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The scoop on Aurora

crotalusadamanteus

crotalusadamanteus

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Just got back from the Vets office. First let Me say, I have had the same vet for several years, and was informed He was "the man" when it came to reptiles. I have used Him and had zero problems. He's a great vet, and has done stuff for Me for free. But turns out He is not the only one in town like I was informed. When it came time for the questions about the live liver biopsy, and necropsy of the young that perished when born, and what all I was looking for test wise, I was referred to another Vet named Nancy Harvey. Apparantly, She is "the woman" to see when it comes to exotics and reptiles. Whew! LOL

Anyway, as I suspected, Aurora has an RI AND Stomatitis, "most likely caused by the RI, and poor husbandry". Gee, wouldn't have figured that comin from such a caring person as Luis.
She is grossly under weight. You can feel and see every rib, and it really is sickening to the touch. Which the gestation and 4 months off feed probably caused, I understand this. She is now at only 18.8 lbs. My last weight record is 5/27/05, just 1 day before drop off in AZ. She was 24 lbs by My scale. (184 - Me at 160) She did grow some. She was at 7' 10" best I could measure last april, and now best I could get was 8' 3".
We pulled a couple small pieces of the necrotic tissue out of her mouth, and rinsed. It has been caught at the beginning stages, so treatment won't be that bad. (except she is still DAMN strong, and resistful) LOL And she prescribed oral Batryl 68 mg every 48 hours @ 8 doses. And I got a compliment for a good diagnosis, and a beautiful Boa. :D HA HA HA

Now here's where it gets sorta wierd. As you can imagine, I was full of questions about necropsy's, biopsy's, fecals, and blood work. She pretty much refused to try and culture anything from the dead babies, "unless I just want to waist my money on getting a possible incorrect answer, because it has been too long a time lapse." I said, the still borns were placed in plastic bags, and refridgerated @ 44 degrees for only 2 1/2 days. She says, "I'm talking about hours after. It can give false readings or none for some culture tests." She said the same thing about any fecal exams, and She wants Aurora's as soon as I get one. And freezing is a definate DO NOT when it comes to culturing as we already knew. The time thing though........
I don't wish to think she is wrong, when she may actually be correct. I was after all referred to her by My own herp vet for this purpose. But how much have I read, and you all for that matter, on it being ok to store in fridge, and not ok to freeze? I am somewhat stumped here. The fridge is to slow down some of the processes, and keep fresh. Or so I thought.
A solution came from the doctor................#6 baby is still not looking that good. He does have one obvious defective eye, and appears to be weakening even more. He's lethargic, and not very alert. You can rearrange his posture, and his reaction is slow. He's not cold, but he still acts like He is. I am concidering euthanizing it, and have the necropsy and culturing done from the little one. :(

Anyway, on to happier things.............ever tried to stuff a pill the size of a thick dime up a dead rats butt? Interesting and challenging thing right there. HA HA HA (The things we will do for our pets). I gave Aurora her first dose today. Another large rat with pill "inserted". I am questioning how I am supposed to get a snake to eat a rat every other day for 2 weeks? I thought this very odd, and actually questioned the vet on this. I think this is entirely way too often to feed. My alternative is injections, and 3 times a week for that. That would be a lot of stress on Her, bagging, the ride, unbagging, check up and injection, rebagging, ride home, unbagging and 3 times a week. She don't need any more for now, so I will have to try some smallish rats or something. She had a colossal rat Saturday, 500+ gr, and 2 @ 400 gr on Sunday. and now a 300 grammer today. I hope she'll take them, and hope no problems mixing the 1/2 digested with the new food.

I am going to ask someone I met once about this "fresh" or no culture thing. provided I can find the number I was given. Just to have another oppinion. Seems strange it would need to be within hours. Maybe even email the AzVDL and ask them how they could even accept Matts snake being frozen for so long. Could email D. Mader at UC Davis. Might get lucky and get one back. LOL But I bet he'd know.

Anyway, just needed to share My woes. I am sure Aurora will get better. Even if I cant get her to take all her meds, She has already shown a vaste improvement with her RI. We caught the mouth rot early, so We are in fair shape now. We just need to fatten up My girl. LOL I don't like seeing her ribs at all. Just sends a pang into my innards.


Rick
 
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Very cool Rick.Sounds like your girl is doing good and on the road to full recovery.My suggestion is to feed weanling or sm rats with the meds.That almost adds up to the weight of a jumbo rat.Wouldnt want a regurge or anything.Maybe up the temps a little aswell but you most likely done this cause of the RI.
Anyways you have it all under control and all the best buddy.
Keep us all updated.
 
Hi Rick,

Glad everything is being taken care of, glad shes home with you. I just wanted to say me ex-wife worked for a vet and I remember the vet saying the same thing for the tests they perform. That they need it within hours of death to be accurate, I don't remember that exact percent the accuracy goes down after that. It is true refrigeration slows down the bacteria, but it doesnt do it as well as we think it should.

Hope the rest of the lil' buggers do great!!
 
Just fixed a typo above. She was actually 24 lbs, not 34. OOPPS!

Anyway, I have raised her temps, and was thinking about the smaller rat thing already. It's just that TOO small can be hard for a large snake to get down also. With out help that is. But I'll figure it out.


For now though, like mentioned, she is not as bad off as I worried she would be. We'll see how she is in another week.

Thanks for the concerns. I'll keep ya'll updated.


Rick
 
Rick, sooo glad she is going to be okay.
These "animals" are our children, so when one is not feeling well, we tend to suffer as well.
I will keep you and Aurora in my thoughts and prayers.
 
Well, it's great to hear that everything is getting taken care of....and I'm sure just being home and properly cared for makes a world of difference in itself. :)
 
I'll confirm that (from my understanding) the fresher the sample the better. They want same day stool samples for the fecals. And the longer the wait for samples/cultures, the less accurate the results...even with refrigeration.
 
I agree on the fecal but think it is very odd that she advised you to put a pill inside a rat and feed every 2 days. That is entirely too much and I question the ability for the snake to be properly dosed this way. Why wouldn't she just teach you how to give the injections? They are very easy and when done correctly cause a minimal amount of pain. Less than the regurge is going to cause (which in my opinion, feeding every 2 days will cause). I would check with another vet because it seems very strange.
 
Baytril has been shown to be effective orally, and it eliminates the tissue necrosis that it is infamous for causing when injected. I don't know that I would stuff the tablet into a rat, though...that is great for weekly (or even 2x/weekly) dosing, but really pushing your luck for Q48hrs. If she will take small or medium rats, that might work; but I would still be concerned with the way its release depended on digestion of the rodent. I'd be more inclined to mix in water and tube it in (which would take care of the hydration concerns that accompany nephrotoxic antibiotic administration)
 
hhmoore said:
Baytril has been shown to be effective orally, and it eliminates the tissue necrosis that it is infamous for causing when injected. I don't know that I would stuff the tablet into a rat, though...that is great for weekly (or even 2x/weekly) dosing, but really pushing your luck for Q48hrs. If she will take small or medium rats, that might work; but I would still be concerned with the way its release depended on digestion of the rodent. I'd be more inclined to mix in water and tube it in (which would take care of the hydration concerns that accompany nephrotoxic antibiotic administration)
Click to expand...

I definitely wasn't disagreeing with administering Baytril orally, but rather the method. Who knows about absorption during digestion? Also that is way too much food for such a short period of time.
 
My alternative is injections, and 3 times a week for that. That would be a lot of stress on Her, bagging, the ride, unbagging, check up and injection, rebagging, ride home, unbagging and 3 times a week.
Click to expand...

Will your vet not give you filled syringes to administer the meds via injection? I had treated a turtle with shell rot with injections, and my vet had no issues providing me syringes with the necassary doses.
 
I know for a fact from giving a rescued burmese python shots years ago, that large snakes and injections are not a 1 person job. The bigger the snake, the more people you need. LOL!!
 
Well, I agree with the feeding too much thing you are saying. In fact, I questioned her about it. Seems she can't give me the injectible Batryl though, or would not. I know how to administer the injections. I have done it before. I could try to ask her again, or My usual doctor.

As for the injections being a "more than one person job", Usually you are correct. I was shown how to do it with the snake "partially bagged" (kinda like tubing a rattler)and the tail end sticking out. It adds a large amount of control over the situation. But still requires bagging frequently. I guess that is lees stress than the ride and all that.

Thanks again, I will reconsult on this. I would rather inject also, though i know it is powerful stuff, and many things have happened like mentioned above. I just think it works quicker.


Rick
 
We won't ever use injectible Baytril... Claforan is much better, not as damaging to the skin or liver. Although it also depends on the bacteria. We had to use the Claforan injections, oral Baytril and a nebulizer with 3 other meds to cure a nasty RI and an eye infection from a blocked duct.
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
As for the injections being a "more than one person job", Usually you are correct. I was shown how to do it with the snake "partially bagged" (kinda like tubing a rattler)and the tail end sticking out. It adds a large amount of control over the situation. But still requires bagging frequently. I guess that is lees stress than the ride and all that.
Rick
Click to expand...
You'll need a lot more than the tail end sticking out, since the injections should be done in the upper 1/3 of the body
 
hhmoore said:
You'll need a lot more than the tail end sticking out, since the injections should be done in the upper 1/3 of the body
Click to expand...

I've been advised to do them middle 1/3. Almost halfway down the snakes body.
 
WOW! I guess you are not supposed to question a Vets prescribed treatment. LOL She sorta hit the ceiling. And refused to sell Me injectable AB's. So I called My usual vet, and He agrees with Me. WAY TOO OFTEN to feed. So I will crush and administer orally Myself via catheter and syringe. This should be fun. HA HA. But I am more comfortable with that than the rat every other day thing.

Thanks for the advice. Don't think I will use this vet for more than the testing she was recommended for. Since I am not "Degreed" like her, I know nothing about the herps I've kept successfully for 30 years.


Rick
 
I was a bit off - blame it on a rushed post, I guess - what I meant was about 1/3 down. I won't dispute mid-body, because it still works with the reasoning I was given (that you want to be well upstream of the kidneys).
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
WOW! I guess you are not supposed to question a Vets prescribed treatment. LOL She sorta hit the ceiling. And refused to sell Me injectable AB's. So I called My usual vet, and He agrees with Me. WAY TOO OFTEN to feed. So I will crush and administer orally Myself via catheter and syringe. This should be fun. HA HA. But I am more comfortable with that than the rat every other day thing.

Thanks for the advice. Don't think I will use this vet for more than the testing she was recommended for. Since I am not "Degreed" like her, I know nothing about the herps I've kept successfully for 30 years.


Rick
Click to expand...
Did she retract her compliment, as well?
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
WOW! I guess you are not supposed to question a Vets prescribed treatment. LOL She sorta hit the ceiling. And refused to sell Me injectable AB's. So I called My usual vet, and He agrees with Me. WAY TOO OFTEN to feed. So I will crush and administer orally Myself via catheter and syringe. This should be fun. HA HA. But I am more comfortable with that than the rat every other day thing.

Thanks for the advice. Don't think I will use this vet for more than the testing she was recommended for. Since I am not "Degreed" like her, I know nothing about the herps I've kept successfully for 30 years.


Rick
Click to expand...

Sounds like its a good choice to stick with your vet. This other one sounds like she has something to hide (lack of knowledge maybe?) Tubing is not particularly difficult but you will want to have someone to help you. Its going to be less harsh on Aurora than feeding her every other day! Best of luck!

J
 
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