Bad Guy The Serpentarium- Lodi, Ca

[Kolt4-5]

I will say that you have retained our dignity in a situation that many would not have. Which is something that is very noteworthy.

How ever I will also say that in my opinion these questions are still on topic. The reason being if I understand the intent of the BOI, it's purpose is to help both buyers and sellers get informed on the business practices of people we may potentially do business with. So as long as the questions are pertaining to your business practices I believe it's still on topic and staying within' the intent of the thread.

I will also say that while you have cleared up some things in regards to the business transfer I still find there are questions which went unanswered. I understand now that you say you where already in the process of filing bankruptcy. I also understand that your saying you never claimed to pay Mr. Cullingham which is not the same as saying you didn't your just you making sure we understand you never made such claims. You've also stated you feel you are responsible for your success, noted and I'm not challenging it.

What I don't understand is you say Mr. Cullingham made the mistake of his own accord without speaking to you first to transfer the business to you, after that fact did you pay him the remainder of what he asked for? If you didn't can I ask why?

 

[TheSerpentarium]

After discussing the topic of Bill's long-standing history with the business, along with his achievements, etc., we have decided that it would be fair to create an About Us page on our website that accurately explains the ENTIRE history of The Serpentarium. We have absolutely no problem with giving Bill the credit he deserves and would gladly do so.


Bill,

In order for the write up to be truly complete and accurate, most of it would have to come from you. Are you interested? If so, please email me when you have something ready and I'll get it posted right away.

Best regards,

Robert Coral
The Serpentarium

 

[ronritzer]

So we have 20 plus pages of a thread about a guy who was unhappy with a snake, was offered a refund and refused it. So far concerns the actual topic of this thread, the history of the Serpentarium aside, its rather obvious that as a seller, Robert did indeed do the right thing and offered this kid a full refund.
How would it serve him to intentionally order a wild caught snake to deceive a customer who thought he was ordering a captive bred one, only to offer him a full refund and essentially take a loss and waste a bunch of his own time? Over a $100? Over a snake he neither keeps nor breeds in his store? For a store that has two locations, a distribution center and expensive billboards? Seems highly doubtful.

I think Brandon needs to rethink how exactly this all went down and apologize to Robert. He either takes the refund and returns the snakle or he doesnt. Its really so, so simple of a matter its ridiculous.

 

[ronritzer]

NOt to mention that besdie a few sores (i dont know much about snake health or what infection looks like on a snake) the snake, which has been pointed out is a very difficult species EVEN WHEN CAPTIVE BRED looks to otherwise have a healthy weight...

Brandon or GBU people....Does this snake eat and drink?

 

[TheSerpentarium]

How ever I will also say that in my opinion these questions are still on topic. The reason being if I understand the intent of the BOI, it's purpose is to help both buyers and sellers get informed on the business practices of people we may potentially do business with. So as long as the questions are pertaining to your business practices I believe it's still on topic and staying within' the intent of the thread.

Fair enough, but there has to be an eventual end. With members like Wilomn, I don't ever see that happening in this case (no offense intended on him).

What I don't understand is you say Mr. Cullingham made the mistake of his own accord without speaking to you first to transfer the business to you, after that fact did you pay him the remainder of what he asked for? If you didn't can I ask why?

His name is spelled, Gillingham.

When the business unfortunately became dissolved through BK by the state - when Bill transferred the building, not business (an important distinction), our contract became void/null. When we sought legal council to determine the best course of action going forward, we were strongly advised not to make payments to Bill, due to potential legal ramifications.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

When the business unfortunately became dissolved through BK by the state - when Bill transferred the building, not business (an important distinction), our contract became void/null. When we sought legal council to determine the best course of action going forward, we were strongly advised not to make payments to Bill, due to potential legal ramifications.

And what was that?


The only reason why I think that would be so is that it would show the debt wasn't charged off in the bankruptcy and you might be actually liable to pay the full amount. Why would it matter? Unless of course you don't want that obligation.

 

[TheSerpentarium]

That's right! I forgot about that. And Jeremy still let him vend, even though he opened up shop a few miles away. Wonder how that's going...

We actually approached Jeremy before we opened our Elk Grove location to ask if he minded. Jeremy is a great guy and I'm sure he would gladly attest to us doing so.

Robert Coral
The Serpentarium

 

[Kolt4-5]

And what was that?


The only reason why I think that would be so is that it would show the debt wasn't charged off in the bankruptcy and you might be actually liable to pay the full amount. Why would it matter? Unless of course you don't want that obligation.

I myself am also curious as to the nature of the negative legal ramifications of paying Mr. Gillingham off would be. I won't venture a guess as to what they are but I would like to know what they are.

Also if I'm understanding this correctly does that mean that Mr Gillingham only got payed that $53,000 from the bankruptcy settlement he mentioned earlier, or did some money transfer hands prior?

I also want to say that believe it or not in my opinion these last couple of post's give some true insight into the difficulties of running a business. I was aware of many of what's been posted with the exception of perhaps bankruptcy law. I know personally about a lot of the bankruptcy laws in NY because I had considered declaring it in the past but opted instead not to go through with it. I'm not sure how the laws differ in other locals and there have been a lot of changes to said laws over the past couple of years. For those not in the know I think this thread is fairly informative. People are seeing first hand how things we don't consider or are aware of can really compromise someone trying to go into business or someone selling one.

 

[ronritzer]

I also want to say that believe it or not in my opinion these last couple of post's give some true insight into the difficulties of running a business.... People are seeing first hand how things we don't consider or are aware of can really compromise someone trying to go into business or someone selling one.

yep, thats for sure

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I myself am also curious as to the nature of the negative legal ramifications of paying Mr. Gillingham off would be. I won't venture a guess as to what they are but I would like to know what they are.

It's not that hard to understand. By making payments it would be acknowledgement of the debt still after bankruptcy. His expanding now, presumably out of bankruptcy, and his being mindful of legal and financial concerns. Morality of the situation has taken a backseat.

In my humble opinion of course.

 

[Skiploder]

Robert, please fill in the blank:

I, Robert Coral, have paid Bill Gillingham _______________ of the $228,000.00 I agreed to pay him.

Then please circle the most appropriate response:

I, Robert Coral, informed / did not inform Bill Gillingham that I was in the middle of bankruptcy when I agreed to buy the business from him.

That was a nice long post you made. Unfortunately, as you can see by the ensuing discussion, there are a few people that will eagerly eat it, and others who won't.

Fill in the blank, Robert, tell us much of your original debt to Mr. Gillingham have you honored and then tell us why you are refusing to honor the rest.

And if you don't mind answering the double jeopardy bonus question(s) while you are at - it actually the one most people are probably scratching their collective heads about right now.

Namely Robert how someone so verbose and eloquent as yourself would not know that anything that was an asset (a building or a business) would not get sucked into the vortex of a bankruptcy. You claim you filed for bankruptcy BEFORE you entered into the agreement with Mr. Gillingham (and I fully, truly believe that you did Robert), so you cannot claim ignorance as to the process of personal bankruptcy and what it involves.

After all Robert, why in the hell were you agreeing to a $228K debt with Mr. Gillingham when you were in the middle of liquidating your existing assets to pay your existing creditors.

For the rest of you who are yo-yoing back in forth, let me lay something out for you. While I have never filed for bankruptcy, a very close friend recently did and before he filed, his lawyer advised him of the rules. Which he bemoaned to me quite frequently.

One of the first things that you apparently are made aware of during personal bankruptcy is that under bankruptcy law, you need to gain the trustee’s permission before you make any purchases - even when my buddy had to buy a washing machine to replace a broken one, he had to get permission from the trustee and was scaled back to buying a moldy old second hand one.

So my dumb ironworker friend knew that, but Mr. Coral thought it was advisable to spend $228K without notifying the trustee (have I got that right Robert?) and was genuinely hurt and surprised to find out that it was a gigantic red flag and a no no?

But I digress - let's get back to the questions that cut to the heart of the matter AND your character Robert:

How much of the agreed debt did you pay Bill, did you disclose to him you were in bankruptcy when you made the deal and do you seriously think that some of us are stupid enough to think that you did not know that attempting to take on an additional quarter of a million dollars of debt during bankruptcy proceedings was an shady move?

 

[Skiploder]

Morality of the situation has taken a backseat.

Indeed. It appears that Mr. Coral has gone from attempting to make gigantic purchases under bankruptcy to now making fine legal distinctions.

Looks like Bill is SOL. Mr. Coral has found a semantic legal loophole that allows him to avoid paying off his personal debt to Bill.

Unfortunately for Robert, while that loophole offers him the ability to avoid paying Bill the rest of the debt, that loophole does nothing for his morality and character.

He will ride out the rest of his days thinking that there is a small group of fanatics who are unfairly painting him as a bad guy and the he genuinely has done right by Mr. Gillingham.

Sadly, he fails to realize that offering Bill some half assed tribute on his web page and spewing out eloquent posts in defense of himself will not absolve him of his moral obligations.

The bottom line is that if the Great Valley Sepentarium was worth $228K and that was the agreed sale price of the whole kit and kaboodle, then the old owner should be paid $228K - regardless of new owner's dumb financial moves and regardless of the unintended semantics of the deal that a lawyer was able to pick through at a later date.

If the old owner did not receive his $228K, he was screwed and no amount of BS page long posts explaining the unintended legal intricacies of the deal by the new owner can clear him of that debt.

 

[Lucille]

It's not that hard to understand. By making payments it would be acknowledgement of the debt still after bankruptcy. His expanding now, presumably out of bankruptcy, and his being mindful of legal and financial concerns. Morality of the situation has taken a backseat.

In my humble opinion of course.

Bill, did Robert acknowledge his debt to you after the bankruptcy and pay on it after?

yes, and he made a couple of payments, at least one for sure.

I PMed Bill yesterday and suggested he contact a local attorney. Robert 's long explanation of what went down conveniently avoids the fact that Robert made a business deal for a certain sum, apparently was going to do what was honorable and pay Bill the agreed sum for the business as evidenced by Bill's claim that he acknowledged and paid on the debt even after the bankruptcy.

We were advised by our attorney to not pay you, due to possible legal ramifications.

In my personal opinion, the Serpentarium has taken a path both slimy and dishonorable by taking legal advice and avoid a debt they allegedly acknowledged after the bankruptcy.

However, I am extremely busy and honestly do not have the time for this inappropriate thread.

Straight out of the Scammer's Handbook, in my opinion. When others finally realize how the deal really is going down you don't man up, you leave. And how dare you use the word 'honest'.

 

[KORBIN5895]

Correct me if I am wrong but if you pay the remainder of a debt after it has been absolved in bankruptcy can't other creditors come after you also?

My mother lost her restaurant a couple of years back. She had bought it from a friend on a personal loan before the recession hit. She was going to pay the remainder ( the bank wasn't holding the deed because her friend was doing a rent to own type deal ) and her lawyer told her this advice. While my mom was going through personal bankruptcy they tried to start a business name to get a loan to buy the restaurant from her friend. Unfortunately it didn't work. Thankfully my mom's friend got to keep her restaurant.

 

[Lucille]

her lawyer told her this advice.

Name the lawyer, and describe exactly what he said.

In some bankruptcies, affirmations are made during the process itself so that the party going through bankruptcy can retain a vehicle or similar, this does not affect the process as to the other creditors.

 

[KORBIN5895]

Well my mother lives in central IL and I live in New Brunswick so I can't describe exactly what was said. My mother's name is Darla Burns and I don't know the lawyer's name.

My mothers bankruptcy was a personal one and the money she used as a down payment was a personal loan.

I understand some necessities ( like a vehicle and a house) can be kept through a bankruptcy. Unfortunately I can't tell you exactly what is covered under the bankruptcy protection ( couldn't think of how to word it) nor do I understand how Robert and Bill did their transaction.

My lack of knowledge is what led me to ask my last question because I want to understand this.

 

[Lucille]

I don't know the lawyer's name.

If you can't name the lawyer, saying that 'my Mom's lawyer said' would appear to be claiming information from an anonymous third party.

Once debts are discharged in bankruptcy, creditors can be held in contempt and fined for trying to collect on a discharged debt. However, the person who has gone through bankruptcy can choose to pay a discharged debt.

http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/Bankruptcy/BankruptcyBasics/DischargeInBankruptcy.aspx

 

[Wilomn]

I was not aware that property could be transferred to a new owner without the new owner signing for it.

Also, what about doing what's right? You've got money for two stores, a distribution center, thousands of animals and expensive billboards, but you can't pay a guy the money you promised him? Screw the bankruptcy and your lawyer, you KNOW what's right and you KNOW this is wrong.

You're not stupid. Greedy, underhanded, deceitful, honourless, most assuredly. I'd go so far as to say you're a lair too. No one with the experience you have, who keeps thousands of reptiles, has two stores and a distribution center could possibly be unaware that there are captive redtail green rats out there. Even I knew it and I'm not anywhere near as involved in the reptile world as you, mr. coral. I suspect that other things you have said were less than truthful as well.

I think you've painted quite the ugly picture of yourself, your family and your values.

 

[rosebud945]

How much of the agreed debt did you pay Bill, did you disclose to him you were in bankruptcy when you made the deal and do you seriously think that some of us are stupid enough to think that you did not know that attempting to take on an additional quarter of a million dollars of debt during bankruptcy proceedings was an shady move?

The BK (Bankruptcy) was NOT initiated after the business transaction. We had filed well before we even knew Bill was selling the business. We never mentioned the personal BK because it was just that, personal,

You couldn't have been this ignorant. I too want to know why you can't start paying Bill what you clearly still owe him. He made a mistake in trusting. You failed him by not disclosing your financial situation, and now you are trying to just ignore the debt that you owe him, by what, putting his name up in lights, so to speak??? That to me is casting a smoke screen.

Start paying the man what you owe him. You might have made changes to that business since you took it over, but it is clear to me that much of its success is still based on HIS good name.

 

[GBU Enterprises]

Robert and Marcie were once very good friends. I had been warned not to trust Robert but I did because when I allow someone into my heart I give with my all. He betrayed the trust and love I had for them.
This will not matter to some, some will say I am the competition so can't be trusted, but those that know me, know of me, know I am speaking from the heart.
I know YOU, Robert Coral, for the liar you are. That is enough for me.
There will be no explainations.