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PaulSage

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Right now I have 1.1 adult balls and 0.2 babies that are ~300gr (all are normals). I had started with 2.4 of the babies, as I was hoping to some day start breeding them. But then, I thought "nah, there's a lot of other people jumping into breeding balls, and by the time I start producing any the market will be flooded." So, I started selling a few of the babies. When I got down to the last two girls though, I stopped advertising them because I can't help but want to at least try breeding them.

Here's the thing though, my favorite morphs are the spider and mojave. I've been thinking about spending the $4-5K on a male and maybe finding another couple little females to start growing up. I don't have any intentions of mass producing them or retiring off of them much less making a profit. However, I would like to at least break even within 3 years or so. My concern is that if I pay today's market price for one of these kick-butt animals, will the market prices have dropped on those morphs enough in the next 3 years that I will not even be able to replenish the $4-5K I spend today on one of them?

I guess I'm just curious what others speculate will happen to the market price of the spiders and mojaves. Would it make more sense to wait another year or so before getting one?
 
I think I would get the females close to breeding size before making the big purchase. Most times you can breed the males at smaller sizes and purchase breeder size males for the same or slightly more than the hatchling cost. Then the market will have less time to drop from purchase to breeding. Plus if the market for that morph drops drastically while your raising your females you can pick them up cheaper or change to something else. :)
 
Paul, rethink your starting position on this. You can buy a male mojave or male spider this spring for $1500-2000 a piece easily. In 1-2 years maximum, they will be ready to breed to your two normal females. So lets say you breed a spider to your two girls. You get one clutch (be realistic to avoid dissapointments), 6 eggs, 3 are spiders, they are worth only $1000 each. You made a profit even after food and upkeep your first season. The next year you breed them you are now piad on your initial investment. It costs $150-200 for you to feed and keep the snakes for the year and then the next year even if you only produce 3 more spiders at $750 each, that is just basically profit and at any point you could sell the adults and make a profit from the sale as they already paid for themselves. E
 
Good advice. Thanks guys.

evansnakes said:
You can buy a male mojave or male spider this spring for $1500-2000 a piece easily.
Click to expand...

Wow. I guess I need to start shopping around a little more! lol That much I could handle without worrying too much about the returns. I'd just really like to have one because I think they're so darn cool. Deciding between the mojave and the spider isn't going to be easy, but if they're that much cheaper than I originally thought...
 
Here's what I would do in your situation, and this is just me.
Unless you buy additional adult females this year, you're only going to have one breeder for next season.
I'd hold off on buying a spider until 2007. I'd buy an 05 male pastel now, you can get one of good size for $700 or so. I'd also pick up at least four more females, as big as possible, but 500 gram girls would be good.
I'd breed the pastel to the female this coming winter and keep a female hatchling. The whole purpose of this plan would be to first, get a better price still on a spider and having extra females to put him with sooner after he is purchased. It would also set you up to produce a bumblebee. I'm assuming that if you're like me and really like the spiders, you love the BBs, same killer pattern with awesome color. The eventual production of a bumblebee for my own collection was the primary reason I bought my first pastel in 2004. By the time I produce one of my own they'll still be selling for more than I'd want to pay for a snake.
As for the mojave, again I'd probably wait until 2007 with your female situation. They'll be cheaper still and you'll have a head start on having girls ready.
There's no use in paying extra for a male now when he'll sit idle for another year anyway.
 
Thanks, Clay. You guys are giving me a lot to think about. I do really like the bumble bees, but I guess I had been writing them off as "unattainable".

My adult female is actually a wild caught. I hate admitting that, but I lucked out on her--no parasites, no scars. I have had her now for 12 months and although she's been a little weird when it comes to feeding, I always have something that she'll eat. I wasn't going to breed her to my adult male (he's just a pet--my first bp) I was just going to hang on to her until I found a co-dom male and grew him up. That would be awesome to find a mid-late '05 pastel male and breed her late this year if he's ready and willing. I'll check around next weekend to see what I can find for a pastel, and keep my eye out for a few '05 females. I do have 5 empty 24"x24" cages open and ready, so at least I don't have to sort that out.
 
Nothing is unattainable if you have the patience to do it the hard way. And if breeding reptiles for the last 15 years has taught me anything it's patience. I have 5 straight years of failure to produce boa constrictors to prove it. When I finally do see the pile of slimy neonates one day it will be all the more rewarding.
I do admit after a while the waiting wears on me and when I finally get a pied I'll most likely bite the bullet and buy a visual. The pieds have always been one of my favorites and I am willing to pay extra not to have to watch a couple of hets grow at that snails pace, which they always do when you're anxious for the babies to hatch.
 
Paul,
I'm the guy that never really cared for BPs...right up to the time I saw a beautiful lemon pastel, an awesome spider, and (gasp) a bumblebee. This was at the first show I attended since getting back into reptiles. I wanted one. Heck, I still want one. I even 24 females growing (though I have decided to part with at least half of them). I'm watching the prices go down, and plotting my steps...but my guess is that I need to hit some of the really big shows to find the kind of prices Evan is quoting, because I sure as heck not seeing them at the ones I attend. The $400-600 male pastels mostly look like crap to me. I'm not opposed to paying more for the right animal, but (as has been suggested above) I've decided to wait til my girls are bigger. If I see the right animal, at the right price, I'll buy it...but I'm not in a rush. Honestly, I've even been entertaining thoughts of just selling off my females, because I'm not sure I want to deal with baby balls. Advertised prices on bumblebees have dropped from $35000 in late '04/early '05 to $15000-17000 in late '05/early '06. Maybe I'll just buy one in 2010 if I still want one.
 
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