The Pied project...Myth?

[cahrens]

So we've all heard and read that the amount of white in pieds is random. I've never really bought that line. It always seemed to me that the people saying that are trying to sell low white animals. Don't get me wrong, I like the low white pieds better. Their pattern is cool and there are so many ways to make a white snake plus,the pied gene has much greater potential than that. So back in 2006, I bought a pied male(Pied male 1). He's probably 70-75% white. I bred him to CH normal girls and held back all the female babies. Now for the sake of this theory, I'm going to call them "HHW" or Het High White. I raised them up to size and bred them back to the father. I consistently produced high white babies. Not usually, always. Every single baby was at least as white as the father with some showing even more white. Year after year, when bred to his HHW daughters, they produce high white babies. A couple years ago, maybe 2010, (I'm not sure and don't feel like digging for the receipt), I bought 2 low white males(Pied male 2, and Pied male 3). Last fall, I bred these 2 low white males to some of the HHW females. I think the results speak for themselves. Finally, I was able to produce lower white animals. Mostly medium white. None are as low as the fathers but there is a big difference within the clutches. Some babies are higher white and some are lower. It would appear that the amount of white is random, if I didn't know the genetics involved. I feel as though people don't track the amount of white in the parents of hets and that's an important factor in determining what will be produced when bred to a visual. My conclusion... High white pied x HHW= High white babies. Low white pied x HHW= Variable white babies. I only wish I had some het low white females to breed back to the low white males. The problem is, I bred them to the HHW females so I couldn't count on the purity concerning the low white aspect. Anyway,... On with the pictures! First up, Pied male 1 and his offspring...

 

[cahrens]

More of his babies...

 

[cahrens]

Couple more. The last 1 is a male and has gone to his new home already, hence the different pic in case anyone was wondering.

 

[cahrens]

Now for the next male and his offspring...

 

[cahrens]

Last but certainly not least... Is there really a least when we're talking pieds?

 

[cahrens]

More...

 

[Helenthereef]

All stunners and an interesting topic, looking forward to the discussion.

Now if only you could breed guaranteed smilies as in post 3

 

[cahrens]

Those smileys do pop up from time to time. Look at the pic just before that. You can see the "eyes". Interestingly, the eyes are on the snakes left side with the "mouth" on the right. The one you referred to is the only male I held back this year. I didn't really need another male but...Ahh whatever. What's 1 more right?

 

[Reptile Frenzy]

Interesting topic. Seems like you might be onto something here. Never have produced pieds YET but i think more along the lines of high white will produce high white like you said. With knowing what will produce what you can balance out what you produce according to the demand of wether people want high or low white pieds. Everybody has their own taste and their own way of selective breeding. Thanks for the post.

 

[TexasVipRoom]

Ill post pictures this afternoon but this is the first year I have produced pieds and it was a high white visual pied to 100% het pied pairing. I hatched out 3 pieds and interestingly enough two are very high white and one is 50/50. It may be a fluke it may not. I am not sure but thought I would add my findings to maybe help support ur theory.

 

[cahrens]

Ill post pictures this afternoon but this is the first year I have produced pieds and it was a high white visual pied to 100% het pied pairing. I hatched out 3 pieds and interestingly enough two are very high white and one is 50/50. It may be a fluke it may not. I am not sure but thought I would add my findings to maybe help support ur theory.

Do you know the parentage of your het? Was the pied parent of the het high or low white? This is where I think it gets blurry. Nobody tracks how much white is in a hets parent, just what the het percentage is.

 

[TexasVipRoom]

Yes the female was 100% het pied and the male was a visual high white pied. I cant speak for the parents of the het. That makes a good point. I may hold one of mine back and check it out bc i know the history of these hets. good point

 

[piedplus]

Very interesting, thanks! Like you, I suspected that amount of color could be bred in. Good insight.

 

[CornNut]

I know someone has selectively bred the piebald asf's (a co-dominant gene) to be almost completely white. I suspect there are other genes that help the pied gene to dominate.

Do the high white producing het pieds tend to have really good markers? How about the het pied babies from clutches with high white pieds vs. the hets from clutches with low white pieds?

 

[charlene.dourty]

This is very interesting. i have a medium white pied male and a low white pied female. I will have to keep close records of what I produce when i breed them. I also just picked up a pastel het pied female so I will have to ask what the pastel pied father was.

 

[David Reid]

I had a male low white Pied, I mean, about as low white as you could get, and he never once produced anything low white, his offspring were at least 50% white up to about 95% white. I got my Het females from different people, so cannot comment on the amount of white in my Het female's parent Pied.

Dave

 

[cahrens]

I know someone has selectively bred the piebald asf's (a co-dominant gene) to be almost completely white. I suspect there are other genes that help the pied gene to dominate.

Do the high white producing het pieds tend to have really good markers? How about the het pied babies from clutches with high white pieds vs. the hets from clutches with low white pieds?

I've never paid any attention to the markers on them. I've had lots of normal balls that had awesome het pied markers. I've bred some of them to pieds and never got lucky. I've also had some het pieds that don't have any markers so I never put too much stock into the markers.