Tampa Show

[bcherps]

Reply to Tampa Show

I have moved this posting from another section under advisement of the webslave. So if you read it under business, there is nothing new here.


I had a very bad experience at the Tampa Show. I had animals stolen, very weak sales, negative reactions to and from Mr. Cueto's staff.

I know that several other vendors had animals stolen also. I also felt that the vendor plushes like pipe/drape, free lunch, restriction of super wholesaler/price slasher was pushed much more heavily in the advertisements then was actually seen on the vendor level.

I also was promised an 8X8 booth, but since I was on the end my 8X8 space was the same 8X8 space as the first table in the row. Mr. Cueto's staff provided me with a free table to compensate. I was informed that I was given the space becuase of a cancellation not because I was sold a bum spot.

I emailed my issues to Mr. Cueto and received a very thourough response, however, most of it was personal attacks. Mr. Cueto basically said I was a liar, nieve, and a whiner.

I am sure that several vendors and spectators had a great show, but I will never vend or attend that show again.

I am not trying to disparage Mr. Cueto or sway anyone away from Mr. Cueto or his shows, this is simply my experience.

I am personally going to avoid his functions from now on.

Thank you to everyone that expressed concern at the show about my animals. I would like to extend the same apologies to anyone who was robbed themselves.


__________________
Ben Cole

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Ben,

I am sorry to hear you had animals stolen at the show. it is a terrible thing when it happens but that is not Tony's fault by any stretch of the imagination. Each Vendor is responsible for their own security at their own tables. I have had animals stolen at shows before and now use a screen to cover any deli containers or containers that are easily removed. My other cages have the doors toward the back and any door to the front is taped shut. I feel the attendance was down a little this show compared to last March and September and the customers were not buying higher dollar items but is was still a very good show. The low sales you had are not Tony's fault either, he has spent alot of money promoting the show but with he economy the way it is and the threat of the impending war people are not spending money like in months past. All a promoter can do it promote the show the best they can, make it look the best they can, get the best vendors they can and hope for the rest. If someone's sales are down there is nobody to blame except the public and or the vendor. By the Vendor I mean maybe the vendor did not have in stock what the customers wanted. The majority of my sales were all under $50. this should tell you something. the attendees were not spending the cash.
The tables on the end are a little awkward as they are normally sold to a person that gets the entire end cap. As far as the Drapes, and such behind the tables and the free lunch's it is a nice change compared to all the other promoters out there that ONLY care about the money. Tony invested a lot of money to make each and every table look better and more professional I think it does wonders to the show. It makes the entire show look cleaner and more professional. I am very happy that Tony purchased the drapes and such and to be honest Tony's shows are some of the best shows out there and by FAR the best shows in the state of Florida. I can understand someone not wanting to do a show again because they did not have great sales but I highly suggest trying again before you make up your final decision. Just tell Tony next time you don't want to be on the end cap. or right next to it and I am sure you will be happier with the table.

 

[bcherps]

reply to rk

I know it is not Mr. Cueto fault my animals were stolen. It is the fault of the people who took my animals. My animals were in sliding tray displays, and they were taken between 7:45 pm Friday and 7:45 am saturday, so the public was not involved. It was either another vendor or one of Mr. Cueto's staff.
I also know that sales are not Mr. Cueto's problems, however I was told in the marketing pitch that super wholesalers and super vendors were not allowed, however how do I sell a captive bred ball python I have sat on over the winter against an import for $10. How do I sell a captive bred green tree python for $175. These are just a few of the species I saw at well below standard wholesale. I know you cannot agree to set prices, however I was told I would not have to compete against these guys. It was one of the major factors it deciding to do this show. I am from an area of the country where tables are $50 not $140. I know several people did well at the show and probably loved it. However, I feel that for the price I paid I expected much more. I can also see having a bad show now and again. WHen I emailed my complaints to Mr. Cueto his reply was almost 100% personal attack, this is why I have decided to voice my opinion and my experiences.

As it is now I have told Mr. Cueto I never want to vend anything he promotes and he has informed me I am never allowed to vend at anything he promotes.

Maybe you are right and Mr. Cueto is the best promoter in all the land, but I have no desire to offer him my business anymore.
I wish everybody else who decides to do this show the best of luck. I know that my personal boycott of Mr. Cueto's shows will never cause a ripple in his world but it is the principle of it to me. I would rather drive 12 hours one way to Hamburg or fly to Maine and New Hampshire to participate in thier shows than to stay here and be trodden upon.

Ben Cole

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Do you have photo's of the stolen animals, or can you recall what they looked like clearly enough to give a description we can use to watch for these animals? Any distinguishing markings? Whomever took your animals may try to retail them, and a lot of us cruise the classifieds daily. (I do, I never miss a day looking at classifieds!)

Another note~ I've not been a vendor at a reptile show, but I have been a vendor at some Ren Faires. While we trusted our fellow vendors while we were present, we were unwilling to allow temptation to get the better of someone and cost us money. We brought sleeping bags and camped out under our tables. Should be easier at a reptile show, they are usually indoors. ~Ren Faires are almost always outside, and I usually worked the Anchorage, Alaska "Three Barons Faire" ~ I spent more than one night freezing and trying to huddle under a 4'X2' table as a rain shield!!

 

[The BoidSmith]

I tried to attach the pictures from the web in the original post but I couldn't. The link is http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=68365

Maybe someone knows how to do it.

If I understood Ben right although the two ball pythons are normal-looking they are heterozygous for a certain trait. That's what makes them valuable. In my opinion the individual who stole them probably wants to raise them for himself. Why will he go through the trouble of stealing two ball pythons that he will have to sell w/o papers as normals when normal-looking ball pythons were selling according to Ben for $10 a piece at the show?

Good luck Ben!

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Ben,

Again I am sorry that you had animals stolen specially during those hours. Personally I do not leave anything at my table that is exceptionally valuable no matter what show it is. I also stay at the show during the hours until the last minute to ensure I am one of the last to leave. It is a sad day that your animals were stolen. Also I did not see anyone selling Ball Pythons for $10ea specially since the wholesale price on them is higher than that, nor did I see c.b. baby Chondro selling for $175ea. I pretty much looked at everyone's tables and did not see anyone's prices that were way too low. I always go around and price check all weekend to make sure someone is not undercutting my prices by much. I am sorry that you feel you must leave his shows and I think it is a bad thing for someone to leave on a bad note like this but everyone must do what they feel is the best thing for themselves. I have known Tony for a while and would never think he would say do anything like a personal attack on another person. If you would like to forward the e-mails between you and he I would be glad to read them and see what transpired in the situation. Also there is a possibility that Tony might post on here as I know he reads the BOI.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

There are a few distungiushing marks, but I'm afraid your right, even if I saw those two ball pythons in an add I would have to have a picture of them on my desk top to make the identification. I will still try to keep an eye out. I check the Classifieds for balls everyday (But somehow I missed the "Have you seen me" in the classifieds so I guess I don't look as often as I thought).........I'll keep looking though.

Such a bummer. Sorry to hear about the loss.

 

[WebSlave]

I have to agree with Rob about Tony Cueto.

I have been doing Tony's shows for quite a while now and have never seen him get mouthy or have harsh words to anyone. He's probably one of the easiest to get along with people I have met. Both him and Alex do everything they can to make the shows work for the vendors and are always will to help and listen to suggestions. Not to say that Tony couldn't have lost his cool, but I would be real surprised to see it. And I would certainly wand to see both sides of the conversation.

I heard that Tom Marino has a bunch of animals ripped off at the show as well. And it was in the same timeframe. I suspect that security needs to be tightened up substantially when most of the vendors are out of the building.

Rich Z.

 

[bc_reptiles]

Ben:

I don't know how things are in FL, but here in TX we have some people who promote "captive bred only" shows.

Sure, there is a chance that someone will "sneak" in an import. It's really nice to be able to sell your animals for what they are worth. It's really hard to compete with imported and WC animals. I don't have anything against WC, I just choose not to attend and vend at show where they are being sold!

Just my thoughts,
Brian Miller
BC Reptiles

 

[turtle world]

I never posted on this board even I read it quite often.

I have to aggree with Rob, Tony and Rich.

I am very sorry to hear you got animals stolen, this
happend to me also sometime back at a other show,
so I chanced my display, after to doors are open to the venders
no promotor can have any security anymore, somebody
has to be on the table or all the animals have to be secured.

As of Tony being rude, he always was very nice to me and
he sounds like somebody who wants to accomedate everbody.
I would like to see the emails.

As of the show, I felt Saturday was a great day, many
people where buying and I think it was a very good show.

Tony trys his best to promote his shows and bring people in,
then it is your part how we display our animals and what
prices we take.

I also did not see super cheap prices, in all the years
I learned there are customers which buy WC cheaper
animals and other want CB and only look around for
quality CB animals for the best price, which is fine with me.


George Ullman

Turtle World

 

[bcherps]

reply to rk

Actually wholesale on balls is like $8 now and in another month it will be $5.50 each. Jobbers are selling them for $15-which is what most of the show was.

To sell my captive breds I would have to let them go for $15, so I shipped them to New Hampshire so I could get a reasonable amount.

the gtp comment was I had that I would have had to compete captives against wild caught sub adults which were at $175. I bought an "farmed" Aru green tree for my old roomate for $200 on Sunday.


To the other replies that are positive about the show: I am glad that a lot of you had a great show, I wish I was one of you.

Ben Cole

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Ben,

I don't know who is telling you that the current wholesale on BP's is $8 but it is not correct. Presently the wholesale prices are still around $17ea for babies. Below are the prices from a few of the larger wholesalers here in Florida price list. The lower priced babies have not started coming in yet. They will start next month but the prices will not hit the lowest point until mid may or so. I import them myself directly and presently am still paying $7 +/- before freight. Not that I am knocking you or saying anything bad about you, but you have to think of it this way. This is buisness. Tony can not make someone sell their animals at a higher price just because someone else wants to charge higher for their animal (even though they are worth more). Unfortunately in buisness (no matter what buisness) there is always going to be someone selling cheaper. It is something that if a person wants to stay in business has to deal with. Hell some of the animals I was selling were priced higher than most other dealers at the show and some of my animals were priced a pretty good chunk below but that does not make me a bad person or make Tony bad or did something wrong. If a customer wants an animal they will purchase the right animal even if someone else is selling the same animal for less money. Import animals will always be less expensive than c.b.b. animals. Even the ones that are captive produced overseas are still less than here in the US. It is obvious that you were not happy with the show results for yourself but you can not blame anyone else for your sales other than the customers. You have to remember customers that attend the shows are there to get animals at better than normal prices and most shows use to be close to wholesale to the public. You can definitely blame someone else for the theft of the snakes but I do not think it is Tony's cross to bear. If your not happy having to compete with the importers and wholesalers and jobbers than it might be best for you to only do the c.b. shows.


BIG BABY BALL PYTHONS 17.75 3/17.00 6/16.75 12/15.50 25/14.50
Ball Python Python reguis 18.00 16.00 15.00 14.00

 

[Hues1]

$8 now and in another month it will be $5.50 each. Jobbers are selling them for $15-which is what most of the show was.

I'd have to agree with Rob, BP's for $8.00 right now ??? tell me who and I'll buy all they have for $8.00 right now !

I'm getting them in for anywhere from $16.00-$22.00, and would be crazy to sell them for $15.00 retail.

In a couple of months, yes the prices will drop a little. And unless your buying them thousands at a time, you'll pay more then the $5.50 that you're stating in your post.

I would also like to say that your above post is a bit misleading to the general public, those pirces you're throwing out might not take into account the import fees, shipping fees, and permit fees which can amount to hundreds of dollars on top of what you'll pay for the animals.

If you were treated unfairly at the Tampa show, then I can see where you absolutely should voice your opinion and be distraught.

But if the only reason for this post is because you didnt make enough money at the show and you sold less animals than you anticipated, then just dont do that show again, take it as a learning experiece and move on.

 

[bcherps]

reply to rk

I have said in my last several posting that I am NOT blaming Mr. Cueto for weak sales. I also have said in previous postings I am not saying prices should be fixed.

What I AM trying to say is that when researching Mr. Cueto's show one of the things he stated as a sales pitch that attracted me was the fact he kept the larger wholesale warehouses out, to help the little guys and I still saw some of the industry giants there. This is the fact that upset me. If I had known that I was going to have to compete with this type of crowd I would have brought in all the import stuff. Without quarantine, acclimation, or feeding an animal I can sell anything as cheap as the next guy. However, I presumed because of the literature I received that this was a more proffessional show hench the name Tampa International Reptile Breeders Show.


I am not mad becuase I did lousy. One of my favorite shows I ever did was in Pittsburg. My friend called me from Maine said he was on his way to Pittsburg and asked if I wanted him to pick me up. So I had three hours notice-I was in Boston at the time. So I packed about 40 cornsnake baies, some tads, and about dozen books. We drove striaght through the night, did the show, made 62 dollars and drove straight through the night home to immediately go to work. That is one of the best trips I ever did. Did I make money?-hell no, I lost my shirt. Did I fun?-yes. Was I treated like a scumbag by that promoters staff?-NO


To the replies that people have never seen the prices I am talking about it is becuase I am not talking about 10 lots or 20 lots in which you and I buy. I am talking about the 1000 lots and 10,000 lots becuase that is the type of vendor I felt I was competing against.

Yes, I buy from Glades, Ben Siegel, Regal Reptile, and all the big guys becuase they do get in some animals that are unavaible any other way. Several of them have been awesome to me and I will continue to give them business. What I am saying is when it comes down to price slashing I cannot compete-especially if I bring captive bred that have routine fecal samples done, I have full panels done in my breeding colony once a year.

I am not saying the above listed businesss shouldn't sell, obviously they are making money or they would not have become some of the industry leaders. I am saying that I though these guys wouldn't be there, due to Mr. Cueto saying that he was keeping the superwholesalers out.

Ben Cole

 

[bcherps]

reply to rk about prices

Yes, you listed their advertised prices, and they have marked them up for thier profit. These are thier advertised prices to anyone. They paid less then what they are listing as selling at. So when it comes down to competing for a client they are going to go less, especially on the last day of a show. If you are an importer you should know what they are coming out of South America for and what they go for once April 15th hits.


I am going to produce about 50-70 balls this year. I keep all the parents on premesis and I have the eggshells to go with the babies if proof is wanted. I have had some of my b.p breeders for close to ten years. If you will pay more than $15 for a baby then please contact me. I let almost all of them go for that at daytona last year.

thanks
Ben Cole

 

[bcherps]

reply to hues1

check with the farmers in south america. Once april 15th comes and africa is shipping bulk, check with the harvesters thier, they should be about 3.00 to 4.00 with about a dollar port tarriff fee.

Ben Cole

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Ben,

First Ball Pythons and Chondros do not come out of South America at all. The Balls come from west Africa and the Chondros come from Indonesia.
As far as the prices I know exactly what the importers are paying and that is irrelevant to your dilemma. The "big" guys as you say If I remember correctly were all selling their Ball Pythons around $35ea. Ben Seigal, Xtreme, and most others. Yes there were a few that were selling fresh imports for about $20ea but the "GIANTS" as you call them, were not there selling at below wholesale to anyone. When you first posted it you implied that they were selling them for $10ea

I also know that sales are not Mr. Cueto's problems, however I was told in the marketing pitch that super wholesalers and super vendors were not allowed, however how do I sell a captive bred ball python I have sat on over the winter against an import for $10.

and this is just not the fact. And then you go on to say that wholesale is $8ea presently on Ball Pythons. This again is not true. I say this again, it is a sad thing that you had animals stolen but the show was not as cut throat as you are trying to make it out to be.
As far as prices come mid April The prices will depend on how many Balls are purchased. The average will be about $5ea in 5000+ lots ordered and that is before freight. The charge as you put it

they should be about 3.00 to 4.00 with about a dollar port tarriff fee.

is not a standard. Freight depends on the carrier and which country it is originating from. Most time Freight will range between $1-$2 per animal on heavy orders like Ball Pythons. I am not trying to argue with you by any means but you are trying to cast a light on the Tampa show that is not valid.
If you want to state you had animals stolen and the sales were not what you had hoped for and were unhappy then so be it there is nothing wrong with that. But when you try and make your situation look worse than it is by saying others were selling Ball Pythons for that much below wholesale is just plain ridiculous.

 

[bcherps]

reply to rk

Yes they are farming ball and chondros in south america, some of them are coming out of the same facilities they farm the boas. Yes i know where the animals originally come from, but many are grown elsewhere becuase of restrictions.

Just as an example many australian snakes are being "farmed", but it isn't in australian becuase they cannot be brought out easily.

A second example Komodos are being bred in several facilities in Indo-but they only come from Komodo Island

Third example Uganda gives permits for black eagle exports but yet the bird is not found in Uganda it is only found in Tanzania.

There is also a boa farm in Canada now.

I have been in this business for 11 years, I have owned a retial store, managed two other stores, I have be purposefully breedign for the show circuit for 6 years. I have also obtained my Bachelor's degree working with animals. I am now working in the research field with animals. Animals are my life and I have done a lot of research and networking.

So please don't quick to think that all animals are only grown in the country they naturally exist in. However, the cheapest ones do come from countries of origin simply becuase they can farm them outside and do not have to provide artificial housing.

You mentioned earlier that you were an importer, if so please look around to other countries becuase you are missing some good animals, and cheaper frieght sometimes.

The port tariff charge I was talking about is not the shipping either. when a collector wants to ship something live out of the country they usually have a fee, per animal, or bushel if it is crops. This goes to pay the harbor expenses, the inspector, and a kickback to the committe that regulate wild animalsand flora in that country. This is the tarriff charge. When I shipped my white lipped python babies to England three years ago it was almost 500 bucks before it was all said and done, but that was for a one time ship. If I had gotten lisenced to ship regularly is was only going to be $4 per animal for me, on cities listed animals-but proven captive reproduced.


The $5 ball, yes they do occur just look at your people in miami come late april, june. Yes you do have to buy 5000 but that is exactly my arguement. It is easier for the big guys to by 5000 that it is for you or I, so we get stuck buying them at $7 to $10 in 200-300 lots-so we cannot compete when puch somes to shove.


I do agree this show was not nearly as cutthroat as we are discussing now, but the same rules applied there.


Ben Cole.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Ben,

I do import and I import from South America as well. If you think you have a farm in SA that is farming Ball Pythons and Chondros let me know. The only one there that I know of that is suppose to be doing so is a well known farm that is also known for sending sick animals to the US from their farm in El Salvador.
I very well know what the prices are on the Ball pythons are and not becuase of the "your people in Miami " because I import them myself. Everyone out there knows the prices on the Ball Pythons come full on baby season. The fact of this matter is you were trying to make it sound that because these "big guys" were selling their ball pythons at the Tampa show for $10ea and their Chondros for $175ea you were unable to make good sales. This is exactly untrue. I will say this again, there was NO BODY selling balls for $10ea at the show period. As I have said before in this thread It is sad and I am very sorry that your animals were taken from your table when you say they were taken but the show bears NO responsibility on the amount of your sales.

Also on your statement

but it isn't in australian becuase they cannot be brought out easily.

this is incorrect. They can not be brought out at all. There are no exports from Australia since 1974.

I do not wish to argue with you but wanted to be sure that everyone reading this knows the statements you implied were not valid regarding this show on the prices of the Animals. I wish you the best and hope by some chance you are able to recover your snakes and wish you well on your next show you choose to do.

And in case you wondered about my background, I have been in the Pet trade for over 20 years, have been studying Reptiles for right at 30 years, I have managed a number of stores, I also have had my own Retail location and now operate my breeding, import, wholesale (30%)/shows(15%)/ internet retail (55%) store full time since retiring from being an Mechanical Engineer last year. Animals are my life as well and I dedicate every day and night to them and my customers.

 

[bcherps]

reply to rk

the austrailia quote is about being hard to get out of is becuase there is still active smuggling. If I had said austrailia was completely closed I would have had someone else say well smuggles are still on the trade. How did all those little geckos, boyd's dragons, Rankin's dragons, and some of the australia venomous get out to the u.s. if australia has been closed since 1974 but these species were not re-discovered until the mid 80's?

I still say ball were ten and gtp's $175, becuase I bought them. I had three other dealers working my tables-one of them a friend of yours. Ask him.

A dealer took my first offer on a chondro for that. If you need verification of the price I can give you my customers name and number. He was their when I bought it for him.

Have you ever walked around the last half hour of show while people are loading vehicles with cash and trades?

I don't know what you saw, but it doesn't seem like you did much digging at the end of the show.

Ben Cole