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The Death Penalty
- Thread starter Lucille
- Start date
TooManyBurmese
Member
I am 100% for it. Almost half my paycheck goes to the government, and that includes housing people who rape, murder, and torture.
I love how Texas is trying to get the law passed for less jail time for death row prisoners that were convicted for henious crimes! You guys need to breed more of those law makers and spread them to the rest of the country!
I love how Texas is trying to get the law passed for less jail time for death row prisoners that were convicted for henious crimes! You guys need to breed more of those law makers and spread them to the rest of the country!
Well here in Alabama they will sentance you to death but it takes damn near 20 years before they throw the switch. Last one put down was damn near 70 years old and wasn't but in his late 40's when he went in if that tells you something. I say 2 appeals in 5 years and if you are still guilty set you ass in "Yellow Mama" as they call our electric chair.
Now in certain instances it is a tricky situation. About 2 years ago we fried this guy who had an iq of around 61. He was borderline retarded but they threw the switch on him anyway. I feel that people who have mental defects should be spared the death penalty as they most often can't even help in their own defence as they don't have a clue about court and what is happening to them. this guy knew what he did was wrong but the state failed to provide mental testing in the pre-trial phase to even see if he was competent to stand trial. So there should be exceptions to the general rule.
Now in certain instances it is a tricky situation. About 2 years ago we fried this guy who had an iq of around 61. He was borderline retarded but they threw the switch on him anyway. I feel that people who have mental defects should be spared the death penalty as they most often can't even help in their own defence as they don't have a clue about court and what is happening to them. this guy knew what he did was wrong but the state failed to provide mental testing in the pre-trial phase to even see if he was competent to stand trial. So there should be exceptions to the general rule.
TooManyBurmese
Member
I have to disagree. When you take someone else's life you KNOW what you are doing. I don't care if you are depressed, bipolar, or borderline retarded. When you take someone's life, you not only ended theirs, but destroyed the lives of countless others.
There are set guidelines for a reason. If IQ of 60 and below is retarded, then 61 is NOT. If we are going to make rules we have to stick with them, or what the hell is the point in even making a rule?
Who cares if he didn't understand court proceedings as well as a person with an IQ of, say 75? His lawyer's JOB is to not only defend him, but explain it all to him.
If we keep letting people "slide" make exceptions for ever little thing, people will be able to "get away with murder." There has to be a line, and people need to grow the balls to stick with the lines that are drawn.
There are set guidelines for a reason. If IQ of 60 and below is retarded, then 61 is NOT. If we are going to make rules we have to stick with them, or what the hell is the point in even making a rule?
Who cares if he didn't understand court proceedings as well as a person with an IQ of, say 75? His lawyer's JOB is to not only defend him, but explain it all to him.
If we keep letting people "slide" make exceptions for ever little thing, people will be able to "get away with murder." There has to be a line, and people need to grow the balls to stick with the lines that are drawn.
Ok Ok ok....
But I really hate to do this but I will. Do you think there has ever been one person put to death that was innocent? Look at the recent findings of people sentenced to prison who were in fact innocent after DNA evidence and testing methods caught up with their case. Eye witness testomony is the worst you can have. Any lawyer worth anything can make the witness second guess his or her testimony and raise a reasonable doubt in a jury. I am for it is the evidence presented is 100% and shows without a doubt the person on trial did in fact kill someone. But with so many variables to consider and the fact that someone can still be brought to trial and convected of something they did not do this is a very risky proposition. Plus recent numbers show that to house an inmate in Alabama it costs the state an average of 21k a year. A death penalty case costs an average of 60k to bring to trial and get a convection. So this isn't a cheap undertaking at all. Plus all it takes is one juror to keep the death penalty from being recomended. And in Alabama it is up to the judge to impose the sentance recomendation of the jury or impose his or her own, so even if the jury recomends the death penalty the judge can still under law sentence the person to anything the title allows which is life with parole or without.
But I really hate to do this but I will. Do you think there has ever been one person put to death that was innocent? Look at the recent findings of people sentenced to prison who were in fact innocent after DNA evidence and testing methods caught up with their case. Eye witness testomony is the worst you can have. Any lawyer worth anything can make the witness second guess his or her testimony and raise a reasonable doubt in a jury. I am for it is the evidence presented is 100% and shows without a doubt the person on trial did in fact kill someone. But with so many variables to consider and the fact that someone can still be brought to trial and convected of something they did not do this is a very risky proposition. Plus recent numbers show that to house an inmate in Alabama it costs the state an average of 21k a year. A death penalty case costs an average of 60k to bring to trial and get a convection. So this isn't a cheap undertaking at all. Plus all it takes is one juror to keep the death penalty from being recomended. And in Alabama it is up to the judge to impose the sentance recomendation of the jury or impose his or her own, so even if the jury recomends the death penalty the judge can still under law sentence the person to anything the title allows which is life with parole or without.
TooManyBurmese
Member
That's a great point, but I trust the laws that are made. Look at how much goes into making the darn things! 
I feel that "justice" will eventually be found. I trust that the lawyers and investigators on boths sides of the case will do their damndest for their side. If we can't put our faith in the laws and the judicial system, what hope is there?
I watch Forensic Files, FBI Files, The System, Dayle Hinman, and Henry Lee almost nonstop. That's all I watch. I see how much goes into everything, and I also see how mistakes ARE made, people in the judicial systems DON'T do their jobs, and innocent people are convicted. But in the hundreds of thousands of convictions a year, if only 1 or 2 of those are false, I think that's a great statistic. There are several organizations that look into appeals independently free of charge to convicted prisoners. If there is a loophole or a mistake, these people will find it.
On the other side, look how many go free...
I feel that "justice" will eventually be found. I trust that the lawyers and investigators on boths sides of the case will do their damndest for their side. If we can't put our faith in the laws and the judicial system, what hope is there? I watch Forensic Files, FBI Files, The System, Dayle Hinman, and Henry Lee almost nonstop. That's all I watch. I see how much goes into everything, and I also see how mistakes ARE made, people in the judicial systems DON'T do their jobs, and innocent people are convicted. But in the hundreds of thousands of convictions a year, if only 1 or 2 of those are false, I think that's a great statistic. There are several organizations that look into appeals independently free of charge to convicted prisoners. If there is a loophole or a mistake, these people will find it.
On the other side, look how many go free...
True but one or two a year is still one or two more than you should have. there is a case that comes to mind here in Alabama of a man who sat on death row for 14 years before the convection was overturned. He in fact did not kill the person who the state said he did and was infact innocent. That is 14 damn years he sat in in prison and death row at that. You can't just give those 14 years back no matter how much you try. Even worse he has the stigma of murderer attatched to his name even though he was innocent. Granted he is out of prison and still alive, but what kind of life is that? The write up I read about him stated he has to take medication for depression and has nightmares of prison pretty much every night. That isn't a good quality of life in my opinion. Plus who would hire someone who has a murder convection on their record?
I am a firm believer in innocent untill proven guilty. And with the forensic methods avaliable today there are ways to put the nail in the coffin and leave no doubt that if someone is guilty that they might be innocent. It is the older cases that worry me because these practices were not avaliable back then. But you all know no one sitting in prison is guilty. They were all if you listen to them say it framed. So this is a catch 22 do you believe them or not.
I am a firm believer in innocent untill proven guilty. And with the forensic methods avaliable today there are ways to put the nail in the coffin and leave no doubt that if someone is guilty that they might be innocent. It is the older cases that worry me because these practices were not avaliable back then. But you all know no one sitting in prison is guilty. They were all if you listen to them say it framed. So this is a catch 22 do you believe them or not.
TooManyBurmese
Member
Very true Brian. It is horrible when someone spends years of their life in prison for nothing. There was a man and woman on "Henry Lee" last week. They BOTH went to prison for killing their children and stayed in prison for 6 years. They were both proven with Forensics to be innocent. Sadly they divorced, leaving each other when they needed each other most, and neither attempted to regain custody of the living child. It tore them apart inside and out.
My brother is behind me reading this. He adds "If you don't want to get nailed for something you didn't do, stay the hell away from dead bodies!"
There is even a Bible passage about not appearing to do evil, as it's just as bad (our mother is a big Bible person)
I am going to shut up now. I like Brian, and really don't like even friendly debates
My brother is behind me reading this. He adds "If you don't want to get nailed for something you didn't do, stay the hell away from dead bodies!"
There is even a Bible passage about not appearing to do evil, as it's just as bad (our mother is a big Bible person)
I am going to shut up now. I like Brian, and really don't like even friendly debates
Well don't get me wrong I am a firm believer in "do the crime do the time" except our justice system has some big flaws in it which need to be fixed. Also the days of beating a confession out of a suspect are long gone. Half my family is in law enforcement as cops. state troopers, district attorneys, or judges. The other half is defence lawyers and criminal elements of our society. This makes for a very interesting family reunion. Say "Uncle Joe" had some problems with a RICO charge or something else with his continuing criminal enterprise. Well "Uncle Wayne" sees him at the reunion and is all about "Why the hell is he not in jail?". I see it from both sides every day with my family. One side locks up the other side all the time. It gets quite comical at times but you see the loopholes the criminals can use and you also see the problems with the justice system where an innocent person can be convicted of a crime they didn't do.
When I went to school I wanted to be the one to make a difference. I started out wanting to be a forensic pathologist, but after doing a semester in a very large coroners office outside of Atlanta I decided I could not take it. Dead bodies never bothered me, but seeing kids come in who were beaten to death, burned, dunked in boiling water untill they died was a bit much for me to take. The uncles and cousins I have who are cops I have asked many times how they can see such things and not just go and put a round or two in their parents head for doing that to a child. They say it isn't easy but you have to keep your cool and let justice work. People who do stuff like this to kids have a special place in hell I hope.
Say "Uncle Joe" had some problems with a RICO charge or something else with his continuing criminal enterprise. Well "Uncle Wayne" sees him at the reunion and is all about "Why the hell is he not in jail?". I see it from both sides every day with my family. One side locks up the other side all the time. It gets quite comical at times but you see the loopholes the criminals can use and you also see the problems with the justice system where an innocent person can be convicted of a crime they didn't do.When I went to school I wanted to be the one to make a difference. I started out wanting to be a forensic pathologist, but after doing a semester in a very large coroners office outside of Atlanta I decided I could not take it. Dead bodies never bothered me, but seeing kids come in who were beaten to death, burned, dunked in boiling water untill they died was a bit much for me to take. The uncles and cousins I have who are cops I have asked many times how they can see such things and not just go and put a round or two in their parents head for doing that to a child. They say it isn't easy but you have to keep your cool and let justice work. People who do stuff like this to kids have a special place in hell I hope.
Ken Harbart
New member
A few misguided folks say that the death penalty does not serve as a deterrent. I have to disagree.
Statistics show that the recidivism rate of executed convicts is currently hovering right around 0%.
Statistics show that the recidivism rate of executed convicts is currently hovering right around 0%.
Brownie55
New member
Oddly, the rate is exactly the same for both true criminals and those executed by because of lying cops, false witnesses and over-zealous DAs.
Execution is the only sentence you can't correct. Life without the possibility of parole is more civilized. And, for TooManyBurmese that gave us the Bible quote earlier, let me toss two back: "Thou shalt not kill," and "Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord."
The Lord can judge them, we will just arrange the meeting....
Seriously, we spend tens of thousands of dollars on each capital case before we fry them. They have free legal advice if they need it, and every opportunity. I will not will not will not espouse any theory that has murderers walking around while I have children out there.
Seriously, we spend tens of thousands of dollars on each capital case before we fry them. They have free legal advice if they need it, and every opportunity. I will not will not will not espouse any theory that has murderers walking around while I have children out there.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. --Ghandi
To kill someone for killing someone else only proves and teaches people who want to kill and everyone else that killing is an ACCEPTABLE punishment. We are only perpetuating the cycle of DEATH.
To kill someone for killing someone else only proves and teaches people who want to kill and everyone else that killing is an ACCEPTABLE punishment. We are only perpetuating the cycle of DEATH.
Killing is an acceptable punishment. Certain kinds of murderers go on to murder again and again. If you keep them imprisoned for life, they sometimes murder in prison. No way are they going to get as far as my family.
You are welcome to your principals about the death penalty; I myself want a life and want my children to live.
You are welcome to your principals about the death penalty; I myself want a life and want my children to live.
sirenofthestorm
ineffable
I was gonna keep my mouth shut on this thread, but I just can't resist any longer. You all say the lord can judge them, you just arrange the meeting.
Well what IF the person is innocent, who gets punished for his death? Everyone who took comfort in it? Just the executioner? The D.A., the governors during his sentence?
As a whole I don't agree with the death penalty, especially in older cases where there wasn't DNA evidence. And personally, I'd think it'd be more fitting for killers to have a life sentence without the possibility of parole, being someone's lackey in prison, because as far as I know that's a pretty freaking miserable existance. And even if there is irrefutable forensic evidence, we can never be 100% sure because we weren't there, and I'm uneasy with the idea that someone can be put to death based on eyewitness and circumstantial evidence alone.
And as for serial killers, keep them all together in some square state (kidding of course....), but keep them all together and let them pick each other off.
But this still doesn't even begin to address the base problems with the criminal justice system or the judicial system at all. Yes it could be worse, but it works off the backs of people, and everyone is failable.
Anyway, that's my opinion.
Whit
Well what IF the person is innocent, who gets punished for his death? Everyone who took comfort in it? Just the executioner? The D.A., the governors during his sentence?
As a whole I don't agree with the death penalty, especially in older cases where there wasn't DNA evidence. And personally, I'd think it'd be more fitting for killers to have a life sentence without the possibility of parole, being someone's lackey in prison, because as far as I know that's a pretty freaking miserable existance. And even if there is irrefutable forensic evidence, we can never be 100% sure because we weren't there, and I'm uneasy with the idea that someone can be put to death based on eyewitness and circumstantial evidence alone.
And as for serial killers, keep them all together in some square state (kidding of course....), but keep them all together and let them pick each other off.
But this still doesn't even begin to address the base problems with the criminal justice system or the judicial system at all. Yes it could be worse, but it works off the backs of people, and everyone is failable.
Anyway, that's my opinion.
Whit
Well, it is pretty common to criticize and not take a thoughtful look at the alternative. Don't get me wrong, you have a right to your feelings and have a right to criticize; but the fact is, that however imperfect our system of justice is, it is a helluva lot better than most of the world has.
Yes the criminal justice here has lots of imperfections and loopholes; but most of them are for the benefit of the accused, not the other way around.
Yes the criminal justice here has lots of imperfections and loopholes; but most of them are for the benefit of the accused, not the other way around.
I would have to agree with sirenofthestorm though. An acceptable alternative would be to give them life sentences with no parole. This way, to me, would be more punishable than death, and cheaper for the tax payers as well. I know the prisons are overrun as it is, but it costs tons of money to execute people and it would actually be cheaper to keep them alive. I don't believe in suffering, and yes, these people are bad and they have caused NUMEROUS amounts of suffering, but that doesn't give us the right to cause them suffering. Back to the whole eye for an eye thing. And yes, I want my family to be safe, but there are alternatives. You don't have to go around killing everyone to feel safe, it's barbaric.