dragonflyreptiles
New member
What supplements do you use for your chams and how often?
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Supplements?
- Thread starter dragonflyreptiles
- Start date
JERM
Member
Suppliments...
It all depends on which chameleon that I am feeding on how often. I like to alternate between a couple of different types. One that I have had good results from is sticky tongue farms.
It all depends on which chameleon that I am feeding on how often. I like to alternate between a couple of different types. One that I have had good results from is sticky tongue farms.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
I like the Mineral From sticky tounges too!
I try to rotate inthe winter with the Indoor, Reptivite and herptivite. Then in summer whenthey get natural sun I use the Outdoor and rotate it with herptivite.
I try to rotate inthe winter with the Indoor, Reptivite and herptivite. Then in summer whenthey get natural sun I use the Outdoor and rotate it with herptivite.
Chameleon Company
New member
I saw someone in another thread here talk about supplementing vitamins daily. Once a week for vitamins, and twice a week for calcium, is pretty tried-and-true. More than twice a week for vitamins is risking more problems than it solves.
dragonflyreptiles
New member
Jim, I think that would only count if you are 100% certain that the owner has properly raised and fed their feeder insects. If they are buying a few dozen a week and dumping them in the cage, supplements are a must.
I have also noticed that most of the supplements dusted onto feeder insects are knocked off of the insect very quickly so if the food item is not eaten instantly after dusting, there is not much of the supplement there to eat.
I have also noticed that most of the supplements dusted onto feeder insects are knocked off of the insect very quickly so if the food item is not eaten instantly after dusting, there is not much of the supplement there to eat.
Chameleon Company
New member
OK, and if you are not "100% certain" about the history of the insects before you got them (and no one recommends dumping them in the cages), then what would count? What is the supplementation regimen?
dragonflyreptiles
New member
I would as I do, gutload them on proper gutload for at least 24 hours, them dust them with a supplement, I use different supplements on rotating days.
Day 1: Mineral O or I (depends on time of year)
Day 2: Vionate
Day 3: Herptivite
Day 4: Off
And it rotates from there
Im more concrened about Gutload since most dusted supplemts are wiped off by the insect very quickly!
Day 1: Mineral O or I (depends on time of year)
Day 2: Vionate
Day 3: Herptivite
Day 4: Off
And it rotates from there
Im more concrened about Gutload since most dusted supplemts are wiped off by the insect very quickly!
dragonflyreptiles
New member
And no, I do not follow your advise of once every 10 days of liquid vitamins.
Chameleon Company
New member
What?
Wendy, in this thread, I said this about powdered supplementation:
You replied with this, and I confess to not being to sure what you referred to:
So, when asked to offer an alternative, you replied:
The regimen you describe (Vionate is a vitamin and mineral supplement not specific to reptiles) is heavy on vitamins and minerals. You are right that much can be lost in dusting, but I recommended a tested and often recommended regimen. You qualified that mine would "only count" under certain circumstances. I am not saying that yours "doesn't count", and welcome all to share their supplementation ideas (I thought you asked), but could you show the basis for why a commonly recommended, accepted, and proven schedule "doesn't count"?
No mention of liquid vitamins her until you said this:
I think that I recommended a specific liquid vitamin to you 2-3 years ago. It was field tested by myself and Dr. Ivan Alfonso, who wrote extensively for the Chameleon Information Network, and who also has years of experience breeding chameleons (see my website, medical page). Our joint test over about an 18 month period showed it to be the most effective vitamin, liquid or otherwise, we ever used. Unfortunately, the product is not commercially available at this time, as people think liquid is too messy. I am not sure why you interjected that line here, as I am not trying to recommend something that cannot be had, and had not raised it. What's up? Tell me what I missed?
Wendy, in this thread, I said this about powdered supplementation:
You replied with this, and I confess to not being to sure what you referred to:
So, when asked to offer an alternative, you replied:
The regimen you describe (Vionate is a vitamin and mineral supplement not specific to reptiles) is heavy on vitamins and minerals. You are right that much can be lost in dusting, but I recommended a tested and often recommended regimen. You qualified that mine would "only count" under certain circumstances. I am not saying that yours "doesn't count", and welcome all to share their supplementation ideas (I thought you asked), but could you show the basis for why a commonly recommended, accepted, and proven schedule "doesn't count"?
No mention of liquid vitamins her until you said this:
.
I think that I recommended a specific liquid vitamin to you 2-3 years ago. It was field tested by myself and Dr. Ivan Alfonso, who wrote extensively for the Chameleon Information Network, and who also has years of experience breeding chameleons (see my website, medical page). Our joint test over about an 18 month period showed it to be the most effective vitamin, liquid or otherwise, we ever used. Unfortunately, the product is not commercially available at this time, as people think liquid is too messy. I am not sure why you interjected that line here, as I am not trying to recommend something that cannot be had, and had not raised it. What's up? Tell me what I missed?
dragonflyreptiles
New member
What I meant was that I don't thinking dusting once a week for vitamins and twice a week with calcium is good advise unless it is 100% certain that the insect itself is properly gutloaded.
As you said in antoher post here, sometimes ther replies are much broader so that it answers not just the question but goes deeper just in case a newbie was to see it.
I would not want people to think they can go to the local petco and buy a dozen crickets, never feed them and only use a supplement from time to time and have a living reptile for very long.
The liquid vitamin, yes is was a thing you told me privately (I never did use it but a few times) but I am surprised you have not suggested its use here to all of the cham owers, you only mention your use and frequency of dusting supplements.
As you said in antoher post here, sometimes ther replies are much broader so that it answers not just the question but goes deeper just in case a newbie was to see it.
I would not want people to think they can go to the local petco and buy a dozen crickets, never feed them and only use a supplement from time to time and have a living reptile for very long.
The liquid vitamin, yes is was a thing you told me privately (I never did use it but a few times) but I am surprised you have not suggested its use here to all of the cham owers, you only mention your use and frequency of dusting supplements.
Chameleon Company
New member
Wendy,
Both supplements and nutrition are vital, as we all know. But they are also usually handled as two distinct vectors. We do have a discussion going on about gut-load in the fruit-fly thread, where I pointed out a simple tried-and-true gutload that does address the nutritional needs of the juvenile chameleon, and you shot it down based on what I feel is quite a stretch from one article written by another entity who did not draw your conclusions in the article. He wisely cautioned certain things. To date, no one has yet posted a staple gutload other than the effort I made.
You asked about supplements in the very first post:
I gave a simple and broadly accepted regimen to follow. And you shot it down based on what? Gutload? You didn't ask about gutload. You have a supplement regimen which you posted. You didn't post a gutload. You didn't qualify it as being one way with a "good" gutload, and one way if its another gutload. As I said, its because they are usually discussed independently, but no one has dismissed the importance of either.
I agree with you here:
But who suggested otherwise? As I said, and you asked, I gave a supplementation regimen. That regimen is independent of how well you gutload. It is not in lieu of a gutload. By all means stress the importance of gutload over and over .... I'm with you there. Broader replies are one thing. But to state that a supplementation regimen "only counts if the owner has properly .... fed their insects", what do you mean? Using that qualifier for a supplementation regimen to "count", could we not also say that it only counts if the owner also hydrates properly, maintains temperature ranges, and practices good husbandry? I do not recommend a different supplementation schedule if the owner chooses not to gutload, etc. As I said, both are necessary. I have written extensively of gutloads and supplements in my website, as have many others. All are welcome to visit there. I won't be posting about it.
Out of the blue you post this:
And "no" to what? Liquid vitamins were not yet mentioned in this thread.
In your next post, you say this:
Instead of saying "And no, I do not ..........", why didn't you instead just mention that we had spoken of liquid vitamins in the past, and what's my take now? As you see i my last post, I went ahead and covered that subject,
I also took some time with the "broader reply" so as to not leave folks hanging. Somehow or another, in these threads which you started Wendy, I have become a lightening rod for disagreement to my experiences, at times with no supporting reasons stated. I did not post here in order to debate you just for the sake of disagreement. I am going to go and do us both a favor, and unsubscribe from these threads just as soon as I post this, as I do not mean to detract from your intent. Outta here
Both supplements and nutrition are vital, as we all know. But they are also usually handled as two distinct vectors. We do have a discussion going on about gut-load in the fruit-fly thread, where I pointed out a simple tried-and-true gutload that does address the nutritional needs of the juvenile chameleon, and you shot it down based on what I feel is quite a stretch from one article written by another entity who did not draw your conclusions in the article. He wisely cautioned certain things. To date, no one has yet posted a staple gutload other than the effort I made.
You asked about supplements in the very first post:
I gave a simple and broadly accepted regimen to follow. And you shot it down based on what? Gutload? You didn't ask about gutload. You have a supplement regimen which you posted. You didn't post a gutload. You didn't qualify it as being one way with a "good" gutload, and one way if its another gutload. As I said, its because they are usually discussed independently, but no one has dismissed the importance of either.
I agree with you here:
But who suggested otherwise? As I said, and you asked, I gave a supplementation regimen. That regimen is independent of how well you gutload. It is not in lieu of a gutload. By all means stress the importance of gutload over and over .... I'm with you there. Broader replies are one thing. But to state that a supplementation regimen "only counts if the owner has properly .... fed their insects", what do you mean? Using that qualifier for a supplementation regimen to "count", could we not also say that it only counts if the owner also hydrates properly, maintains temperature ranges, and practices good husbandry? I do not recommend a different supplementation schedule if the owner chooses not to gutload, etc. As I said, both are necessary. I have written extensively of gutloads and supplements in my website, as have many others. All are welcome to visit there. I won't be posting about it.
Out of the blue you post this:
And "no" to what? Liquid vitamins were not yet mentioned in this thread.
In your next post, you say this:
Instead of saying "And no, I do not ..........", why didn't you instead just mention that we had spoken of liquid vitamins in the past, and what's my take now? As you see i my last post, I went ahead and covered that subject,
I also took some time with the "broader reply" so as to not leave folks hanging. Somehow or another, in these threads which you started Wendy, I have become a lightening rod for disagreement to my experiences, at times with no supporting reasons stated. I did not post here in order to debate you just for the sake of disagreement. I am going to go and do us both a favor, and unsubscribe from these threads just as soon as I post this, as I do not mean to detract from your intent. Outta here
dragonflyreptiles
New member
I am not trying to debate or disagree with you but ADD to the information posted.