The new Atlanta show schedule

[JMExotics]

Brett, you are way off man. The show failed miserably. It seems most venders sold well. That is because the base population followed these sites and found there way there. They came to buy and not to look. Let me ask you something, did you pay Tony a commission on what you sold? Neither did any other vendors. He makes his money solely on what you paid for the tables and what those people paid to get thru the door. He paid over $9k just to rent the room. Add on the other expenses. Are you under the impression that he made money? No brother, that show was a bomb, and it was his third bomb in a row. He lost big in Greenville and Atlanta. Columbus has always been my favorite show, and I hope it continues to be next month, but if this one is another financial bomb for the promoter, I think he will be forced out of this business. I do not know the man’s financial position, but since he lost 2 Atlanta venues for non-payment, and only made payment to Greenville at the last minute, it seems he is having problems. He can not continue to operate in the red. I defended the man early on during the Atlanta fiasco; I thought he was a good man, stuck in a bad situation. But now I think he is a dishonest man, whose arrogance has finally caught up with him. Did he put up big numbers with his early shows? Well, yes…you can not deny that. But the only thing he did right was be on the edge. He was the only market. His numbers were not big because he was a great promoter, they were big cause he had the only show. He is under the incorrect impression that he is a promoting genius. Letting Roark go was a foolish move. Absolutely stupid! Refusing Cathy’s offer to end this bickering and sending her a profanity laden email was idiotic. After the GA Herp Society bailed on him, I offered to do a set up for him. He brushed me off like I was a grammar school kid with a garter snake. His arrogance offended me, and would never again offer to do anything to help the man. And the people I afore mentioned probably feel the same way. It actually bothers me that I have to pay to get in the door of his show, cause I feel like that supports someone I do not care for. But to see my friends, it is a necessary evil. For his Columbia show last year, I rented a van and took members from my herp society to the show, I think I brought 9 total, but I can assure you I will not do that this year, or for any other show I know he is promoting. And I sick of everyone saying, oh I wish him well, he treated me and others like we are beneath him, and I wish him nothing but the worst. I hope he continues to lose money and drops out of show promotion all together, so someone else can take up this circuit and I will not fill bitterness in the pits of my stomach when I pay to go thru the door.

Well said! Atleast some people get it. Really She has tried to work with him, all she gets is bashing from him on his website, newsletters, and emails. The best thing for the shows would be for him to get out.

 

[audrypayne]

Brett, you call yourself Cathy's friend, but yet you make it look like she's so evil. What about all the crap that was put on his website for everyone to view? I guess you thought that was all right. I have never read any post by Cathy laughing at him. Nor has she written anything that was untrue. As a matter of fact, she sat back & took his $hit for months. You can only kick a dog so many times before it bites you. She's had lies, lies, & more lies posted about her. It's about d@mned time she stood up for herself. All she's guilty of is trying to put on a show that would keep vendors & attendees happy. Who tried to vandalize her shows? Who kept posting all the lies & BS about her. I honestly think that it was time for her to expose the real deal between them. Long overdue. She has tried both publicly & privately to call a truce with him. Yet he emails her back with vicious cursing? Go ahead Brett. Make another excuse about that too. Wake up man. Have you bumped your head lately? I'm worried about you. I personally wish the best for her & Tony. And I do wish the crap would stop. I love doing the shows. BOTH Cathy's & Tony's. And to Chuck-yes, having a venomoid presentation is stupid. Roark's the man. Mohr needs to go feed his cornsnakes.

 

[reptiles world]

brett, enough is enough. Tony is the one that started this and Cathy did try to get along with him. JM exotics and audry do not talk for Cathy, they are just not able to stand by and watch Tony abuse her. And that is what he did. He has done this before to promoters. He attacked Alex when he left him. And by the way Tony's shows started going down hill once Alex left. He attacked Repticon when they 1st started. Do we see a pattern here. I have seen him argue with a vendor at the last Tampa show over Cathy. He was calling her the most offensive name you could think of. And telling this vendor that if he did Cathy's show he could not do his any more. I was so happy when I saw that vendor at Cathy's next show.
I will tell you Tony's problem, his shows were good until Alex left. Now he knows that he can not compete with the other promoters, so he has to call them names and lie about them to venders. Next he will be attacking Upper-works and Roark over the Charleston show.
Tony,
You can still do right. apologize to all the promoters and vendors you have wronged right here right know.
Clean up your act. We all know you need help. Listen to the people close to you.

 

[audrypayne]

What surprised me the most, was the amount of people at Cathy's show that wanted to vend under a different name. How can breeders & businesses be so intimidated by someone that they're afraid to have their real name mentioned on her website, for fear of being banned from the other show? That's BS! Just plain BS.

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

I've never read any of the trash talk mentioned above on tony's website. I do believe you though. And I think that is unprofessional and damaging to the overall market to everyone and probably a large contributer to his show's problems. All I said was the bickering needs to stop and more positive input from both sides would be more productive. I never singled out either side and even made it a point to state that I was speaking equally to both sides. And no Cricket, I did not bump my head. I do have a headache though.

Chuck, no offense bro...although with your ego, I'm sure you will get offended anyway, but your handling and mentoring scares the hell out of me. I don't think I'd want you doing a public show with my name attached either nor would I ever want you teaching my kid anything.

 

[reptiles world]

brett, you did seem to single out Cathy. But just maybe you did not have the whole story. But I was surprised when the webslave backed you up. He should stay out of it until the whole story is out there. And Jeff Mohr you might as well call yourself Tony"s boy. remember if he can't fix himself,your alone. Everyone will remember how you backed up his lies and in doing so hurt other venders and promoters. Stop making yourself look bad and tell the truth about all this. And please stop using venomoids. You look very careless handling them on stage. You give the wrong impression to kids that it is easy to handle venomous snakes. You might as well cool them down to handle them. Better yet if you can't do a lecture with a real live unaltered snake than don't do one at all.

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

Well, here's the thing. I don't go chasing this drama stuff between the promoters down. Now and then Cathy posts threads on some sites I frequent and that's all of this I ever get. I talk to Cathy fairly regularly and talk to Jason and Monica on chat nearly daily. I never talk to Tony and never see any of his rants...because I don't go looking for them. I just came to this thread because Cathy called me and told me about it after Eric posted about the car fire thing and I felt somewhat responsible for making the joke to Tony at his show. SO anyway, If I seem to be attacking Cathy, I'm not. She's busting her butt to make her shows work out and I fully intend to stick with her at every show she does that I can crawl my tired old bones to. It's just that I've seen this public bickering with rival companies before and it's always led to bad times for all. Imagine back in the day if Dave Thomas from Wendys went on TV and ranted and raved about what a back stabbing, liar Ray Crock was. And then Ray Crock got on TV and said that Dave Thomas beats his wife and forced poor people to sell their land for cheap so he could build more burger joints. Do you think this kinda crap would help anyone sell hamburgers?

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

About the webslave backing me up...I was surprised too...check my warning level. He hates my guts lol. I think what he was backing up though was my call for the bickering to end and my statement that it's just not good for the reptile show business. I don't know who started it. I don't care who started it. None of that can be taken back or changed. It simply needs to stop. It's not professional. Anyone with an ounce of buisness sense knows better. If a show is going to happen, it's to everyone in the best interest of anyone in the business anywhere near that market for that show to do well for the sake of future shows in that area.

 

[reptiles world]

your correct. but we can not let Tony keep on doing this. Cathy will sit down and talk to Tony any time. But he wont. All I am asking is for Tony to came forward and end this. I wish Tony nothing but good things, but we can not let him keep attacking promoters and vendors with out a fight. As long as he continues it will end up hurting everyone.

 

[reptiles world]

I do not thing the webslave is worried about the shows. He lives for this. This site would be worthless without this stuff. So can someone tell us way he backed you up?
Could it be that he was not backing you up but backing Tony up?

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

wow my last sentence made no sense lol...I changed the way I wanted to word that and didn't backspace far enough lol...free cage hook at the next show to the first person to properly translate my garble lol

 

[reptiles world]

come on JM you should be able to win the snake hook. What's wrong cat(hy)
got your tongue

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

I had a little talk with Jason last night. I never meant to piss anyone off and I can understand the frustration when they feel that they aren't fighting with Tony but just defending themselves. I guess if some large snakehook company started posting about what cheap crap my snakehooks were, I'd get defensive too...or at least invite them field herping for a little flipping competition lol. I just don't like seeing this stuff being made public. It's too unpredictable who's going to listen to what and follow who...Things like this at least to some degree will always split some people into sides and it just shouldn't be that way. But please understand, it's the war I'm speaking out against, not any of the players.

 

[audrypayne]

It's not that I've taken sides. It's just that I hate to read or hear a bunch of lies about ANYONE that I know is not true. You know how I am. I tell things like they are. Like it or not, and I'm the same way outside from the reptile business as well. I don't beat around the bush, I simply call the shots as I see them. Yes, I can be a b!tch. But at least I'm an honest one. And I expect honesty from others in my life as well.

 

[SCReptiles]

Chuck, no offense bro...although with your ego, I'm sure you will get offended anyway, but your handling and mentoring scares the hell out of me. I don't think I'd want you doing a public show with my name attached either nor would I ever want you teaching my kid anything.

To be offended, I would need to first respect your opinion and you are the man that called a show where the promoter lost thousands of dollars a success. Sorry, with that track record, I can’t put much faith in anything else you have to say.

So, I scare the hell out of you. I guess to join the Brett, Tony, Jeff clique I need to ship all my snakes off to Portland and have their venom glands ripped out. If I were to do that, then would you be more secure and let me in? Either way, not going to happen. I guess Roark and I will stay in exile, since we choose not to disarm our snakes. =)

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

I'm as antivoid as anyone. I'm also anti freehandling and showboating with hots, allowing children to handle them...models for tshirts to handle..I could go on. What risks you are willing to take are your business, just don't blame others for not wanting to be held accountable for your actions.

How did Tony lose thousands of dollars? at 9 bucks a head and at least 5000 people through the door...that comes to 45,000 bucks just off tickets.

 

[Southerncat]

Will someone please tell me where and when I did my share of mudslinging? I have gone back and checked every web site that I have ever posted on, no mudslinging! My posting on the other sites are all the same, word for word. Defending oneself against slanderous, ficticious accusations is not mudslinging. Why do you think I posted about the Atlanta show being postponed/cancelled for that weekend (the first date)? I did that to let people, vendors and attendees know about it so that they wouldn't waste their precious time and fuel and suffer disappointment as well. .Vendors and attendees are the lifeblood of this business. They deserve as much advance notice as possible in order to change plans. They deserve to have all the information to make an informed decision. It was nothing more than a public service announcement. Not everyone who makes plans, buys tickets, etc continues to check for updates. People can become very busy. Why should I have waited until he posted? He said himself that he doesn’t read the forums and it was less than a week to the original show. Brett you know yourself one person can read a post or an email and get something totally different than what the author intended. Take Eric’s “attempted joke” he posted. You believe that you knew where that came from but many others found it inappropriate considering the manner in which it was written and the perception that it was coming from one of Tony's employees. As written it appeared as a serious statement with no laugh out louds or hahas behind it indicating a playful post. I realize by your own admission that you are unaware of the facts and history of this brouhaha but you entered without benefit of all the information anyway. Many who are informed found it to be in poor taste as written regardless of Eric's intentions. I believe that Eric may be a thoughtful and nice young man who may have posted hastily or without really thinking it through. Elroid is one of Tony's favorite terms for me on his website and in vendor's newsletters (aka hem rrhoid). He has many pet names for me according to many vendors and that is supposedly the kindest one. You say we are close friends Brett and that you don't really know Tony that well.....I have taken much abuse from him this past year without slinging the mud back at him. Your responses seem pro Tony as you admitted that you must seem like a "liberal Tony lover." A couple of weeks ago Mr. Roark posted a request for a cease fire at Tony's request. In just a few short days he violated that cease fire by firing off an email letting me know that he considered me to be less than trash effing me up and down. I posted his reply so others could see that I was not inventing his attacks. Where were you my close friend to support me in my time of need then? Was you mouth sewn shut? Why didn't you post then? Mr. Roark's cease fire request was most thoughtfully and elegantly written and produced immediate results. Where was webslave's lil clapping hands then? Where was Jeff Mohr's lil clapping hands then? So much for objectivity. I have never discouraged vendors from vending at others shows. Mr. Cueto however continued to bash me in public accusing me of telling people and vendors that his Greenville show was cancelled. Really! Where would he get a crazy idea like that? It seems that our hiring of Roark to headline the Columbia show got one of our speakers panties in a twist. This speaker who was going to give a few talks in exchange for a few tables became so upset that he withdrew from the show and told Tony the Greenville cancellation nonsense. Mr. Cueto became so enraged at Roark because his presence would give us added credability that he gave Mr. Roark an ultimatum. He asked Mr. Roark to choose between me or him. Mr. Roark chose educating the public and would not bow to his blackmail and threats. Mr. Cueto told him that if he spoke at the Columbia show he would not be the headliner at Mr. Cueto's shows anymore. Mr. Roark honored his commitment to us and the vendors/attendees who supported us and we had a very nice show with a lovely turnout. Mr Cueto has had 3 shows since and the numbers have been dramatically lower than the previous shows with Mr. Roark speaking and ralleying the troops. His huge loss and everyone elses gain. The columbia show was the weekend before the Greenville show. Mr. Roark arrived and passed out hundreds of fliers to the vendors tables and we supported these actions (to the amazement of all) and allowed him to promote Mr. Cueto's upcoming show with numerous and enthusiastic microphone announcements both days.I do care about the vendors and attendees regardless of which show they choose to attend. What many fail to see is this: IF I was out to hurt his show then why would we promote it. That would not be good for the reptile industry. I agree 100% that we should all work together for the good of the industry. I have tried till I am blue in the face to satisfy Mr Cueto (within reason). It takes more than one person to work together! What else can I do or what else is expected of me? Someone please tell me! On another note. Why do we need anger management training? After searching the threads I have found Professor Chuck's posts to be cautious, thoughtful, investigative, provacative, and providing declarations only after examining those facts and careful consideration. He has many times defended Mr. Cueto and others giving them the benefit of the doubt until evidence or logic proved otherwise. Why are his post deemed egotistical or arrogant by you when they provide insight and comfort to so many. Considering all the nonsense Mr. Roark has put up with from Mr. Cueto in the wake of the fallout it continues to amaze me that he went out of his way to support Mr. Cueto at our show. Just yesterday I visited his site and he still had Mr. Cueto's site listed. Roark's site disappeared from Mr. Cueto's site as soon as Roark commited to speak at our show. Must be those anger management sessions he needs to attend. Have to run now and attend my own. Seriously folks, there is only so much crap you can get on the bottom of your shoes before you can’t walk any more without scraping it off!

 

[reptiles world]

Brett, you are now a Tony boy. there is no way he had 5000 people at atlanta, try more like 1200. please stop this insane backing of Tony's lies.

 

[eric adrignola]

Well, I'll never be in your "click" as my wife doens't allow* me to keep
snakes - let alone venomous snakes!

I finally broke down and asked around about exactly what was going on
with Toyn and Cathy. I've heard little bits and stuff, but not enough to
get the whole picture. Damn.

Had I known the extent of the situation, I wouldn't have posted the joke,
even with a very obvious disclaimer. I'm going to try to contact Cathy
again and let her know.

I feel really horrible about the situation (the overall situation). Much of
the facts I had known, but never put them together, or had forgotten.
For a while, I thought Tony was - at first - on the moral high ground,
because Cathy put up a show in HIS market, with a similar name.
Interesting to know the little, tiny, itsy-bitsy details that change
everything. It's a good thing I never bothred to jump in the discussions, I
was even less informed about the feud than I thought, and would have
looked like a total a$$ defending him.

Tony, I've got to say, has been nothing but awesome to me. I have
never been wronged by him in any major way. I truely hope I can work
for him - in the future. Everyone appreciates the things that he has done
for the industry. I also think everyone would like to see him get things
back in shape again. Unfortunatly, I also believe Tony's actions are not
fully under his control now. Reasoning with him wont' get anywhere until
he gets certain things under control. Tony's got very VERY serious
problems, and I worry about him. It is no surprise, that, with such
problems, he doesn't consider others. Not his employees, nobody.
Though I have always been paid, and treated well, others have not. His
most faithful, and hardest working employees are not taken care of.
Every time I work for him, and GET paid, that's money they aren't
getting paid. I'm not doing it anymore. It's unfair. I feel I'm facilitating
his ill-treatment of them by working for them. I don't "need' the money.
It's money I spend on my hobby - these people work full time to get his
shows up and running. I can't bring myself to do that to them.

When Tony cleans things up, starts paying them what they're owed, and
resolves this stupid feud that does nothing but cause trouble in the hobby,
I'll work for him again. This hobby has enough trouble from it's enemies
on the outside, no good will come out of fighting on the inside.



*she doesn't, but I have no desire anyway, so I was able to marry her in
good faith.

 

[reptiles world]

Way to go Cathy. Very one should know you are not out to hurt anyone. If you were you would have named Jeff Mohr as the person who spread those rumors, about you and the greenville show. Jeff you should not have been jealous of Roark. You should have went to Cathy's columbia show and learned how to do a lecture from Roark. Maybe than you would be able to do yours with real snakes.