the AMAZING (so called) 16X het

[Monte]

This in my opinion is a low blow Monte..

Speaking of low blows . . .

Like I said earlier - sorry - it was more harsh than I intended. But i do think that lots of leo people have a major jealousy problem when it comes to RT. How come I can understand what he is saying?

Anyway - it's all good. I like all you guys - although i still think Gregg uses way too many ellipsis.

BTW Gregg, if you would actually pick up an english text, you would know that you are NOT using ellipsis correctly. It might be good if you wouldn't use things unless you really know how to use them.

Sound familiar?

hehe . . .

Man - I'm STIRRING the pot today. It's all in good fun!!!

Signed,

The Hippie . . .

PS - for those of you who don't know, an ellipsis is "a handy device when you're quoting material and you want to omit some words. The ellipsis consists of three evenly spaced dots (periods) with spaces between the ellipsis and surrounding letters or other marks."

 

[Monte]

I really couldn't care if it was RT or Sheriff Abdul Rahim selling the animal.

What county is Abdul Sherrif at?

I thought it was spelled Sharif. Now I'm going to have to look it up.

LOL.

Oh, summer vacation is great. . . . I get too much time on my hands

 

[Gekkonida]

But i do think that lots of leo people have a major jealousy problem when it comes to RT.

Don't know and don't care. I can only speak for myself. Now if he makes a blue gecko yeah I will be a little jealous then.

How come I can understand what he is saying?

You obviously have the secret decoder ring!

it's all good. I like all you guys

Gosh darn it, we like you to Monte.

Man - I'm STIRRING the pot today. It's all in good fun!!!

Nothing wrong with stirring the pot! Just make sure to add the right amount of salt and pepper.

 

[nicolai]

heres a thought,

Instead of everyone arguing about semantics why don't we wait until he gets back and answers for himself, anything else is just conjecture and argumentative.
Besides if he comes on here and explains himself and proves hes right I think a few people arent going to look not so good and it could hurt thier own reputation in the long run.
I live by the saying " those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". and unless you can "PROVE" he is a liar or a con man it isn't worth putting your name on the line for a statement like that.

 

[Gregg M]

In all honesty Monte, I like you and you have some good info, but what the hell does the way I type have anything to do with the genetics we are talking about and RTs ethics???? I was also not the only one that found a huge fault in Genes post about how these so called multi het leos are made.....

Honestly, it is easy to see why this multi het is most likely not real and will most likely never produce a quarter of what it is claimed to be..... And you do not need a "BS" to see this.......

Its funny how some people will look past RTs incubation methods..... You know, the one that kills embryos in the middle of development and causes deformities so he can misreprsent the color of his animals, But when someone like Chad questions RTs ethics and his way of wording things to mislead a buyer, you jump all over him...... What would you say to Joe Shmo if he was knowingly killing leos in mid development???? Not to mention, (Monte) making comments on the way someone types..... That is just plain old CHILDISH and is not an indication of someones knowledge in bio or genetics..... Does it really matter how many periods or question marks I put after a sentence????????????? I think the info I offer is pretty sound and my comments are justified......

Monte, I am glad you can understand what Ron is saying..... Why dont you become his personal translator...... You can get closer to him than ever...... I just hope he never stops short...... LOL

I seriously doubt anyone here questioning RT is jealous of him.....

Monte, have a cup of java and relax......

 

[Gregg M]

Another note to the Hippie,
Just so you know, the pot shots I was taking at your post about me were all in fun even though it did not look that way...... I guess I was too busy adding periods to make note of it....LOL

I was dead serious about RTs ethics though......

 

[Gekkonida]

Besides if he comes on here and explains himself and proves hes right I think a few people arent going to look not so good and it could hurt thier own reputation in the long run.

I agree to some extend that flat out attacks on RT could leave a little egg on someones face, but what is wrong with talking about the animal? I don't think RT himself is needed to discuss the possibilities surrounding the genetics of the animal, although it sure would be helpful! I have tried to keep this focused on the genetics of the animal, but that isn't going to happen. This thread seems destined for bigger and better things so I gracefully take my exit stage left.

 

[Gregg M]

Besides if he comes on here and explains himself and proves hes right I think a few people arent going to look not so good and it could hurt thier own reputation in the long run.

Nicolai, how would this work exactly??? How can questioning this animal and the ethics of the one who produced this animal, hurt anyones rep???

The big point here is that there is no way to prove or disprove it on either side of the fence..... This is where the problem is...... You can not tell me for a second that Ron does not know this..... I choose to believe it is fake and I will never be suckered into buying an animal like that..... You would think that there would be some breeding records on his site to back the claim of a multi het for 16 traits.....

Like most of his claims, I call BS......

 

[Monte]

Another note to the Hippie,
Just so you know, the pot shots I was taking at your post about me were all in fun even though it did not look that way...... I guess I was too busy adding periods to make note of it....LOL

I was dead serious about RTs ethics though......

I know - it's all good. I loved it.

You are really wrong about ellipses though (Btw - that's the plural of Elipsis - remember that for Scrabble).

 

[diablohogs]

except for those who are looking for an excuse to tear him a new port hole.

why would i want to do that? you think i pointed out this animal because im jealous of ron tremper. please!

i have a problem with the claim that this animal could reproduce 16 different morphs when bred to an animal of its like. its not true.

i agree with fred. and it could have been anyone making such a ridiculous claim and i would have reacted the same.

i would prefer that EVERYONE in leopard geckos felt like they at least had to back up any claims with factual evidence.

the fact that that animal is priced at what some of you have said is a reasonable price is completely besides the point. if someone was selling a brand new car for 10000 and claiming it has power locks, power doors, cd player, airbags, ect... and you get it home its a base model with nice rims... is it really okay for the sales man to say... "well try finding another brand new car for 10000 the rims alone are worth 2 grand!"? but i guess were used to that with car dealers. maybe well have to get used to it with leopard gecko breeders too.

imagine the person who bought that animal thinking he could reproduce 16 MORPHS with it. just the BUZZ WORD "MORPHS" is enough to attract somone to that animal. AND SIXTEEN?! WOW!

who cares weather or not it is fairly priced. it was 500 dollars! think of what other animal that person could have bought. furthermore would that animal have sold if it wasnt a 16X het? how well is the high yellow jungle giant market doing anyway?

anyways why would a 100+ gram super giant be anything special? it IS a genetic morph right? A SINGLE LOCUS GENETIC MORPH? and doesnt he say all super giant males reach 100+ grams by 1 year of age?

you should be thanking me for bringing this to your attention. not treating me as if im some jealous person hellbent on tarnishing ron trempers name.

ive bought animals from ron tremper. 3 of them (about $1000 worth). i was also interested in the sulcatas he produced. why would i have any personal vendetta against him? i dont know him.

JUST REMEMBER... while i may breed geckos (on a MUCH smaller scale) i am still a customer and i am complaining as such. not as ron trempers peer or collegue but as a CUSTOMER.

i would suggest that you dont buy any morphs that arent proven out. some people out there want to call every little detail of thier animal a morph without any proof that it is a inheritable trait.

i bought 3 giants from him. all of which were purchased under the premise that they were carrying a recessive gene for GIANT (i was emailed months later explaining it was in fact a codominant trait, according to ron tremper).

one of which was sold to me as het for JUNGLE. het for what? jungle? since when is jungle a single locus trait??

so its not like i havnt been affected by ron trempers habit of calling anything he wants a morph.

my advice to everyone out there...if it seems too good to be true... it probably is.

 

[robin d.]

That last post sounds crabbier than I meant it to be.

I DO get tired of the constant picking at RT. Geez - get your own business - run it the way you want.

See, I'm starting to sound negative again.

I got to get back outside. It's only 70 in Minnesota for a couple hours a year . . .

that 666 is coming out man LOL

Speaking of low blows . . .

Like I said earlier - sorry - it was more harsh than I intended. But i do think that lots of leo people have a major jealousy problem when it comes to RT. How come I can understand what he is saying?

Anyway - it's all good. I like all you guys - although i still think Gregg uses way too many ellipsis.

BTW Gregg, if you would actually pick up an english text, you would know that you are NOT using ellipsis correctly. It might be good if you wouldn't use things unless you really know how to use them.

Sound familiar?

hehe . . .

Man - I'm STIRRING the pot today. It's all in good fun!!!

Signed,

The Hippie . . .

PS - for those of you who don't know, an ellipsis is "a handy device when you're quoting material and you want to omit some words. The ellipsis consists of three evenly spaced dots (periods) with spaces between the ellipsis and surrounding letters or other marks."

oohhhh thats even crabbier LOL monte ummm go lay in that hot 70 degree weather and try and get some sun while it's there, you grumpy hippie
=P

 

[Monte]

Robin - if I want any crap out of you - i'll squeeze your head. LOL.

I'm just feeling particularly saucy this day. It's actually warm and sunny out.

Tomorrow is supposed to rain again.

I need to order my fainting goats - my lawn is so stinking long.

Hey Chad - you you think I can get ahold any of those 16x het fainting goats?

 

[KelliH]

If you really want to start picking at words - then lets start off on all your webpages which say "We are not a big business - we are a small facililty so we can give them the very best care available." If I see that one more time I just might puke.

Whoa! Monte, I'm surprised at you! Would you prefer, "We are a big mega-breeder that will say or do anything for a sale, you know, whatever it takes to pay for the kids private school tuition and our annual 2 week vacation to a tropical island. And don't ask us how we care for our geckos, we are a big mega-breeder and do not have to answer to a lowly wanna be such as yourself. PS. Shop at PetSmart!"

Now... I will say this, you may or may not find it relevant. I used to have some geckos that were produced by David Nieves. He had been inbreeding his leos for 6-7 years by the time I worked with them. I would produce all kinds of leos from one male bred to 2-3 different females: jungles, stripes, tangs, pastels, high yellows. Several different morphs from one colony. So I believe that Tremper's male, bred to the right females (that also must come from Tremper) may throw several different pattern variations. But there is no way someone could take that male and breed it to their normal females, hold back babies, breed them back to dad and expect to produce 16 different traits. It does not work that way.

 

[robin d.]

Robin - if I want any crap out of you - i'll squeeze your head. LOL.

shoot monte if thats the case, no need for squeezing, all ya got to do is ask... geeeez

I'm just feeling particularly saucy this day. It's actually warm and sunny out.

Tomorrow is supposed to rain again.

I need to order my fainting goats - my lawn is so stinking long.

Hey Chad - you you think I can get ahold any of those 16x het fainting goats?

ummm 70 fegrees i think is too cool for fainnting goats

 

[Wilomn]

why would i want to do that? you think i pointed out this animal because im jealous of ron tremper. please!

i have a problem with the claim that this animal could reproduce 16 different morphs when bred to an animal of its like. its not true.

i agree with fred. and it could have been anyone making such a ridiculous claim and i would have reacted the same.

i would prefer that EVERYONE in leopard geckos felt like they at least had to back up any claims with factual evidence.

the fact that that animal is priced at what some of you have said is a reasonable price is completely besides the point. if someone was selling a brand new car for 10000 and claiming it has power locks, power doors, cd player, airbags, ect... and you get it home its a base model with nice rims... is it really okay for the sales man to say... "well try finding another brand new car for 10000 the rims alone are worth 2 grand!"? but i guess were used to that with car dealers. maybe well have to get used to it with leopard gecko breeders too.

imagine the person who bought that animal thinking he could reproduce 16 MORPHS with it. just the BUZZ WORD "MORPHS" is enough to attract somone to that animal. AND SIXTEEN?! WOW!

who cares weather or not it is fairly priced. it was 500 dollars! think of what other animal that person could have bought. furthermore would that animal have sold if it wasnt a 16X het? how well is the high yellow jungle giant market doing anyway?

anyways why would a 100+ gram super giant be anything special? it IS a genetic morph right? A SINGLE LOCUS GENETIC MORPH? and doesnt he say all super giant males reach 100+ grams by 1 year of age?

you should be thanking me for bringing this to your attention. not treating me as if im some jealous person hellbent on tarnishing ron trempers name.

ive bought animals from ron tremper. 3 of them (about $1000 worth). i was also interested in the sulcatas he produced. why would i have any personal vendetta against him? i dont know him.

JUST REMEMBER... while i may breed geckos (on a MUCH smaller scale) i am still a customer and i am complaining as such. not as ron trempers peer or collegue but as a CUSTOMER.

i would suggest that you dont buy any morphs that arent proven out. some people out there want to call every little detail of thier animal a morph without any proof that it is a inheritable trait.

i bought 3 giants from him. all of which were purchased under the premise that they were carrying a recessive gene for GIANT (i was emailed months later explaining it was in fact a codominant trait, according to ron tremper).

one of which was sold to me as het for JUNGLE. het for what? jungle? since when is jungle a single locus trait??

so its not like i havnt been affected by ron trempers habit of calling anything he wants a morph.

my advice to everyone out there...if it seems too good to be true... it probably is.

HEY Marcia, I think I found one of your "boys" here. Seems this one thinks HE is in charge of how people SHOULD do business. LOL

Best to keep in mind that while you ARE entitled to YOUR opinion, YOU do NOT have the right, obligation or POWER to make it anyone elses.

If you don't like what Ron, or anyone else does to market their animals, that's fine, speak up and say so. However, going all righteous about it and claiming that because YOU can't prove it and because YOU don't believe it, it MUST be a lie is just a tad far-fetched.

When YOU can prove he's a liar, THEN you will have EVERY right to do so. As of now, YOU don't and YOU shouldn't. You're beginning to take that downward spiral towards diaperland, the place where ALL crybabies wind up.

If you've got NO facts, as it seems you do not, either find some or lighten up.

I'm NOT defending Ron, he may or may not be correct in his claim; frankly I neither know nor care only because I don't work with leos to the extent that it impacts me directly. If he IS lying that is another matter entirely and one that I would care about. I find it hard to believe that he would lie about this.

Prove he's lying and I'm behind you 100%. Keep spewing without facts and my patience, which has worn thin already, will evaporate entirely.

Edit:

For some reason when I was replying previously I did not read the entire post. Don't know how I got sidetracked but I missed it.

In the interest of completion I will leave this here with this bit of explanation-
It would seem that Chad does have some facts to back up his feelings of non-honesty on Ron's part.

I don't have any facts to contribute, just a gut feeling. I don't think, or maybe I just don't want to think, that Ron is intentionally lying.

I would still like more facts, both from Chad and Ron.

Sorry Chad.

 

[Gregg M]

HEY Marcia, I think I found one of your "boys" here. Seems this one thinks HE is in charge of how people SHOULD do business. LOL

Wes, I dont think he is telling anyone how to do anything..... This is what happens when people misunderstand what someone is saying......

Chad simply stated his opinion and his opinion is justified...... RT does not have the cleanest rep and he has been know to not be sure of his own genetic mutations and to bend the truth a bit as well......

Plus the fact, there is a buisiness ethic in question here as well as the animal..... The way I see it, Chad can say what ever he wants without having to deal with people saying he is trying to be righteous..... Wouldnt you rather deal with someone who has great buisiness ethics ans who care more about the animal than they do money????

I respect you and your opinion Wes, but the quote above is not real funny and it has no substance to it......

 

[Wilomn]

The quote above was in reference to the party debacle that took place a few weeks ago and was intended with humor, hence the LOL.

I also missed part of Chad's post and have edited mine accordingly. Check it out.

 

[montezuma]

In all honesty Monte, I like you and you have some good info, but what the hell does the way I type have anything to do with the genetics we are talking about and RTs ethics???? I was also not the only one that found a huge fault in Genes post about how these so called multi het leos are made.....

BEEP BEEP BEEP... back the truck up there bud. Did I say "hets"? Nope.

 

[Monte]

BEEP BEEP BEEP... back the truck up there bud. Did I say "hets"? Nope.

Look out. Gene is backpedalling harder than a Defensive end working against Randy Moss.

LOL.

I hear ya, Gene - we can't let these punks push us around!!!

hehe

 

[diablohogs]

Prove he's lying and I'm behind you 100%. Keep spewing without facts and my patience, which has worn thin already, will evaporate entirely.

okay wes, you must have failed to read my posts earlier in this thread.

there are not 16 morphs in leopard geckos making it impossible to make a animal that "carries the genes for 16 different leopard gecko morphs". proven. you got my back yet wes? okay well how bout the fact that he'd have to cross a super giant jungle to a super giant jungle that also carried 14 other homozygous morphs between them to claim 100% that the offspring was in fact what he said it was.

I'm NOT defending Ron, he may or may not be correct in his claim; frankly I neither know nor care only because I don't work with leos to the extent that it impacts me directly.

interesting.