Think about this........

[lilraider]

You always hear about crickets being more better than mealworms as far a nutrients.But if you were to regularly feed not just gutload mealworms properly that they would be just as healthy for them?

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Huh????

 

[DeVackHerps]

lost me as well?.?.? sorry for not seeing it, had a long day at work.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

Uhhhhhhhhh??!!??

I THINK you are trying to say well gutloaded mealworms are just as good as cricket... I think.

For the most part, this is true. There is the issue of meat to shell ratio, which is better in a cricket no matter how much you gutload the worm. There are other differences as well.

It's commonly accepted that you can have perfectly healthy geckos raised on mealworms.

 

[lilraider]

Uhhhhhhhhh??!!??

I THINK you are trying to say well gutloaded mealworms are just as good as cricket... I think.
.

thats it!!! sorry guys its a monday and Science was so boring and long today as well as my other classes

 

[saltwaterreptiles]

I find the best is to offer my geckos a variety... I use mealies as the main core of thier diet, maybe 60-70 percent, I supplement with crickets and the occasional super as well. My gravid female might even get a waxie if they ask nicely

 

[Xelda]

I don't think gutloading mealworms will make them come even close to being as nutritious as crickets. Mealworms will always be twice as fattening as crickets. And while you can raise animals entirely on mealworm diets alone, it's not healthy for them.

 

[Junkyard]

I would think that each insect would digest differently too. For example, I am allergic to milk, my wife is not. Does that make sense? I have cats that digest the same food we feed them differently, two do not have problems with the food while the third does. IAMS dog food is supposed to be great for dogs, but some dogs cannot properly dogest the corn that is in it while others thrive on IAMS. Just a thought, sorry to butt in.

 

[Xelda]

I would think that each insect would digest differently too. For example, I am allergic to milk, my wife is not. Does that make sense? I have cats that digest the same food we feed them differently, two do not have problems with the food while the third does. IAMS dog food is supposed to be great for dogs, but some dogs cannot properly dogest the corn that is in it while others thrive on IAMS. Just a thought, sorry to butt in.

That's very true! It's why different species of bugs have different nutritional values even when they've been fed the same food. Some insects are more evolved to digest plant tissue while others aren't nearly as efficient.

 

[Linz M]

I totally agree with Xelda - variety is the spice of life. But crickets totally sketch me out and I hate keeping them (roaches are fine with me) so my guys only get crickets every couple weeks - last time at least 4 of them got stuck to some duct tape in my pet supply room and it was awful! My critters get everything else regularly and like Junkyard pointed out, I agree that each type of prey seems to offer something different due to different metabolic rates and digestive action. Additionally, different geckos prefer different things and I assume they know what they need. Some of mine won't readily eat superworms and a few won't touch waxies. (and no, my geckos are not addicted to wax worms )

As for feeding mealworms and gutloading them...those terms seem synonymous to me. I think my mealies are as packed full of good vitamins and good stuff as they could be. I DO have to say that the mealworms that I've bred myself look SO much plumper, brighter, and just healthier than the ones I get in bulk...but that just may be because they've never been in the fridge!

 

[A_Kendergirl]

As for feeding mealworms and gutloading them...those terms seem synonymous to me. I think my mealies are as packed full of good vitamins and good stuff as they could be. I DO have to say that the mealworms that I've bred myself look SO much plumper, brighter, and just healthier than the ones I get in bulk...but that just may be because they've never been in the fridge!

I know exactly what you mean. The mealworms I breed are sooo much better looking.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with everything that has been said. I just don't think mealworms are as bad as they can be made out to be. And will that darned "eating the stomach" tale ever die?

I HATE crickets. Therefore, my guys get mealworms, superworms, roaches, and every now and then a wax worm. Roaches are my favorite feeders, and some of my geckos agree! Others won't touch them (she's a worm girl, doesn't like crickets either).

 

[Linz M]

Reasons Crickets are Narsty:
**Disclaimer: I do still feed em for the nutrition. I'm not saying people shouldn't. Just that, well, they're nasty and I hate them.

1) High body count (ahem, I mean death rate). They die when you DONT want 'em to and they WONT die when you want them to.
2) They eat everything. Poo. Cardboard. Each other. Mealworms. Dirty little carnivores.
3) They smell. No matter what.
4) They're creepy...they can get seriously maimed, lose a leg, be oozing internal juices, whatever and they still act like life is peachy.
5) They are talented escape artists. That one in the hall closet that won't stop chirping? Yeah. I want to kill that sucker. Somehow, he lives on...
6) My cat chews them up and spits them out around the house when he catches them - explain that to anyone that comes over and happens to find a wad of chewed up cricket somewhere inappropriate
7) When I dust the smaller ones with certain supplement brands, I always end up killing them - death by powdered calcium suffocation - then I feel terribly guilty about it.
8) Pin worms? Ick.

Shanti, you should have seen the ones that got themselves stuck to the duct tape. *shudder* It was awful. I tried to "save" them and couldn't get them off whole. So I guiltily left them there over night and they still maintained - they'd reached over and completely eaten one of their buddies. It was pretty horrendous.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

OH NO!! ROFL! I guess they had time for a little snack while waiting some someone to unstick them.

 

[1derfool]

Gutloading seems to have morphed into a term for The Last Supper, though regular feeding is the same deal. Good food throughout the feeder's life will grow a better bug.

I've posted the following nutrition "Makes you stop and think" info many times in forums (probably saw it on the KS Leo forum years ago).

If you are going by insect analysis charts, you have to consider who sponsored the analysis. Cricket farms are famous for trying to prove their bugs are better than mealworms (and superworms). Most of the online charts and those in books, lean heavily in favour of the product the sponsor is selling. Would it make sense to have a cricket farm as a sponsor and then prove a competing product is better, or just as good? The outcome of any insect nutritional value analysis is only a sample, can be affected by so many variables, and even outright fudged in many ways. There's no telling how the the insects and worms in any analysis were gutloaded, which has a major affect on outcome, so take the analysis results with a grain of salt.

Consider any anaylsis you've seen, and think about this: We do assume they fed all the various bugs properly to get an honest assessment, however, it's known that gutloading ingredients can affect the outcome. I'm not saying they deliberately fiddled to get good results in the bugs they're trying to push, but look at it this way. Crickets are known to fare well on grain, veggies, fruit and even dry dog or cat food, so you feed them well on all of thiese for a few days. Mealworms are often just put in bran - it's got lots of nutrients but compared to the cricket diet, it sucks big time. If the mealworms in the study were kept that way, they're going to come out way short on nutrition. It's easy to increase their fat content by adding a relatively oily grain or even peanuts.

If the crickets had been fed just before the analysis, they'd come up with a glowing nutritional report, since all the nutrients in their food are still inside the crickets.. On the other hand, if the mealworms had to wait unfed for 12 hours for their turn to hit the blender, they'd have pooped out a lot of nutrients that wouldn't be available for the analysis. Just one of the things that can affect the final outcome.

I can make up a batch of the fattiest crickets you've ever seen, use them for a few months and your leos wil be oozing more oil than a texas oilwell.... just give the crickets the skin from you KFC supper. They love the stuff (as do roaches). Just goes to show it's quite possible to fudge the results of any analysis, and what you get with your critters depends on what you feed them.

Let's just say, the best you can get from an analysis is a list of nutrients and 'most likely' proportions, dependent on the care and feeding they had prior to the test. If you're going to rate one type of bug as better than the other, make sure they all started the test in prime condition, well fed, didn't have to wait ages between the last supper and the blender, and allow for human error during the test (after all, it's not a matter of life and death, worldwide implications, so the test isn't done under the most stringent control conditions).

You are what you eat - even if you're a cricket or mealworm. Crickets are only going to be better food if they're fed and raised better. Adjust the food for both feeders and you can give your leo good nutrition no matter which one you use.

 

[raiquee]

Good post Hilde!

I also hate crickets, but i do believe variety is wonderful for these guys. I personally feed a diet of silkworms, hornworms, superworms, and the occassional wax worm treat My hatchlings get mealworms mainly supplemented by baby hornworms and baby silkworms

But yes, i hate crickets as well, mainly the smell and i'd have to keep them in my room! Blech! I already have superworms, silkworms, hornworms and mealworms in my room! God! lol

 

[DontShootMe]

Well I think Ron Tremper has posted somewhere that his leo stock is mostly raised on only mealies and reading from the information and knowledge of his book I don't know if anyone else knows leo's as well as he does.I know that it wasn't all from his head and from research and stuff but 20+ years this guy has been doing this. I'm not leaning and saying meal worms are the best, just saying that they aint the worst because it seems like some people are just saying that meal worms are just plain bad for your leo.

1derfool has an awesome opinion which I totally agree with. So all we need is just a person who can do these test by giving both the same amount of time and same amount of "gut-load" food and do the test analysis for there.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I spoke at length to Dr. Daniel Wentz from Rep-Cal at the NARBC Show and through email that it is practically impossible to properly gut-load a mealworm. It seems they do not absorb and retain nutrients in their bodies because their GI system is very short and it passes straight through them. Crickets, on the otherhand, absorb and can build up quite a load of supplementation in their bodies.

But, because crickets can do this, they also can build up large loads of bacteria and even toxins, too. If crickets are fed on fresh foods, have the die-offs in the bins cleared out daily, and fresh water replaced daily, they won't stink as bad. It is the bacteria from the dead crickets and slimy water that is bad news.

I currently feed my geckos about 50-60% gut-loaded/dusted crickets, 30-40% mealworms, and the rest in silkworms with occasional waxies. I don't know if a variety is really all that important to the geckos, but it makes me feel better!

 

[MONITORMIKE1]

All of my geckos are fed on a diet of super worms and they are all growing good and are healthy as can be. I do offer crickets about once a month or so but i find the super worms 2 work the best.
Mike Harris

 

[Xelda]

Hilde, you have to also consider the morphology of crickets and mealworms. Mealworms are in the larval stage, which means their whole job is to eat and build up a fat storage to last them through their pupation when they're unable to eat for awhile. That in itself makes them much more fattening than crickets which don't go through a metamorphosis. Another thing to think about is that mealworms aren't even close to being a natural food source for leopard geckos. I can understand grubs being a staple diet for moles and shrews which spend their whole lives burrowing underground. But when would a leopard gecko repeatedly stumble upon any type of grub? So why would anyone want to make that a staple diet for them when they weren't evolved to eat a diet of mostly grubs? At least crickets and roaches are more closely related to the bugs that leos would encounter in the wild.

Brian, Ron Tremper uses mealworms because it makes maintenance easier, not necessarily because they are a nutritious feeder for your pets. Did you know that he was the one who introduced superworms as feeders? Going back to what Hilde said, of course he's going to promote the use of superworms and mealworms. It was his idea.

I've completely eliminated mealworms from my leos' diets for over a year now. I just don't like how the adults become when they're in the habit of eating from a bowl. They sleep all day and only get up to eat and then sometimes they just don't eat at all. I prefer to keep their senses sharp by making them have to hunt for their food. Not surprisingly, my leos look better than they ever have before, and none of them EVER skip meals now. They're also much more active, alert, and toned. To me, that's a better sign of health than making them grow as fat as possible.

 

[MONITORMIKE1]

I don't think gutloading mealworms will make them come even close to being as nutritious as crickets. Mealworms will always be twice as fattening as crickets. And while you can raise animals entirely on mealworm diets alone, it's not healthy for them.

The part you where you said"while you can raise animals entirely on mealworm diets alone, it's not healthy for them.".Thats crap they do fine if not better on meal worms.ALL of my geckos are still active and growing.heres some pics of my unhealthy geckos lol.
Mike Harris