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Terri Sommella Fire and Ice Dragons -- Nightmare

Jonathon and Daphne,

Take satisfaction on one thing you have accomplished, go to google.com and put in Terri Sommella, see what comes up first on the search engine..... above all her marketing business links :)

How many people do you think will EVER do business with her for marketing when they see and read what appears there first?? Believe me, smart people letting her handle or spending large sums of money on her expertise, are going to check that out and know they are the same person

I hope it was worth it to her
 
I just wanted to state something else that came up in a conversation with my friend Kim who purchased a "Snow" from Fire & Ice. We live not far from Littlestown (Hanover, PA), and when Kim wanted to pick up her Snow from Teri's facilities...She attempted to discourage her and wanted her to ship (we're like, 20 minutes away - it would have been stupid) because it would be "less stressful." Instead of allowing Kim to go the the facilities of Fire and Ice, she met her somewhere else in Littlestown instead. Red flag to me...but again, Kim is new to internet purchasing and knows nothing of the BOI. I think once spring hits I'm going to inquire on a large purchase from Fire & Ice and tell her I want to come and hand pick the specimens. I want to take a look at her facilities because I question her motives for not allowing Kim to pick her dragon up...
 
Actually, not letting people to your facilities is a pretty common occurance in the reptile world. I know a lot of top level breeders that won't allow people to pick up items, and if I was doing this out of my home I'd feel the same way.
 
That is true...but when you make excuses to not send photos of animals to choose from...How else is a buyer to know what is being purchased? I'll never again buy before seeing the animal. I made that mistake and learned from it with Sunshine Dragons. Watching Kim go through her problems with Emma has also shown that to me...
 
Ok my eyes are burning and I have a headache.. I am totally shocked that she has not replied to this thread. I thought that biz was one of the better dragon breeder out there. I was just checking out her ads on KS and was thinking of buying one from her.. but I dont think so.. Really sorry about your dragon..
-Matt Graybeal
 
I've let people come to my home to pick up their Leos but i talk to them first to try and get a feel for them. I think if I was single and living alone I wouldn't be doing that but I don't mind people seeing my set-up. If they can tolerate the Jack Russell grabbing their ankles, the cats jumping on their shoulders, and the Macaw scheeching at them, they are more then welcome.
However, in this day and age, I can understand why some people don't want others coming into their home and knowing exactly what level of breeding or high end morphs they may have.
But still, why can't she send her customers pictures of the Dragons? Digital Cams are not that expensive and are a must fo this business. You should see what you are buying before sending large sums of money.
I hope this all works out for the best for everyone involved!
 
I dont allow people to come into my home either. I have had local people wanting to buy snakes and wanted to come and pic them up here. I have alot of money in my collection and really dont want someone to know exatcly what is where... I provide pics on all of my ads, classifieds and on my site of every animal I have for sale and will take additional pics if requested to.. JUst bad business not to..
-Matt Graybeal
 
I have to agree with that one. Many Breeder that work out of their homes do not allow people to come to them, just look at the Tampa threads and you can see why so I understand it.

We do not have any of the very high end snakes, just lizard species, so I have invited people over to pick out theirs and we only breed what we know we can place in good homes, so there is never a large amount here. Plus we do placement for rehab bearded dragon, and the new owners do pick them up here after they have been screened. For those dragons especially, the new owner needs to see how they were set up and we want to be able to see the animals with their new owners and if they are comfortable. Some of those dragons have been through a lot and come back a long way, we need to know they are getting the best new home possible.

I think even with higher end animals, you could make arrangements to meet somewhere near a mutual location or around a reptile show, I am in Florida so there are always pleanty of those.

So, not wanting peolpe at her home I do not think is a poor reflection on her, but misrepresenting animals, yourself, what your breed, refusing to refund according to her own terms and most of all yelling at someone who is already stressed and worried about their babies is just horrible. As Jonathan and Daphne said in the start if this thread, a nightmare!

Again, we all need to remember why we got involved with these creatures to begin with, sadly all indicators I have seen and heard personally from Terri shows the love of the animal was never a factor in her becoming involved with them, money was and appears it still is.
 
To Lawndart

lawndart said:
Terri did not share any current pic's of this dragon. She stated that her camera was not working. I had not reason to doubt her.
Click to expand...
I just wanted to give you some inof on the leucistic line as opposed to the clear nailed snow line. Go to Kevun Dunnes site Dragons Den and see what he has to say about both lines as he was the originator of most of the snow and the leucistic lines in the US. A snow, clear nailed or not can appear tan and WILL darken as it is NOT a complete form of hypomelanism (this is my opinion gathered from my own research) It is however hypomelanistic to an extent. The leucistic line is a completely hypo animal that will have clear nails and is in Kevins own words... is "born white and stays white" it isn't really a leucistic but was imported as such but has been proven hypomelanistic. That dragon should not appear black at all stressed or not if it is a leucistic as it doesn't have the ability to blacken to the extent you seem to be experiencing due to melanophore disfunction. A clear nailed snow is at this point an inexpenxive dragon as opposed to the leucistic line due the fact it has been around alot longer. Hope this helps a little in determining that you have more than likely been burnt.

This is only my opinion gathered from what I have read in your posts.

Robert Wood
 
This thread is falling back so I will add my update with Terri from Fire and Ice.
I have gotten her to send me written agreement to extend their return guarantee for me. I have yet to ship the dragon back due to the weather we are having this week but my intention is to ship it next week. Terri has agreed to take her back and all I did was notify her I was not pleased with the way things were working out. I don’t know why Jonathan had so much difficulty with Terri. I have, however, always found that dealing in business; calm, cool and collective is the way to go. I’m not saying Jonathan or his partner were not cool headed in dealing with Terri I was not there but I have been cool and collective with her and she has responded favorably. It sucks that all of that happened and it sucks that the dragons have to be put in the middle of this. It will even suck more if she tries a pull a fast one on me. I promise that I will keep posting to this thread until I’m finished with this transaction with Terri. I feel that you all deserve to hear the end of this story as well. I have heard some choice words regarding Terri and her business practices both here and in the Herp community. I must tell you that my opinion lies in the way she deals with me. Selfish, maybe! Everyone who reads this thread will make their own decision.
 
In my opinion, the reason she is being civil with you is because of this thread. She had been busted and now must step up to the plate and be a responsible breeder and do the right thing..ie, take care of her customers, without yelling, threatning behavior..and pull the $$ off her eyeballs and see the big picture of what she is doing. Greed will get you nowhere, Terri..just bad press.
 
Jean,

I think you could have a point if Terri had responded to this thread. She has not made a public appearence here, however, and according to the reply others have received from her regarding this post she is not interested in even looking at the thread. I can't explain her actions. If she has been reading this I hope she does honor her policies ofr ma and everyone who chooses to do business with her.

I'm :bolt01:
 
Jean,
You sound pretty confident in that statement! What makes you so sure? Have you been talking with her? Do you have information you are not shaing with the rest of us? Are you HER?
 
Pleaseeeee, I would not want to be her right now..She is very aware of this thread, and like anyone, she wants to know what people are saying, I hope..She has an income dependant business to maintain. So, either directly or indirectly she is reading what is being said,i'm sure...If not, I hope people are telling her she is running her business right into the ground by her actions.I dealt with Terri last year,and got a funny feeling I was gonna get screwed and backed out..I can sent you those e-mail if you doubt me, Lawndart..
 
lawndart said:
Jean,
You sound pretty confident in that statement! What makes you so sure? Have you been talking with her? Do you have information you are not shaing with the rest of us? Are you HER?
Click to expand...

Since this thread began a number of people emailed Terri with the link to this thread, and got a response. So she's definitely aware of its existence, and I personally do believe that she's read the majority of it.

I also agree that she's most likely treating you so reasonably because this thread did a lot of harm to her reputation. Many people were convinced not to buy from her after reading this, and other breeders expressed disappointment and publicly stated that they would never do business with her from this point on.

A smart woman would take all this to heart and start treating customers correctly.
 
Just found this link!!

There are so many replies to this post, I can't even imagine going through them all. I myself have had bought a dragon from Terri back in Oct. 2004. A holdback/female, part of her citrus line.

I talked with Terri on several occasions prior to purchasing a dragon from her. She was very informative. I had researched beardies for approx. 3 months prior to buying one so, I knew what care is involved. She also would not send a pic of the dragon. She said she had to think about what dragon would be right for me, and took her several phone calls to make up her mind. MY FIRST MISTAKE!
With out a doubt her care sheet does state to start off at temps between 100-105.

Anyways, my story begins. After talking to Terri she ensured me we would be in close contact for the first 2 weeks after recieving my dragon. I paid the $450.00 plus shipping and recieved her in fair condition. She was extremely cold, but nice in color. I called Terri after recieving her, as per her request, and only got the answering machine. She never returned any of my phone calls, and havn't heard from her to date. It took her a couple of days to start eating. When I weighed her she was only 40 gms and 7 1/2 inches long (full length). When I looked at the info sheet she sent me, her hatch date was in July! So this dragon was already 3 months old, which was my SECOND MISTAKE. I should have known better.
I started having problems after the first week with her not eating right. She would eat good one day, but not the next. This continued for a couple of weeks, so I did take her to see the best certified exotic vet in my area, with a fresh fecal. Come to find out she had a high count of coccidia along with worms. The count was so high that the vet had no choice but to put her on Albon and another for the worms. So, to this date I have been on 14 hour days trying to cure her. Most of you no the deal with this, cleaning and disinfecting her tank 3x's a day, rinsing her every time she has a BM, supplimenting her with baby food and Pedia. We have tried every thing, from 10 gall tanks to plastic tanks, from bleaching to steaming and disinfecting with Nolvasan, keeping her in a quiet, stress free area, bleaching, rinsing and baking her smooth basking log. I am at a loss and have spent close to $1,000 tryng to save this dragon. I love her so much. She likes to snuggle up at night under my neck and go to sleep and when she hears my voice will immediately look my way, till I talk or sing to her. May be she does not like my voice. LOL. About a week ago, we took her off the Albon and I put her on Parazap, tea form, which she can not stand the taste of. I am not a believer in this product, so we will see. Her basking temps have always been at 103-110. Cool side at 80-85. I keep my house at 75 degrees at night. I use mercury vapor lamps. She has always been caged alone. I keep up on her suppliments of herptivite, Rep-cal with vit D, and Absolute Calcium. With constant supplimenting I have her at 13 1/2 inches and 127gms at 6 months. I thought about letting nature take it's course, but I don't have the heart to up and let her die. ANY ADVISE OUT THERE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

All in all I have to say, "never ever buy a $500 dragon with out seeing it in person and a vet check should be included with the guarantee". We all can sit here and blame Terri, but it was our own stupidity to have faith in any one who will not send you a pic or post there beardies pics on-line. To expect a top of the line dragon is just to much from some breeders. It's all about the money and is a very unloving person to send out a sick dragon. I'm sure there are some people that did get healthy dragons, and you should be very thankful you did.

Signed,

Down and out and looking for a magic cure or even a miracle would be nice.
 
4TheLuvOfBeardies said:
A holdback
Click to expand...
They all are sold as that

It's not unusual for young dragons do go through cycles of coccidia and pinworms, its how they build their immune system. They do increase with stress especially if they experience drastic changes. When that happens, they overwhelm the animals system. That is one thing that we as breeders can help avoid and where I think Terri falls down badly (if in fact she is the one raising these babies, I have my doubts there).

If Terri learns nothing else from this thread, I hope she learns that she needs to change the way she (or whoever) is raising these before shipping and to stop punishing the new owners and the babies for her lack of preparing them for those changes. Many times causing the babies their life and the owners heartbreak and more expenses.

There is a reason that some breeder run into few adjustment problems with their babies in new homes and some run into a lot of them.... its in how they are raised those first few months, the contact they have with humans and knowing that change is not something to fear which causes them to stress so badly.

You have to care about these, and let them know that humans are a source of good things, they need a lot of people contact and exposure to the type of setups they will be moving into when sold. I have raised many differenet species and never had another one that was like beardies in needing this... it is one of the things that is making them the most popular of the lizards species in the US now... they learn to enjoy and seek human contact.

When they have had little handling, and no viewing contact with humans, then move to a new home in an open enclouse with people who want contact with them, they are freaking out and go downhill... that is not the new owners fault! That starts a cycle that is hard to get over with them, once they are adjusted to the new home, they are ill with parasitic overload, which harms their immune system, then they need meds that also effect other things in them... it can become a nightmare cycle.

Maria
Parazap is not going to clear the coccidia if it is that bad, can you tell me what dosing the dragon is on and the treatment times? The most effective for bearded dragons is Klingenberg's method of 3 days on albon and then every other day for 2 weeks, along with the cleaning with nolvasan, hot water and acidolphiliz+ during treatment... with your dragon being on treatment prior, it is high resistant now, but it can be cleared.. it just is going to take time for the dragon to restore his immune system and gut fauna AND lots of hydration to avoid kidney damage.

Sadly for you and the dragon, Terri is big on marketing till the sale is completed and than seems to fall down with the follow through, besides not having her babies adjusted to change/people. If you want to email me, I will work with you to get this dragon back on the right tract and up to her full potential. It's not something you have done or did not do, its the baby was not prepared and we can help her with that even now.
 
CheriS said:
They all are sold as that

It's not unusual for young dragons do go through cycles of coccidia and pinworms, its how they build their immune system. They do increase with stress especially if they experience drastic changes. When that happens, they overwhelm the animals system. That is one thing that we as breeders can help avoid and where I think Terri falls down badly (if in fact she is the one raising these babies, I have my doubts there).

There is a reason that some breeder run into few adjustment problems with their babies in new homes and some run into a lot of them.... its in how they are raised those first few months, the contact they have with humans and knowing that change is not something to fear which causes them to stress so badly.

You have to care about these, and let them know that humans are a source of good things, they need a lot of people contact and exposure to the type of setups they will be moving into when sold. I have raised many differenet species and never had another one that was like beardies in needing this... it is one of the things that is making them the most popular of the lizards species in the US now... they learn to enjoy and seek human contact.

When they have had little handling, and no viewing contact with humans, then move to a new home in an open enclouse with people who want contact with them, they are freaking out and go downhill... that is not the new owners fault! That starts a cycle that is hard to get over with them, once they are adjusted to the new home, they are ill with parasitic overload, which harms their immune system, then they need meds that also effect other things in them... it can become a nightmare cycle.
Click to expand...

These statements have intrigued me. I think this is why my pair of dragons are so stressed. Could you suggest anything to aid in this???
 
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