THE SNAKE PIT WAS BURGLARIZED *AGAIN* LAST NIGHT!!

[franklinedwards60]

I want to know how Dave knows what the report says when Rich has yet to see the report?  And Rich is the one that paided the bill off.

 

[Dave Lawson]

You are correct Devon,But I do have a question for Neil,Most of the things in that list you had I never said or even mentioned.

These are just some of the things Dave Lawson has accused me of in the last two weeks....I'll let you decide...


1. told the health dept. that the tattoo place was using dirty needles

Never said it.

2. called you claiming to be james

Nope,not me

3. told you that you sent me all sorts of money

Only repeating what a known liar told me...you

4. told ben siegel and xtreme reptiles that I ratted them out with airborne and ups for shipping snakes

Ben posted that is was not me

5. point blank told everyone that I stole the money with james

nope

6. told lyman that i stole money from him

Sorry,Lyman said that you stole it from him,you never gave it to him

7. said I stole his pictures that were ON LOAN to me??

No,I said they were on loan and "you" said you ripped them up

8. called julie's mother and job tring to get her fired

Never said it.

9. told tom crowley to look at me

Nope,wrong

10. I did not own the snake pit

repearing what your dad told me,Rich Z. and Crowley

11. told ray marteliz that I ratted him out to the fish and game for possession of endangered animals

12. defrauded the insurance company

13. stole my own snakes, shipped them out of state, then
brought them back in and resold them

When did I say that?


14. padded my (non-existing) insurance claim

You had insurance on the 3/2001 and you did claim more then you lost

15. that my iguana cage is nailed to the floor and it had to have been moved from inside??

I believe I said Glued  and tiled in

16. that I bought an adult boa from ben siegel

Again.only repeating the words of you.

17. that the boa I bought from ben siegel is the one that was stolen and THEN I sold it to damion wyatt

I only said that you sold Wyatt one in Dec. before the burglary.

18. told everyne that I tried to get TWO snakes listed on the insurance form instead of only one

you listed 1.1 adult albino boas when you only had one

19. I said the hypo boa that was stolen was 6 feet long and gravid

where did I say that?

20. I stomped on my own animals, klling them

nope never said it.

21. emailed everybody he could to downgrade me

show them to me if I did

22. told everyone that I threatened to kil josie

Josie posted the e-mail,I never said it

23. told people that I was responsible for all 4 burglaries

and you were

24. told my "mouse guy" that I called the board of health on him

nope,wrong never said it

25. told ray that i have been accusing him of the burglaries

nope,wrong

26. told julie to hold my snakes because the place was gonna get burglarized???

3 people heard it ,not counting Lyman

27. that I lied to the detective

you did

28. that i've been spreading the detective's name all over town

again when did I say that?


29. that I refused to let the cops do their job by not letting them fingerprint

yes you did

30. said that I wasn't even there after the the may burglary...I was home sleeping???

You said that you were home sleeping

31. I told someone that a customer of mine was an idiot for buying a "reguar aru" for $1200

You said "JACKA$$"

32. told that I falsified the snake's records (aru)

nEVER SAID IT.

33. emailed the BUYER and told him things like I scammed him?

Nope never did it,but have him post them.

34. said I "neatly unplugged the vcr before taking it off the shelf

Nope not even close

35. said to everyone that I usd a key to get into one of the cabinets

No,I said that a key was used to unlock it

36. said that there were only "a couple" of tanks broken, so it wouldn't have taken more than an hour to clean up?

no,said there was like 15 tanks broken

37. told people that I was the ONLY ONE who knew that that was the only window not alarmed

how many people did you tell?I wasn't one of them

38. told everyone that you were in Europe and wouldn't be back till late next week?

Hey ,I get lied to also.

39. told people that YOU didn't believe me at all

That is what he said,bit as you said "he played me like a fiddle"

40. said I lied about the police reports

You have not proven me wrong yet.

41. told people that I sent crowley on wild goose chases

I think that is even in the report.


42. told people that I TOLD everbody that HE robbed my store

Dang,Neil your e-mail was posted

43. called all the other pet shops around telling them to be careful if I happen to come in (I heard this...hearsay)

Nope,but feel free to have one post that I did.

44. I supposedly kicked someone out of my store because they wore a competitor's t-shirt?

When did I post that?

45. my store is covered wall to wall with mites and roaches

Again never said it.

46. told everyone that he lined his cage with the cease and disist order

I did

47. told people that I wanted crowley's report so I could destroy it because it blames me?

Where is that posted?

48. Lied to Crowley from the beginning

Who lied you or me?

49. threatened to have me "eating through a straw" if I ever faced him with any of this

No threat,only a statement that you never did said it to me.

50. told everyone that I don't own the store

repeat,But your dad even says that you do not completely.

51. told josie that I called fish and game on her

never,But I will call Josie to have her post something

52. told everyone that the VCR was NOT running at the time of the burglary?

did I?

53. told the detective that he (Dave) has a report from the Vet saying that the snake that was stolen died BEFORE the burglary?

when did I tell him that?The only 2 times I have talk to him was the day he called me to find out where you posted that he talked to me,When he never did,And the next morning to ask for a copy of the posted e-mail and your retraction.


Neil,keep running your mouth,soon the report will be posted and all the world will know all about Neil.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

First off I have nothing against you Dave at all. And I have nothingagainst Neil.  To be honest I have talked to both of you on many occasions.  I do think that you are acting like little kids on this situation.  Shut up until the Report is posted and or until court action is accomplished.  With you jus tre-stateing the same things over and over and over again do nothing but make you look like your clawing for a grip.  If it is true about Neil (which I doubt very seriously) then we will find out then the court is done with.  But for the both of you to keep going and going on about the same things, i.e. he said, she said, I said. is ludicrous.  When is the last time on this thread that something has been prooven? I have seen no proof that he robbed his store, and I have seen no proof that you had anything to do with it. I am suprised that tyour attorney (if you have retained one yet Dave) has let you keep opening your mouth about the sitiuation.  If you truly have evidence about neil then why the hell would you keep making yourself look less and less credible with every post.  And The same for Neil, if you have proof, please file it with the court and get this thing DONE! I hate seeing 2 people in the Herp Industry ruin their names like you two are trying to do to each other and yourselves.  Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[franklinedwards60]

I want to know how Dave knows what the report says when Rich has yet to see the report?


And Rich is the one that paided the bill off.

 

[Dave Lawson]

Well Franklin,Remember back about 100 or so pages,I said that I was talking to Mr.Crowley about working on proving or dis-proving that Neil did it.Well I did not have to hire him due to the fact that T.P.D. already had him on it.So once I saw that he had finished A Report I called to get a copy for my suit.I was told of his findings and could not be happier.But you will get to read itr for yourselves in a few days.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Dave

I have a few questions for you. Have you retained an attorney? Have you filed paperwork for a "suit"? What type of Suit is it you've filed or will file? If you have not filed a suit, why not keep your mouth shut until you file it? Why not keep your mouth shut until the court hearing?  If you hae not filed any court papers and have not retained an attorney you really should stop making idle threats.  If you have retained an attorney who is the attorney? When is the court hearing? or when is the Docket? Also if the case is still an open investigation, you might be subjected to legal action yourself from TPD. Hindering an investigation is a crime the last time I checked.

 

[franklinedwards60]

Dave,

can you atleate post something here so we can all verify that you are going to or have already received a copy of the report. Thank you Frank

 

[Dave Lawson]

Let me clear this up.I call Crowley about getting a report,but I not gotten one as of yet.

 

[HallsHerps]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So once I saw that he had finished A Report I called to get a copy for my suit.I was told of his findings and could not be happier</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>.....tell us</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let me clear this up.I call Crowley about getting a report,but I not gotten one as of yet</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>then prove it ....
this whole ordeal reminds me of several hi profile cases ....
~Clinton & Monica ..... Condit & levy ....OJ & the gloves ....
but unlike them no matter what happens here no one wins .... plain & simple <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

 

[hanoverherps]

I know for a fact, Dave, you are a liar, probably a cronich one at that.  You keep coming on here spewing sh!t from your mouth and give hardly anything to back it up.  Like everyone else has said, don't post if you can't back it up.  What is it that makes you want to ruin someone as much as you want to ruin Neil??  Try some therapy to get rid of that anger you have pent up inside, it might help.  
 Dave, your past speaks for itself, period.  I know for a fact you have made other calls to other people telling them lies.  I will ask the people I got the information from to come here and post the things they told me, if they won't, I'll ask for permission to post the e-mails they sent me.  I know none of you involved personally, but with all the accusatiuons you've been throwing with no proof, how could you expect any of it to be believed??  
 Again I'll ask, what did Neil do to you to make you want to destroy him so much??  You seem to know so much about everything, what do you know about your involvement in the burglaries that you are not telling in full?  Were you involved in the thefts??  Did you and others make a deal to hit the store and something went wrong, so you need to place the blame on others?  Did they start looking at you and you wanted to point the finger at Neil to make them look somewhere else??  How is it that you know so much more than everyone else??  Why would you want to put yourself in the position you have to make the accusations you have??  What's in it for you??  How do you know about the cage being too much to move, nailed to the floor, can't move it from outside the window??  I could go on and on with questions, I'll think of some more for you if you can answer any of these.
 I could come here accusing you of all of this and like you, back it up with nothing.  I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just asking questions, right??  Have any answers??
 These are only my thoughts and opinions, sorry if some of you don't like them.  
 Bob

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Bob....very good questions....I wouldn't mind knowing the answers myself?

Ya know...."Thou doth protest too much"!! ....Neil

 

[JENNY MARTELIZ]

Dave,
Ray is too busy taking care of his snakes to deal with this, and this IS AGAINST his wishes that I respond to your name calling.

You have been calling Neil a liar, but I don't think people remember the lies you told back in December. You also lied to the Tampa Police Department. The tapes I mentioned last week are being transcribed. What you don't realize is that all calls to the police are recorded, and a matter of public record, kept for one year. It cost my husband $20.00, but he got the proof he needed to show you are a liar. The only reason he doesn't sue YOU for slander is because you don't have a pot to pi$$ in or the window to throw it out of. I'm just thankful that it was a cop that knows us, and didn't come to my house with his gun drawn, because if he had shot Ray because of your misinformation, you'd be doing life!

No matter how this turns out, in Neil's favor, or yours, I'm not taking sides, but I feel your credibility is non-existant, and there will be proof of such by week's end from the transciption of the tapes. Maybe Neil's attorney can tell you how to verify the authenticity of these tapes, if ANY OF YOU have questions about it.

 

[Devonrep]

Hey Rob, did you get confused or is it me???
Wasnt it Neil who first promised to take him to court , but only filed a "Cease and Desist" order?

Bob, a bit harsh I think.  Dave was dragged into this mess by Neil....Remember???
The only thing this thread has shown so far is that Neil has lied often and used the memory excuse far to often.
With regards to the burglary the report should hopefully reveal the person behind it.
If it is shown to be Neil are we going to hear "lies lies lies nothing but lies"<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>    -I sadly suspect yes and again the saga will continue.    

I again, recommend that we await the report from the unbiased third party.  

Hopefully neither will have been involved and we can rest this thread forever.  

Devon Smith

 

[WebSlave]

I have to admit that I hope my mailbox can hold up to the heat that this hot potato of a report is going to generate sitting in there.  If it weren't for my commitment to make it public, I would just as soon run it through the shredder and be done with it.  Certainly with all the talk of attorneys bouncing around in here, whomever comes out on the short end of the stick in that report is going to be upset at me for posting it publicly.  I guess it's been too long since the last threatened lawsuit, so I suppose I'm due for one.

But anyway, I expect this report to be a stack of papers sent to me in an envelope, which I will not read.  You heard me right:  I will not read the report.  Matter of fact, I may inquire about taking it to a transcribing service to have it converted to data on a floppy or zip disk that I can just upload to the server, as is.  That way, you will all read it, as I will, after it has been posted publicly.  Perhaps that way I could dodge the bullet of 'knowingly' publishing some information damaging to one or more parties that may be mentioned in an unflattering light.  I do not now know what is in the report, and will not know until I read it myself on this board after it is published.

This will also eliminate the possibility of my being accused of editing the report or in any way altering exactly what was sent to me by Mr. Crowley, for whatever reason someone may be able to come up with.  I have tried very hard to stay neutral in all this, but in such a case, usually that only gets both sides thinking I am probably siding with the other side.

Oh yeah, there is one other fly in the ointment.  I have to make an inquiry to the Tampa Police Department to determine if posting this report publicly may be construed as hindering an ongoing investigation.  I do not know if there is actually an open investigation in progress, but I do believe it would be in everyone's best interests if I inquire first before doing anything that might later be deemed unwise or unlawful.

With all of the above firmly in mind, please understand why this has to be the only message I will post about this report until it is actually published here.  And yeah, certainly it will drive me nuts to have that report sitting here and TPD were to tell me to NOT publish it until they give the OK!  But if anyone has a better idea or thinks I am looking at this wrong, please let me know.

Thanks.

 

[Dave Lawson]

Bob,If you read the thread you will see tat each and every question that you have ask is answered by me.

Jenny,I am at a loss for words over what you have said about tapes,police and what not due to the fact that I have no idea what you are talking about.Feel free to do as you like.Since you are talking,When did I tell Ray any of the thing in Neil's list?

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Rich Z. ....as far as I'm concerned....you can publish that report on the BOI with or without the TPD's approval! To ME...I really don't care if it says that I am the mastermind of an organization that I put together to rid the world of herps...one store (mine) at a time!! Personally, Rich....I wouldn't even think about suing you (or Fauna) for any reason whatsoever!! You have been too nice to me, and I'm not that vindictive....
It's obvious (from the FIRST word of Tom's "report excerpt" that you posted), that Dave told Tom to concentrate on me from the very beginning, and I'm sure Dave gave Tom ALL his verifiable (provable) information that we've all seen here?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> Yeah, right! hahahaha
Tom's report won't phase me in the least, no matter what it says! Publish it whenever you want, with my blessings!

As far as the tape Jenny Marteliz referred to....I HAVE the PHYSICAL tape in my hands!! I will bring it to the Orlando show, so anybody that would like to listen to it, can! ....but, if you want to get an idea of what it says....it's a tape made by the TPD of a 911 call from Dave Lawson....it has Dave telling them that the Marteliz' have a lot of guns in their house and they are running around outside waving them around and that they threatened Dave with them?? Dave is actually telling the TPD that they should be very careful when approaching their house because they have very dangerous animals that live there (amidst all the guns), and the TPD should take no chances and have their OWN guns drawn because they MIGHT have to shoot Ray and Jenny! It's absolutely incredible! THIS is the type of person you're dealing with in Dave Lawson!! And YES! I really do have the actual tape in my hands!! This is NOT just hearsay that everybody is so often subjected to by Dave! This is the REAL DEAL!! ....Neil

 

[HerpVenue]

You = anyone

It does not really matter who the PI concentrated on.
If you are innocent then as a third non biased party... I think he would have found you as innocent.
Even if an investigation is centered on you....if you are innocent....the investigation should find you innocent.  Welp at least in a perfect world.  Then again..this is not a perfect world.



For a while there....the question was. "Does a report exist?"
Then it moved to "who is implicated on the report?"
Soon we are going to find out who is implicated on the report...
If it implicates someone else....then this stops right here right now.
But if it implicates a certain person...then this will still go on.
But I can see this going on and on.  I can already see hints that this is not over.
Then we shall move to credibility of the PI ...OR  we are going to the words "prove it".

All I want to point out is....
If the PI implicated Dave...we would consider it the word of God.
If the PI implicated someone else...we would consider it the word of God.
But if the PI implicated a certain person (ng)....then we would start questioning the PI and asking even more questions.

I say you treat one person one way....then you should treat everyone one way.

I am already seeing double standards...AGAIN.
I will point out the double standards later....I do not want to fan flames right now.
I will fan them later.
I have shot the little ammo and waisted some of my time.
Now I will gather up the big gun and wait............see ya'll

 

[HerpVenue]

And Neil please do not e-mail me anymore of what you call "Dave's Lies".

As I have been telling you time and time again.  I do not believe everything he says.
I do not know whether you did this or not.  All I know is I wanted some questions answered...and they were either unanswered or lied to.  THAT is why I started questioning you the way I did.  Whether you stole your own animals or not does not matter to me.  Being "lied" to by a "friend" is what got to me.  Your animals DO NOT matter to me because I have no interest in anything you have.  I have other friends whose animals I really am interested in.  AND if they ever lie to me....welp you know the rest of the story.
So good luck with all the parites involved.

My involvment stops when the PI report comes out.
As a third NON BIASED party.  I will take his report as gospel.  That is my opinion ...  that is my right.

peace out

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

I know we should refrain from repeating questions many times, but contrary to what Dave has just said about answering all of his questions, I have yet to see an answer to this one...

Dave, how do you know what is on Mr. Crowley's report?  And as you pointed out that Neil seemed to be confused about his police reports being in his hand or not, you seem to be confused about whether or not you have/have seen the results of Mr. Crowley's investigation.  In one post, you said you called TPD, who had enlisted Mr. Crowley to help with their investigation of the burglaries, and that they provided you a copy/information of Mr. Crowley's findings on the matter.  Then in your next post, you say you called Mr. Crowley and you were NOT provided with a report.  Which is the truth Dave, or did you just forget that you didn't have the report(ala Neil forgetting the report numbers)?  

And just one more question that has been bugging me, maybe someone can point me to the right post here, but when did Neil state he hired another PI?  I have seen the question posted many times, "Why hire another PI Neil?"  But I do not recall this EVER being stated here or in the e-mails that have been posted here, but it is also very likely I missed it/forgot(seems to be alot of forgetting involved in this thread  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> )somewhere in the 88 pages of accusations and innuendo.  

But bottom line, once we all have the ACTUAL report posted here by Rich Z., there will be some interesting new twists turns, and memory lapses <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> .  However, I still personally question the validity of what is in Mr. Crowley's report due to his behaviour and attitude towards Rich Z.(the one who PAID for his services after all), but it will still be interesting to say the least.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Ritchie....Believe it or not...I'd like to (sincerely) apologize to you, too! I still DO consider you a friend! Even though we've had some "bad" words and phrases exchanged, I really DO respect the fact that you're trying (in your own inimitable way) to get to the truth....Ritchie, flame away....I'm NOT going to respond to any questions from here on out, it's a no-win situation for me, so I'll let the law do it's thing (whichever way it goes)....and you can speculate all you like!
I don't have any idea what the PI report will say...and, I really don't care...even IF the report came back saying that DAVE was the actual person that committed the burlaries....it's all supposition! Considering how amateurly Tom handled this investigation from the beginning....I wouldn't give you two cents for anything he says....no matter WHO he points a finger at! (myself or Dave or someone else)....to ME...it means nothing! ....Neil