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Terry Lilley - Tried selling me my own animal

Good News!! Happy People!!

Since Corey Sawyer and Evan Stahl seem to think they know who I am, even though I have never done business with them, I think it is time to look at some positive events that happened just this week and I would like these two well know professional herpetologist to list some of their positive events. I think it is a good idea to share good things right now, with all the negative news that is swamping the world. So here goes some good news!
This week I sold these reptiles to some very happy people! They were more than willing to let me use their names. They paid in full for these reptiles, I shipped them to them legally and they are now very happy with their new breeders!
1.1 Kimberly Rock Monitors to Jeff Goettig
1.2 Iran Desert Monitors to Kerry King
1.1 Kei Island Skinks (new subspecies) to John Ashley
.1 Albino boa to Steve Hodge
.1 Angolan Python to Ed Hackbarth
Also this week my Womas laid eggs for the sixth year in a row! Please see photos. I imported these snakes in 1988 and Paid $26,000 for the pair! They were only the second pair in the USA at the time. I also got eggs this week from my Australian Sand Gould Monitors, Kimberly Rock Monitors, Diamond Pythons and a few rare colubrids. This was a good week! Lots of photos!
The very best part of this week was the successes of my clients I have helped teach to breed their reptiles. The Moscow Zoo had their first CH Rhacodactylus trachyrhynchus produced this week from the adults I sold them several years ago! The Tokoyo Zoo hatched out their first Diamond Pythons I supplied them five years ago! This is great news!! Thats not all!! My TV show was shown again on the animal planet "The Remarkable Kingsnake". I filmed this show in 1982 with the National Geographic team and it was the first time that snake eggs were filmed hatching for the public to see. It was very exciting. I have some great photos of the event! One last great thing happened this week! I won my fourth case in Federal Court as a professional witness. I testified in Los Angels Federal Court to help a client of mine who imported some geckos without a 3177 document. USFWS wanted him to go to jail. Once I explained to the judge the intent behind the CITES Regulations and that my client was importing them for new bloodlines in his breeding project the charges were dropped! Power to captive breeders!!
This is somewhat of an average week that is why I cannot respond to this forum in a timely fassion! I would like MR. Stahl and Mr. Sawyer to tell us all the positive things they did this week! I am sure it will make my week look boring!
Sincerely,
Terry (still busy) Lilley
 

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That's really great!!!

But I have a question: how is the condescension going to help you at all? During any dispute, someone has to have the temerity to actually BACK down a bit - or nothing gets better.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but all this constant sniping back and forth is making me remember people's/business' names - and not for good reasons.

Actually, I'm pretty impressed by your experiences - but more than a little disenchanted by the condescension. I have no stake in this - just an observation from what I read from here and countless other BOI confrontations.

I hope you guys get everything straightened out. I've said my piece.

Sincerely,
 
Sent photos of two animals to be published in a scientific journal (more on this next year), sent 4 vipers to a university. Sold animals that accually belonged to me, around 250 aniamls this week. Had some good laughs, ate a steak. Laughed at someone again. Had a beer. Looked at my Ermia in a jar, laughed at someone. Sold more animals that accually belong to me. Looked at some rare animals, that accually belong to me. Put four blomhoffi in a deli cup. Didnt smuggle anything or violate the lacey act. Didnt rip anyone off. Made another steak, had another beer, laughed at someone. Recieved one thank you letter, and a a few thank you emails. Went to my lawyer's office, went to lunch with him, had steak again. Laughed at someone, with my lawyer.
Purcahsed a new heater. Laughed at someone.

I wont bother my customers about this garbage, all I posted were facts. I never made any false accusations, nor did I lie.

Terry I have never claimed to know who you are, I know your reputation. I also know what you emailed my partner, and emailed me. I have NO clue who you are, and there is a reason I have not done business with you (would you do business with someone if they were illegally using your pictures?).

Importing without a 3-177?? IS that called...smuggling? I dont support smuggling.
 
A Few Hits vs. How Many Misses?

Let's see if I've got this right. You went to court for someone who smuggled, that is the proper term for bringing something into a place where they are not allowed without proper documentation, and convinced the same court that since they were bringing in new bloodlines it was OK? What court was this? I'd like to see the transcripts for that one. By that logic anytime anyone wanted to "strengthen their bloodlines" it should be alright to bring in any animal necessary to do that reguradless of it's status. That's my read on this.

As far as your great week, well, it reminded me of when I took up archery. I shot thousands and thousands of arrows. Every once in a while I'd hit six or eight or even ten in a row in that little yellow circle. If it happeded to be a new target and you happened to not see all the other targets I had used that were shredded from my MANY misses, you could mistakenly think I was a pretty darn good shot. I think this analogy applies here. You can tell us about your bullseyes and those who haven't seen your misses might believe you are as good a shot as you tell them. The rest of us know better.

wes pollock
 
For those of you who may not be aware, Terry has been putting out a giant price list of incredibly rare and endangered animals for many years (the vast majority of it are animals that he does nt own and does not possess). It is funny he does not recognize my name since he sent me the list several times. Anyway, to go back to the "legal/illegal" statements he makes all the time, there are many many animals on his list that are endangered, protected, prohibited species and yet he still has prices next to their common and scientific names. On the last couple lists that I saw, some friends and I had a great laugh as Terry had available for sale on there some Fiji Isle Iguanas. I will explain.

If you are not aware, the Island of Fiji through extensive contracts and recognized international laws, reserves the ownership of every Fiji iguana that has ever left Fiji legally, (they have ever given to a zoo, anywhere in the world on loan as well as any offspring they should produce). This means very simply, EVERY Fiji Isle Iguana in the world, that was not illegally smuggled, can not ever be legally sold to anyone.

The United States government has also made this animal one of serious personal contention since they pursued Tom Crutchfield over this species. They will not ever let a Fiji Island Iguana be sold in the USA or by anyone in the USA for any purpose or in any way. Only zoo loans can be done, with the permission of the government of Fiji, only by AZA accredited members.

There is one person in the world who is breeding these lizards in Europe, whose animals were under the above mentioned arrangement, but he bought them black market from a country whose government was in chaos after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. So if he wanted to he could sell them in parts of Europe that do not choose to enforce these laws. Still, his animals can never legally come into the United States.

All this said, Terry puts on his list that he has these animals available and that he can legally sell them. That is just not possible. Sorry. Yet, Terry accusses me of trying to create a felony against him for insinutating that he would transport an indigo (I never even said Eastern, he did mind you) accross state lines, even though there are hundreds of legal permit holders for this snake in this country and permits are easy to LEGALLY acquire, and there are hundreds and hundreds of other legal owners all over this country that did not require permits as people breed them in many different states and they can be sold within the state they are produced in without any permit needed. This gives you an idea how absurd this man is. Evan Stahl
 
Evan not to but in, but I want to add somethign about the fiji's.

Tonga has a fiji population, considered feral by some, and some consider it a subpsecies now. By all means, it is a wild population, and Tonga has issued permits for them to be collected. Fiji iguanas are being bred in south africa, indonesia, brazil and anotehr country (forgot) with cites permits. How ever these animals can not be brought into the US, what so ever.
 
Thanks Corey, I did not know that. I did know that the USA government does not care and will not let them come in under any circumstances. Evan Stahl
 
Terry Lilley - this is a direct quote from your previous post:

"This week I sold these reptiles to some very happy people! They were more than willing to let me use their names. They paid in full for these reptiles, I shipped them to them legally and they are now very happy with their new breeders!...1.2 Iran Desert Monitors to Kerry King"

It is no big secret that Kerry King is a good friend of ours here at NERD. We called him yesterday in fact and asked if he had purchased desert monitors from you in the past month (much less in the past week). Kerry's direct response was (quote) "Yeah, he wishes!!!"

The truth of the matter is that aside from dogs, Kerry King is not keeping animals at this time since he has his career to focus on. But he was very amused to hear that you had sold him animals considering he neither ordered nor paid for them, nor had any contact with you whatsoever regarding monitors of any sort.

Just an interesting $.02 to throw in.

Kara Glasgow - NERD
 
"This week I sold these reptiles to some very happy people! They were more than willing to let me use their names. They paid in full for these reptiles, I shipped them to them legally and they are now very happy with their new breeders!........1.2 Iran Desert Monitors to Kerry King"
Click to expand...

It is no big secret that Kerry King is a good friend of ours here at NERD. We called him yesterday in fact and asked if he had purchased desert monitors from you in the past month (much less in the past week). Kerry's direct response was (quote) "Yeah, he wishes!!!"

The truth of the matter is that aside from dogs, Kerry King is not keeping animals at this time since he has his career to focus on. But he was very amused to hear that you had sold him animals considering he neither ordered nor paid for them, nor had any contact with you whatsoever regarding monitors of any sort.
"
Click to expand...

ummm help me out here.. what is the word I am looking for?
oh yeah
BUSTED !!!
 
BUSTED BIG TIME

I read your post Ritchie and the immeadiate word that came to mind was.......................... BUSTED!!!!

I guess this "latest" incident kind of sinks the ship. I've heard of people putting their foot in their mouth, but not their whole leg and everything else!
 
makes you go HMMMM

Well this really show more about Mr. Terry Lilly. This quote shows it all.
I testified in Los Angels Federal Court to help a client of mine who imported some geckos without a 3177 document. USFWS wanted him to go to jail. Once I explained to the judge the intent behind the CITES Regulations and that my client was importing them for new bloodlines in his breeding project the charges were dropped! Power to captive breeders!!
Click to expand...
ANY importation without a 3-177 is called ILLEGAL IMPORTATION & SMUGGLING If you support these kind of actions(you did by your own admissions) than you are definitely a BAD guy in my book.
Also regarding your other statement.
Also this week my Womas laid eggs for the sixth year in a row! Please see photos. I imported these snakes in 1988 and Paid $26,000 for the pair! They were only the second pair in the USA at the time.
Click to expand...
HMMM as far as I know and remember (which I could be wrong) there has been no importation from Australia since 1969. If I am remembering correctly on the year how were you able to import the Woma's?
 
1969

Rob 1969 IS CORRECT, anything reptile leaving the country from that point on is ILLEGAL and the only way it could leave would be by being SMUGGLED!

If these two woma's, as stated by Mr.Lilley, were imported in 1988 and from Australia then they should be seized by the proper authorities immeadiately. THEY WOULD BE 100% ILLEGAL.

Talk about shoot yourself in the foot!!

That being the case, one of the moderators might want to be notified of this and the proper agency notified from there.
 
You know, it's one thing to shoot yourself int he foot. It's quite another to pull the trigger, knowing that your foot is lodged in your mouth at the time!!!

Mr. Lilley, could you please explain the apparent inconsistencies here? Where did those Womas originate?
 
1974 ACT

"All lizards, snakes and turtles are protected under the National Parks and Wildlife Act, 1974 and it is against the law to take them from the wild."

It's not 1969, it's 1974.............either way it doesn't matter!

If these womas were imported from Australia in 1988.... Then that makes them 100% illegal.
 
Some one from either The Ca. Dept. of FIsh and Game or the Federal Dept. of Fish and Wildlife( I hope I have the names right, don't deal with these guys myself) must read this site, or if somehow they don't , one of us that does must know an officer in one of these departments. How about some feedback from an official source on the exploits of this lilley character.

Upon further ponderance of him, I seem to remember hearing, long ago, that he was a snitch. That may account for why he tried to sell me Australian animals that he said had come diretly from Australia in 1988. For some reason that $26,000.00 price tag seems familiar but, I think that is what he wanted to sell them to me for and I don't think they were womas. I'm not sure but, I think he offered me Blackheads. Either way it wasn't leagal.

wes pollock
 
Wow...talk about a different approach.
To each is own I guess.
I thought I have seen it all.
But thanks to this thread.....NOW I have seen it all.

Show the world how great you are by posting how you smuggled animals....how you protect smugglers...and how you lie about your customers and what you have pretended to sell them.

I truly have never seen that approach before.
 
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