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The term LTC??

J

JasonBrennan

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I am not sure which section I should post this question, so I will just post it here and see what happens.

I am wondering what the general consensus is regarding the term LTC? How long does an animal have to be in captivity to be considered a long term captive?? I ask because I see so many ads that say something along the lines of "LTC of 2 months, LTC of 4 months" etc??

Is it just me, or is 2 - 4 months not very long?? Just wondering what some of you consider "long term captive"??
 
I don't sell WC animals so I'm no expert. I would expect that if an animal is advertised as a LTC it should have been in captivity for a minimum of 6 months to a year. It should be healthy and feeding well unless the customer has been told otherwise in advance.
Just my opinion.
Chris Raden
 
According to the Webster-Meriam dictionary...

Jason,

In my opinion that question has as many answers as sellers are out there. It's like measuring the length of a snake with a "rubber ruler", it depends on how much you stretch it...

To me it's more a term that has to be related to the animal being well established, not stressed and eating regularly, some LTCs are even proven breeders! If a snake has never ate for the owner, I don't care if it has been 4, 6, or 12 months in captivity. I invariably associate the term LTC with a well acclimated, healthy, eating reptile.
 
LTC

I have to agree with Dan on this one. I think LTC should not be applied unless the animal is eating, has formed stool and has been checked and cleared of parasites. To me LTC means the animalis acclimated and ready for buyer relatively problem free. I do know that not all sellers agree and I also have seen this term applied to animals that have been in captivity for less than a few months. In some cases with a note refering to it having eaten at least 2 times. I guess that is why when I reply to an add I ask exactly how long have you had it and what is the animals general health? Is it eating readily and does it have formed stool, is it been checked and treated for parasites?

George
 
Well, I view the term LTC a little differently.... a TRUE LTC is an animal that has been in captivity for AT LEAST 6 MONTHS!.... But, to ME, the term LTC is generic.... it just means that the animal is NOT born in captivity.... that's why, you'll see LTC of 2 months, 4 months, whatever.... but, normally not with anything OVER 6 months!
LTC is just a term everyone understands.... it's like any tissue is called a Kleenex, or why most "CATSUP" is referred to as Ketchup (when only Heinz has the trade name).... It's just another tool to describe an animal.... if you see something like that you want further answers on.... just email the guy and ask???.... If he doesn't respond with what you want to hear.... move on!.... It's that simple....

....Neil
 
Thanks for the responses.

This question was not in refrence to any animal that I am considering purchasing (I personally will never, ever knowingly buy an animal that is not CBB. Just a matter of personal choice).

I have just seen this term LTC thrown around alot, and it always seems to fluctuate ALOT as to what it really means. So, I was just curious, really.

Not saying anything good or bad about the practice, just wanted a little bit of clarification.
 
(I personally will never, ever knowingly buy an animal that is not CBB. Just a matter of personal choice).
Click to expand...

Jason, understanding it to be a matter of personal choice I certainly can't condemn you for your views, especially because you didn't say "I only buy CBB and you should too." but I would like to stress the importance of imported specimins in maintaining genetic diversity in captive stock.

Perfect example because of the tiny initial numbers and the reproductive rate would be say... Bearded dragons in the united states. The captive animals we have are small, weak, with poor immune systems, smaller clutches and much shorter lives. There is signifigant evidence linking these tendencies to inbreeding over multiple successive generations with no real influence of new stock.

I do respect your personal views on the matter and would never force you to change them even if I were capable of doing so but I do feel as a personal matter for myself that getting imports into the hands of qualified and experienced people after being collected through legal means is of vital importance to the hobby. I also think someone terming themself a "master zoo keeper" would be competent and educated enough to deal with some of those issues that crop up with WC Short or Long term captive animals and that you might be selling yourself short and missing out on some great deals by limiting yourself. With proper quarantine procedures and a bit more thought put into the individual animal's care, you can add some great breeding stock of many species into your collection for very little money and a fairly minimal risk of direct animal loss.

Just something to consider, it always makes me glad to see someone who knows what they're doing work with imported animals when avaliable for the species they keep because it's positive for the industry as a whole when done legally and with forethought.
 
My opinion.

The term LTC should not be used on any animals that have not gone through a full years worth of climactic and seasonal changes. We may keep our animals in relatively constant conditions (if not trying to cycle them) but many animals have internal clocks that are preset to trigger certain biological and physical behavior. Adult balls are an example. If you import one in the spring, keep it for 6 months and them advertise it as LTC, people may get the idea that they will be getting a problem free animal, only to have it go through a 4 month fast the week after they get it. If you have kept the snake for a year you will have a better idea if that snake will shut down for 4 months.

personally I would rather see the term replaced with something like 2 month captive, or 4 month captive etc. Terms that actually mean something, and provide usefull information. The term LTC really means nothing since there is no set standard. I understand it is an advertising tool for some people to draw attention to their products. If two adds are side by side, advertising the exact same animal and one says "LTC green basilisk" and the other just says "green basilisk" which one would you open if you could only open one (assuming you are interested in a green basilisk) In fact the two adds could be identical inside but the LTC caption would draw more veiws.


Steve Schindler
Tropical Oasis
 
Great post as usual Seamus! My favorite points: imports to boost genetic diversity in captive stock, the example of what has happened to beardies (and is getting worse and worse with the demand for high color), and having experienced keepers working with WC stock.

Now, for my 2 cents on the LTC word--I agree that it gets overused, but what can you do. I've seen people use it on animals that I know were just brought in or I even asked someone once who said they had had it for 2 weeks--I guess that is long for them. Ideally I think it should be reserved for animals that have been around for over a year, but at least 6 months. For all others, why not just say "well acclimated", "feeding", "dewormed" or something along those lines. "LONG" term captive implies something different to me. But, I see the way that it is and just accept it with a grain of salt. I just ask a lot of questions. And make sure to have meds handy.

Dana
 
This is for Seamus

Just so you know, the phrase under my name is a joke. I have ALOT of pets, and most of them are actually mammals. Only 12 (presently...) are reptiles. My wife very often calls our house a zoo, (as does my brother and parents when ever they visit), so I just threw that phrase up there because I could. I don't even know if it is an actual title that is used at the zoo.

I am not a breeder. That is why I don't want WC animals. I have pets, not investments. I do know that it is necessary to have WC animals under certain circumstances, just not for mine. I have no need for them.

You used the example of breaded dragons and how frail the breeding population in captivity is. I must confess to knowing next to nothing about bearded dragons!! In fact, I don't think I have ever even held one. I like snakes. Don't like turtles, lizards, frogs, salamanders, etc. (Actually, I do "like" them, but just so long as they belong to someone else. I like poodles in the same way, LOL!!)

Anyways, thanks for the responses. I am glad I asked the question, thou, as it has given light to several different views on the subject.
 
Although it's been said, yes, the term "Long-term Captive" aka "LTC" has been thrown around way too much.

This is not meant as an ad, but I am currently selling some leaf-tail geckos that I consider to be true LTC. They have been in my care for close to two years, are feeding well, doing well, and have been breeding for me. To ME, LTC should be used on animals that have been in captivity a MINIMUM of one year(and preferrably in the hands of only the seller for that period of time). I have also seen the LTC fresh imports and it makes me angry. Exactly how is one to three weeks "long-term?"

Anyway, I guess the bottom-line is to be wary of those touting that they have "LTC" animals and just by from the people you trust at the terms that are to your liking.

Cheers!
 
Long Term Care

has always bewildered me as well. It reminds me of someone coming out of a convelecent home. I never use the term because of its ambiguity. Either its captive bred or its not. The fact that someone has had it for 3 months, 6 months, etc. does not seem to really indicate what the underlying factors are. Its an import. Plain and simple. Unless they mean long term captive, and then that would be a different story.

The term is nothing more than an inducement to sell the product. It has been used so frequently, that it no longer has any value in determining its saleability. JERRY TRESSER
 
I agree with Rob and Jerry and the term " LTC " should not be used on an animal that has been a long term captive for no less than a minimum of one year ! The term has been so over used it really doesn't mean anything anymore. IMHO the term is mostly used by people with no confidence in their animals because they are imports and they want to make them more acceptable whether the animals are LTC or not, they want to sell them as quick as possible. And I think it's only fair to point out that of course no one in the reptile trade ever lied about an animal, that would be unethical.......LOL


Gary
 
LTC

Hey just a thought here. Supposed everyone just stated how long they have had the animal. Then all the buyers would know exactly what was meant..........lol. I guess that would be to much comon sense and would leave no room for guessing. Oh well just a thought.
 
Not a bad idea George but that would be the ideal situation and I think we would all appreciate that.
 
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