenotypes) ! and there is ALOT of talk/belief that patterns (stripe,reverse-stripe,jungle,zig-zag,etc. ) are polygenic ! my efforts here hopefully will give some more insight to all of this (now only if i can get s-s-s-ssuper s-s-s-ssnow lol ) !
ive been talking to many people on these , i am hearing results that point to incomplete dominance (3 phenotypes) ! and there is ALOT of talk/belief that patterns (stripe,reverse-stripe,jungle,zig-zag,etc. ) are polygenic ! my efforts here hopefully will give some more insight to all of this (now only if i can get s-s-s-ssuper s-s-s-ssnow lol ) !
StinaUIUC
New member
I am very aware that most of the patterns are polygenic...however there are some high end breeders (and not tremper...because we all know he knows nothing about genetics...) that claim their stripe/jungle lines are recessive.
groovygeckos
GroovyGeckos.com
i know
but really i think all of the genetic jungles, stripes, etc. come from the same lines or are related , only cropped up elsewhere ,as ron was the first person that found those genes ...
but really i think all of the genetic jungles, stripes, etc. come from the same lines or are related , only cropped up elsewhere ,as ron was the first person that found those genes ...
diablohogs
Hogaphile
Madde,
i dont understand how you are so sure its not a codom trait vs. a incomplete dominance trait.
please define both terms so we can all understand and then compare them in respect to the Super Snow morph.
what proof do you have that it is NOT codominant and is IN FACT incomplete dominance?
science can only be disproven... never proven and i dont see where you disprove that it is co-dominant.
you seem to only prove that its possibly incomplete dominance and then you continue to say how they are similiar and no one knows anything about genetics except you.
so than teach us.
i dont understand how you are so sure its not a codom trait vs. a incomplete dominance trait.
please define both terms so we can all understand and then compare them in respect to the Super Snow morph.
what proof do you have that it is NOT codominant and is IN FACT incomplete dominance?
science can only be disproven... never proven and i dont see where you disprove that it is co-dominant.
you seem to only prove that its possibly incomplete dominance and then you continue to say how they are similiar and no one knows anything about genetics except you.
so than teach us.
The genetic gist to codominance is pretty much the same as incomplete dominance. A hybrid organism shows a third phenotype --- not the usual "dominant" one & not the "recessive" one ... but a third, different phenotype.
With incomplete dominance we get a blending of the dominant & recessive traits so that the third phenotype is something in the middle (red x white = pink). Just like the faint yellow heterozygot supersnow.
So the proof to me, when I have read all the talking about the supersnows, is this.
Mating super ot super gives all super. Mating super to wild gives all faint yellow het. super snow
In COdominance, the "recessive" & "dominant" traits appear together in the phenotype of hybrid organisms. Like this:
We'll use "F" for the flower color allele.
FR = allele for red flowers
FW = allele for white flowers
red x white -------> red & white spotted flowers
FRFR x FWFW ----> 100% FRFW
A very very very very very common phenotype used in questions about codominance is roan fur in cattle. Cattle can be red (RR = all red hairs), white (WW = all white hairs), or roan (RW = red & white hairs together). A good example of codominance
But, this is proof to me, maybe not to all. And I'm sorry if I can't explaine it all, becouse I am not so very good in english (I'm from Sweden).
An I did not say that I was the only one knowing about genetics, I have been breeding small rodents for shows for 20 years and have always been using genetics in my breedingprojects, but I know that a lot of breeder don't know anything about genetics, but it is fun to talk to one when you meet him. In geckos there is nothing in genetics so we have to work on that!
With incomplete dominance we get a blending of the dominant & recessive traits so that the third phenotype is something in the middle (red x white = pink). Just like the faint yellow heterozygot supersnow.
So the proof to me, when I have read all the talking about the supersnows, is this.
Mating super ot super gives all super. Mating super to wild gives all faint yellow het. super snow
In COdominance, the "recessive" & "dominant" traits appear together in the phenotype of hybrid organisms. Like this:
We'll use "F" for the flower color allele.
FR = allele for red flowers
FW = allele for white flowers
red x white -------> red & white spotted flowers
FRFR x FWFW ----> 100% FRFW
A very very very very very common phenotype used in questions about codominance is roan fur in cattle. Cattle can be red (RR = all red hairs), white (WW = all white hairs), or roan (RW = red & white hairs together). A good example of codominance
But, this is proof to me, maybe not to all. And I'm sorry if I can't explaine it all, becouse I am not so very good in english (I'm from Sweden).
An I did not say that I was the only one knowing about genetics, I have been breeding small rodents for shows for 20 years and have always been using genetics in my breedingprojects, but I know that a lot of breeder don't know anything about genetics, but it is fun to talk to one when you meet him. In geckos there is nothing in genetics so we have to work on that!
StinaUIUC
New member
Wow Chad...why are you jumping down Madde's throat??...and also why not mine?...since I agreed with her... Why are you asking her to give definitions?...didn't I? I don't remember her ever saying anything about her being the only one who knows about genetics...but there are a lot of people out there breeding who don't know anything about genetics, and so its good for them to learn about the correct terms. Anyway...just wondering what that post is about...sounds like you have a personal vendetta...