The Boi: An Inquiry With A Poll Good - Bad Or Indifferent?

[Glenn Bartley]

Lots of us come to faunaclassifieds.com and use many of the forums, but almost everyone probably visits the BOI now and then, some more than others. Some people read the threads, others read and post in the threads in which them have a fancy, others post only in threads in which they have had business dealings with the parties involved, others only register/post to defend themselves when they find they got a bad guy thread and so on.

I am curious, and have an inquiry: What do you think of the BOI? Has it been doing its job of rousting the bad guys in the herp business/hobby, and has it been giving credit where credit is due for the good guys?

While I think it is a great concept, I will probably start just reading it for a while, unless it is to leave good/bad feedback for someone I actually have dealt with, or unless the thread deals with me. I am going to lay off getting involved in threads about others with whom I have not had dealings. This is just a personal decision of mine brought on by little more than a random decision to chill for a while, and just watch for the most part.

I still think the BOI does a great job of getting down to the dirt on the less than honest people in the business/hobby, and I think it does a fair to good job of praising the good guys. Well that is my opinion, what is yours?

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Hope I made myself understood...

that everyone should be answering two questions in the above poll. One from among 2, 3 & 4 as a separate group. Then one from among 5, 6 & & likewise.

 

[Lucille]

Great poll, bad decision; I have gotten to where I really look forward to your posts, they are incisive and well thought out. Please reconsider.

 

[Kevin Kaley]

Glenn, being 1 of the more fluent and well mannered member's of Fauna, i wish you would stay as involved as you want to. Your writings are very well interpreted and have saved me from having to get involved and my wife always says i'm misunderstood. Plus, i never can figure out where to put coma's and periods.lol

 

[rujonesin]

Isn't that what it's all about?

While I think it is a great concept, I will probably start just reading it for a while, unless it is to leave good/bad feedback for someone I actually have dealt with, or unless the thread deals with me. I am going to lay off getting involved in threads about others with whom I have not had dealings. This is just a personal decision of mine brought on by little more than a random decision to chill for a while, and just watch for the most part.

Isn't that the purpose of this forum anyway? The biggest problem I have with this forum is the bickering that goes on inside a post that has nothing to do with the original post anyway. If everyone decided to do what you talk about in the above quote this would be a better forum to visit. I think it's retarded that individuals have to be given their own thread just so they can argue back and forth. I also think it's ignorant that a post like the recent Briarpatch Herps fiasco should have over 20 pages to it.

Mike

 

[Darin Chappell]

I think that the idea of having threads free from the garbage that so often gets thrown around is wonderful. However, if that were to ever be the reason for eliminating third person intrusion on a thread, I think we would lose something vital on the BOI.

By "third person intrusion," I mean postings from those who have not been involved in the deal in question, and perhaps never having dealt with either party. While some suggest that this type of posting is not valid, I say that it may be the most valid type of all, assuming it is well reasoned and thoughtfully put forward.

When you're involved in a bad deal, whose opinion do you want? For most, it's "Someone that thinks what you do!" However, for me, I'd like to see input from "disinterested third parties" who have expereince in herp related matters, know how a deal SHOULD be handled, yet have no ox to be gored in this particular fight. Those are friends of either side are important to hear, but have only a limited value, given their obvious connections, in my opinion.

I don't post on every thread on the BOI. I don't even read them all anymore. I try my best not to get into any spitting matches with anyone at all. However, if someone is being ripped off, I think it is needed for herpers to come to the defense of those being abused by a careless, ethicly challenged, or flat out crooked member of our little community.

For THAT, I believe the BOI still serves its purpose quite well. The rest of this is just like the moths attracted to your night time picnic light. Yeah, they're a pain, but it's not worth eating in the dark over!

 

[screamdreams]

I've been coming to fauna since the early days, and have always thought it makes for an excellent tool in the hobby. I've seen many good things happen solely because of the BOI's mere existence and always recommend it to people I may meet at various expos, etc.

As we've all witnessed, some threads do get out of control - I personally have had it up to here with a few nameless entities and have lowered myself to their standards on an occassion or two and have a few warning points because of it) but I think the Webslave as well as the moderators do a good job in nipping them in the bud as best as one should expect.

My feelings are simple - we are dealing with people, and people have proven for generation after generation that our ability to mix well leaves more to be desired. Here we are, all sharing the same passion, similar interests, some of us may have similiar goals (captive breedings of certain species) etc. but there is always a weakest link or bad apple. I think the majority of us here have good intentions, and make for good people - it's inevitable that most of us are human and can sometimes over react, have a bad day, mis-interpret, etc but usually can come together and work things out or at least apologize. Sadly a few just bash, but in my opinion - the majority of bashing that goes on here is 110% deserving on the "bashees" end. Some of these people get what they deserve. I forgive but I never forget - when a seller continues to do wrong, then in my opinion, they should have all of the things we see happening from time to time happen to them.

BASH the heck out of the bad guys. The real bad guys...
...not the guy/girl who delayed a shipment for one reason or another, missed a few emails, or honestly mis-sexed an animal. Get the guys who continue to get called out and keep doing the same things over & over, posting the same BS day after day. The BOI allows us as a community to have our very own "neighborhood crime watch" and can help deterent crime. So in short, we are not the judge and jury when it comes to these people, but we can throw some rocks at them on the way in to the hearing and no - I don't live in a glass house.

 

[KodiakWood]

BASH the heck out of the bad guys. The real bad guys...

I am one of many that are the silient ones .but have to agree that there are alot of ppl who go over board and get into peeing contests or type just like in life talk just to hear themselves talk and in my humble opinion and I think I speak for the silient ones if it wasn't for this place we would not find no justice and also its ppl like Glenn and Richie Luna and few others that make this place what it is ....Putting the bad guys out there for the world to see..And I thank you very much for the great job you's do

 

[Glenn Bartley]

I didn't mean the ridiculous bickering. If I feel like bickering ridiculously I will post in Hell or somewhere else (LOL). I meant I would refrain from posting in treads where I did not have a direct involvement with the person being inquired about. For example, I have often commented in threads in instances where a thread was simply interesting to me, and I felt I could contribute a relevant point. I did this even though I never had dealings with some or all of the parties involved, including whomever the thread was initially about. I always have figured that this being a forum, it is open for anyone to register and then join in a thread whether or not they have had business dealings with the party or parties in question. I feel that way since these are more or less public discussions. I also believe that outsider party (from those not directly involved in the deal nor even a friend of either party) comments are often some of the most sensible in the threads on the BOI.

The thing is that this sometimes really is a lot of stressful writing. Lately I see that this often is more of a pain in the butt than it is worth for me. For example I sat down to write a reply a couple of nights ago that took me over 1.5 hours to compose while my son was waiting for the computer. I was really into it, but all I was in essence doing was adding my opinion to a discussion and making my son wait. Well I was probably doing something else too, like pissing someone off because I was adding my opinion. I probably upset someone because I had an opinion of the slant that it had. Then again I probably made someone on the other side of the story happy. I really don't see anything wrong with any of that so long as I state my opinion or try to comment on facts and as long as I don't get too much into a peeing match, but I can tell you sometimes that is difficult. Sometimes I want to go right in a bash someone, although I truly try to refrain. I wish I could control my big mouth like that and stay calmer with less of a big mouth on the home-front. Maybe I should write to the wife and kids (LOL). I really would rather remain calm, and no I am not really the calm type, especially at home - so anything that cuts back on and strife inducers is a welcome change.

I just figure I'll give it a break for a while and will only likely enter threads on the BOI wherein I have done business with one or more of the parties before, or when I myself make an inquiry. This may still involve writings that are potentially stressful, but I think that will be less so because I have or had some direct involvement with the party (ies) in the thread. This is a break, not a life long signoff and is only a personal choice - this is not in anyway a suggestion for others to follow. This way my son will get to have lots more computer time and I supposedly just spent $2,000 on a new computer for him more than for me (yeah sure).

Thanks for the kind words, especially about the commas! Actually I am pretty sure I often get them in the wrong places but I put them where I want to stress a pause or a break and damn the rules - full commas ahead. I will still be posting on this and the other threads, but just more reserved here as I described. Gotta get that blood pressure down too.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[John Apple]

Just like any 'system' the BOI has its positive and negative points..but as with any WELL thought out 'system' the positive far out-weigh the negative.

 

[Lucille]

Well I am still disappointed but it is your choice, Glenn. I looked forward to seeing your posts.

And, if I may make a comment from an old grumpy herperette (me) in 20 years your son may not remember the newness of the computer; but, if you were to sit at the computer with him, and both of you look at the arguing that goes on here, and discuss with him the replies you have planned (and even ask his input) the lessons on managing human conflict would be a priceless gift for him.......

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Just like any 'system' the BOI has its positive and negative points..but as with any WELL thought out 'system' the positive far out-weigh the negative

That certainly seems to be reflected by the voting in the poll som far. Who could really have expected otherwise!

 

[Wraith]

The problem I have is not so much third party intrusions as it is with third party people who come into a thread simply to attack or harass another third party person - hijacking a thread for their own benefit or amusement. If their business or problems are with that person then they need to take it elsewhere rather than clutter up a thread when it is clear they have nothing to offer to those who are discussing things related to what the original poster stated.


Adrian

 

[Darin Chappell]

Well said, Adrian! With that I wholeheartedly agree ... 100%!

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Glenn

I cant argue with your choice to steer clear of third party posts, as everyone at times needs to look at what they "add" to the community. I had to do the same myself a while back, and the time away was helpfull.

However I think all the bickering aside, this place is THE TOOL in protecting ones self against theft in this business. I dont have time to track down every reference given by a seller, wish I did, but I dont. Also references only get you soo far. Ive met many people in this business who wear two faces. Doing GREAT BUSINESS with one group of people, while robbing and stealing from other groups. As such an open forum like this is the place I use to check people out.

Of course you get the good with the bad, the legit with the bs, but thats info you use to make a decision.

The BOI has saved me from dealing with people that I may have, and would have regreatted (sp?).

As for the drama, I treat in like a soap opera 99% of the time, I just change the channel. However I admit I look at "drama threads" whenever they involve someone I know, or know to stay clear of.

I hope you keep posting, as the more the better as far as Im concerned.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

 

[Cruciform]

I'm mainly a lurker, but I do like to jump in now and then to get clarification or point out inconsistencies in someone's posts.

While I respect the intent of the BOI, there are times when it seems to be little more than a pissing match between people who believe that repeating a statement in post after post gives that statement validity.

Over time it becomes apparent who those posters are, but it takes a heck of a lot of reading and patience to filter the wheat from the chaff.

I think that when posting of negative experiences, users should be required to provide at least a minimum amount of evidence, be it email correspondence, logs, screenshots, etc.

Hopefully this would decrease the amount of wild speculation made by third parties as to the "facts" of the issue, and threads like the "Gluhcheff" fiasco wouldn't reach hundreds of posts.

That being said, there's still a number of cool-headed even-keeled individuals posting, helping to ensure that the good guys are recognized, and the bad guys dealt with.

 

[raygat]

Grain of Salt

I think overall, this is a good service. It allows true problem people to be identified and to warn people new to the trade about, scams and "bad guys".
One thing readers have to keep in mind is to take everything you read here with a grain of salt.
Competitors can use it to defame others. People who don't understand the "ins and outs" can post a bad guy post that probably isn't deserved.

Before taking anyones WORD for anything I usually look at other posts they have made to gauge their general tone and experience in the business.

A great example of misleading posts was the recent "I didn't send my payment right away and they tried to sell the snake."

Someone new could read that post and pehaps get the wrong idea about the seller in that situation. Thankfully over time, people are allowed to defend themselves and straighten things out.

As another poster pointed out, the sniping that some topics bring out is a detraction to the service. Some of it is needed to prove a point I guess, but much of it is not.