Info Thomas Dorn - aeterrabyte

[DaveyFig]

He seems to have lost all his bluster now that he no longer has the hope of paypal leverage.

I just figured his lawyer told him to keep quiet about their pending case.

 

[BornInBlood]

I'm seriously worried about the well-being of the little snake

 

[Charlotte&Loki]

He seems to have lost all his bluster now that he no longer has the hope of paypal leverage.

Yeah. I figured he'd come running back but I guess not.

 

[Shaun33]

Whether or not he comes back, I do hope he realizes his mistakes and does the right thing in regards to the health and well being of the snake. Even though he is in the wrong in this situation and try to hurt another man reputation, I do hope he learns from his mistakes. So Thomas, do the right thing. All I have to say about it.

 

[chadharper]

Hes been here just hasnt been replying.

 

[Pasodama]

Whether or not he comes back, I do hope he realizes his mistakes and does the right thing in regards to the health and well being of the snake. Even though he is in the wrong in this situation and try to hurt another man reputation, I do hope he learns from his mistakes. So Thomas, do the right thing. All I have to say about it.

I agree.
It does bother me to think that this beautiful little gal is in a home where she, apparently, isn't wanted. So, I pray that Mr. Dorn will do right by her.

 

[Lucille]

I received a PM from a new member who joined simply to tell me via PM that the breeder and buyer should have been left to work their issues out themselves.

Ovidieo Turco, I welcome you to Fauna and suggest that you take some time to look through the purpose of the BOI. Back in the old days prior to this site, parties were in fact usually left to work things out for themselves and sometimes, the result then (and now) is that justice was the will of the stronger.

I suggest that the BOI and bringing such transactions into the light of day is worthwhile and that those who read the account of what happened will be able to make their own better informed decisions in future transactions involving either party.

I further suggest that the concept that how one transacts business on the internet should somehow how be secret from 'real life' is a recipe for abuse.
There are real buyers and sellers here, there are those who have made significant financial outlays in building a reptile business.
I question any concept that involves the insistence that one party be allowed to perpetrate an injustice on another in secret. Our BOI has value both to the parties themselves, and to those who are considering future transactions.

 

[laterob]

Thomas emailed me last night. Please see below for email/responses. I'll post more later tonight.


Hi, Thomas -
I am glad to hear from you. Please see responses to your statements below (my responses in brown). As you've already said that I don't respond to emails, I'd like our communications to go through the BOI. Neither of us has anything to hide, and both of us would like transparancy, so I am sure you will understand. Less chance of confusion. I'll be posting this there shortly.

I have your snake, and she is in very good condition. I thought she was dying. Is she healthy? She's not my snake.

She still has the head wobble thing. All spider-gene carriers have it. You've stated that she had little wobble when you received her.

The snake shed and ate so she has a chance at being resold. I am glad to hear that. I wish you luck and reiterate that if your CC company refunds your purchase price, I'd like to see you auction her off and donate the proceeds to Fauna or a charitable organization.

I don't think she should be put down at all. Same answer as #1.

I am sure she will make a very nice pet for someone. I'd love to see her go to a home where she is wanted.

I just want to let you know if you see a charge back I am not trying to scam you out of your snake. PayPal decided in my favor...now it's between your credit card company and them.

I also wish there was a way you can take down your thread because it is very embarrassing. How we choose to portray ourselves is up to each of us as an individual. I posted an informational thread based on our transaction. I am not ashamed of anything I have done.

Depending where the website is located what they are doing is illegal. I believe this is covered in their terms, but I may be mistaken.

You know it is not that I want to start problems with anyone, I just want this thread taken down. I couldn't disagree with the first part of this statement more.

I asked you not to do that. I believe you said "If the snake has IBD I would rather you not start a tread (sic) on Fauna because that would be bad for both our businesses."

And you also posted my video with out my permission. I did, a full two minutes before you did. I would argue that once it was sent to me, your reasonable expectation of privacy was diminished. Same case with this email.


From: Thomas Dorn <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 11:57 PM
Subject: Your snake



I have your snake, and she is in very good condition. She still has the head wobble thing. The snake shed and ate so she has a chance at being resold. I don't think she should be put down at all. I am sure she will make a very nice pet for someone. I just want to let you know if you see a charge back I am not trying to scam you out of your snake. I also wish there was a way you can take down your thread because it is very embarrassing. Depending where the website is located what they are doing is illegal. You know it is not that I want to start problems with anyone, I just want this thread taken down. I asked you not to do that. And you also posted my video with out my permission.




836.02 Must give name of the party written about.—
(1) No person shall print, write, publish, circulate or distribute within this state any newspaper, magazine, periodical, pamphlet, or other publication of any character, either written or printed, wherein the alleged immoral acts of any person are stated or pretended to be stated, or wherein it is intimated that any person has been guilty of any immorality, unless such written or printed publication shall in such article publish in full the true name of the person intended to be charged with the commission of such acts of immorality.
836.03 Owner or editor of the paper also guilty.—Any owner, manager, publisher or editor of any newspaper or other publication who permits any anonymous communication or communications such as is signed otherwise than with the true name of the writer, and such name published therewith to appear in the columns of the publication in which said communication any person is attacked in his or her good name, or it is attempted to bring disgrace or ridicule upon any person, such owner, manager, publisher or editor shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.History.—s. 4, ch. 4733, 1899; GS 3258; RGS 5089; CGL 7191; s. 989, ch. 71-136; s. 1306, ch. 97-102.
836.11 Publications which tend to expose persons to hatred, contempt, or ridicule prohibited.—
(1) It shall be unlawful to print, publish, distribute or cause to be printed, published or distributed by any means, or in any manner whatsoever, any publication, handbill, dodger, circular, booklet, pamphlet, leaflet, card, sticker, periodical, literature, paper or other printed material which tends to expose any individual or any religious group to hatred, contempt, ridicule or obloquy unless the following is clearly printed or written thereon:
(a) The true name and post office address of the person, firm, partnership, corporation or organization causing the same to be printed, published or distributed; and,
(b) If such name is that of a firm, corporation or organization, the name and post office address of the individual acting in its behalf in causing such printing, publication or distribution.
(2) Any person, firm or corporation violating any of the sections of this statute shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—ss. 1, 2, ch. 22744, 1945; s. 996, ch. 71-136.




http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0836/0836.html

 

[chadharper]

What is ibd Ijust started raising boas and never heard of it

Thomas emailed me last night. Please see below for email/responses. I'll post more later tonight.


Hi, Thomas -
I am glad to hear from you. Please see responses to your statements below (my responses in brown). As you've already said that I don't respond to emails, I'd like our communications to go through the BOI. Neither of us has anything to hide, and both of us would like transparancy, so I am sure you will understand. Less chance of confusion. I'll be posting this there shortly.

I have your snake, and she is in very good condition. I thought she was dying. Is she healthy? She's not my snake.

She still has the head wobble thing. All spider-gene carriers have it. You've stated that she had little wobble when you received her.

The snake shed and ate so she has a chance at being resold. I am glad to hear that. I wish you luck and reiterate that if your CC company refunds your purchase price, I'd like to see you auction her off and donate the proceeds to Fauna or a charitable organization.

I don't think she should be put down at all. Same answer as #1.

I am sure she will make a very nice pet for someone. I'd love to see her go to a home where she is wanted.

I just want to let you know if you see a charge back I am not trying to scam you out of your snake. PayPal decided in my favor...now it's between your credit card company and them.

I also wish there was a way you can take down your thread because it is very embarrassing. How we choose to portray ourselves is up to each of us as an individual. I posted an informational thread based on our transaction. I am not ashamed of anything I have done.

Depending where the website is located what they are doing is illegal. I believe this is covered in their terms, but I may be mistaken.

You know it is not that I want to start problems with anyone, I just want this thread taken down. I couldn't disagree with the first part of this statement more.

I asked you not to do that. I believe you said "If the snake has IBD I would rather you not start a tread (sic) on Fauna because that would be bad for both our businesses."

And you also posted my video with out my permission. I did, a full two minutes before you did. I would argue that once it was sent to me, your reasonable expectation of privacy was diminished. Same case with this email.


From: Thomas Dorn <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 11:57 PM
Subject: Your snake



I have your snake, and she is in very good condition. She still has the head wobble thing. The snake shed and ate so she has a chance at being resold. I don't think she should be put down at all. I am sure she will make a very nice pet for someone. I just want to let you know if you see a charge back I am not trying to scam you out of your snake. I also wish there was a way you can take down your thread because it is very embarrassing. Depending where the website is located what they are doing is illegal. You know it is not that I want to start problems with anyone, I just want this thread taken down. I asked you not to do that. And you also posted my video with out my permission.




836.02 Must give name of the party written about.—
(1) No person shall print, write, publish, circulate or distribute within this state any newspaper, magazine, periodical, pamphlet, or other publication of any character, either written or printed, wherein the alleged immoral acts of any person are stated or pretended to be stated, or wherein it is intimated that any person has been guilty of any immorality, unless such written or printed publication shall in such article publish in full the true name of the person intended to be charged with the commission of such acts of immorality.
836.03 Owner or editor of the paper also guilty.—Any owner, manager, publisher or editor of any newspaper or other publication who permits any anonymous communication or communications such as is signed otherwise than with the true name of the writer, and such name published therewith to appear in the columns of the publication in which said communication any person is attacked in his or her good name, or it is attempted to bring disgrace or ridicule upon any person, such owner, manager, publisher or editor shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.History.—s. 4, ch. 4733, 1899; GS 3258; RGS 5089; CGL 7191; s. 989, ch. 71-136; s. 1306, ch. 97-102.
836.11 Publications which tend to expose persons to hatred, contempt, or ridicule prohibited.—
(1) It shall be unlawful to print, publish, distribute or cause to be printed, published or distributed by any means, or in any manner whatsoever, any publication, handbill, dodger, circular, booklet, pamphlet, leaflet, card, sticker, periodical, literature, paper or other printed material which tends to expose any individual or any religious group to hatred, contempt, ridicule or obloquy unless the following is clearly printed or written thereon:
(a) The true name and post office address of the person, firm, partnership, corporation or organization causing the same to be printed, published or distributed; and,
(b) If such name is that of a firm, corporation or organization, the name and post office address of the individual acting in its behalf in causing such printing, publication or distribution.
(2) Any person, firm or corporation violating any of the sections of this statute shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—ss. 1, 2, ch. 22744, 1945; s. 996, ch. 71-136.




http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0836/0836.html

This is a FLORIDA State Statue and has no bearing on this thread.

 

[Plethora Of Pythons LLC]

So, now the snake is in very good condition. If that is the case, why does he want to return it? It makes no sense at all.

Sorry you have to go through this Rob. I think you are doing the right thing by keeping it on BOI for all to see.

 

[Pasodama]

[/COLOR]


This is a FLORIDA State Statue and has no bearing on this thread.

Rich (owner of this site) resides in Florida. Although, that is immaterial.
There has been no defamation, against Thomas, as Rob has stated/posted only truth, his true beliefs, facts, etc. Others have posted that which is readily available via internet.
Thomas, OTOH, posted some things that would place Rob in bad light when what was stated was, apparently, untrue and was of a serious nature. However, due to certain circumstances, that I will not go into, Rob would be on shaky ground, at this point, as to whether, or not, he would win a defamation suit against Thomas.

 

[Lucille]

I just figured his lawyer told him to keep quiet about their pending case.

Perhaps he did not consult a lawyer.....

 

[Shadera]

Thomas, these are never taken down. Ever. No matter how much you hold your breath and stomp your feet. I hope it's finally sunk in that this very much will have a bearing on your future dealings around here. And elsewhere.

I agree, I'd like to see her end up in a home where she's wanted. It's hard to believe that in two years of expert-ness, Thomas had no idea spider gene critters have a propensity for wobble.

 

[Dracorex5]

I will never buy from Thomas Dorn, and I know that any friend or ally I make in the right mind never will either. This poor snake deserves better, I hope this paypal situation will inspire this confused and childish buyer to return the snake to good hands. What a beautiful little killer bee.... I'd pay an arm and a leg for a snake like that.

 

[PsycHD_Student]

Wow... I definitely didn't read all 80 pages, but after the first page I had a pretty good feeling that the buyer was a mess. Composes like a mess, does business like a mess, and cares for snakes like an ultimate mess. Whew! Glad all future readers have the chance to dodge a fast one!

 

[chazzz]

Okay I started writing this post when the thread was at page 21 but didn't get to finish. Then I came back to see that it was at page 86. So most of this post was written a few days ago but since I wrote it I thought I should post it. I added more after reading the rest of the thread. So I apologize if my post seems a bit out of place.


Wow, I must say that was a grueling 21 pages to get through! I was going to reply after reading the first few pages, but thought it would be better to read the entire thread first. If I'm going to comment I feel it's my responsibility to read everything presented. Mainly to get all the info presented and to make sure my questions or comments haven't already been addressed. Normally I don't mind reading long threads regardless if I'm going to comment or not. But this one has really been, a phrase that's been used in this thread a few times, "a train wreck!" I thought I was rereading pages because they were were so similar. It's like two pages have been copied and pasted 10 times. As if saying something over and over again is going to change peoples opinions on the matter. Then when that doesn't work resorting to name calling will somehow work in your favor. Anyway sorry for the venting I had to get that out after such an annoying read.

Thomas I know it's a hard pill to swallow that you could be responsible for the snakes current health issues. Just by going off of your own confessed actions and statements, you're a novice keeper at best. This is not an insult although I expect you will take offense to this. You have been keeping snakes for 2 years and only Ball Pythons, no one expects you to be an expert, except you it seems. You haven't been keeping snakes long enough to have even raised a baby to breeding age, again I'm not attacking. You are where you are with your capabilities, knowledge, and experience when it comes to captive husbandry. Around your friends and family that aren't into reptiles I'm sure you seem like a wizard but that changes when you are interacting with others with all manor of levels of experience and knowledge of reptiles. It's very obvious in this thread that your ego is getting the better of you and is will only get in your way of becoming a better keeper, even at the cost of a snakes life. You seem to have an answer for everything but haven't listened to anything most importantly your snake that is knocking on death's door. The best Keepers and Herpetologists don't have an answer for everything and when offered valuable information to turn a blind eye to it for the fear of being wrong. Sorry I'm getting a little preachy here but I really felt you needed to hear this. Whether you listen to what I have to say or least consider it, maybe not now or maybe never but I hope that's not the case as it only will benefit you and your animals.

Now to address the issues with the snake. I'm not going to tell you what exactly is wrong with your snake as that would be impossible from the info I have. I can offer my best guesses with the limited info. In the video I saw the tub sitting on a shelf with two rows of heat tape underneath, correct? You stated the snake didn't have heat for a couple days while you set up everything. You also stated that the tub has a thermostat. I'm guessing this thermostat runs more than just the one tub, if not can you explain your setup in more detail? You said rack but in the video it didn't look like a rack it looked like the tub was sitting on some type of shelf. What I would like to know is where is the probe located for the thermostat? With the tub having two rows of heat tape on either side doesn't leave any room for a temp gradient or any room to escape heat if the thermostat fails.

Going back to listening to what others are suggesting or more importantly listening to your snake and figure out what the issue is. For two weeks in your care the snake was doing great from the time it arrived, it was feeding and you saw no indications of illness. This passed Saturday the snake ate fine and I would assume looked fine going off what you have said. The following day the snake is not doing well, looked dehydrated so you administered fluids by inserting an airline tube in its mouth and far enough to passed it's glottis. How was the water forced through the airline tube as some type of pressure was needed to move the water? I hope you will answer these questions. I have never actually heard of anyone having to tube feed water to a snake that's dehydrated. If a snake is that dehydrated and unable to drink on its own then lactated ringers should be used. As plain water isn't enough to rehydrate a snake with evident health issues that is clearly dehydrated. Also I guess you're not aware that snakes and other reptiles that eat whole prey items like monitor lizards for example are able to satisfy their fluid intake from their prey as long as their living conditions aren't rapidly dehydrating them. In which case changes to your husbandry, setup are essential and tube feeding water isn't going to do any good and as seen here is more likely to cause harm.

(continued from where i left off-)

What a dehydrated snake would need is to replenish its electrolytes. For example diluted pedialyte or as I mentioned earlier lactated ringers. Also I find it extremely hard to believe that the day before the snake looked really dehydrated which caused you to force tube feed it water, that it looked fine and ate a meal no problem. If your setup wasn't the cause of this predicament, please tell me how it went from eating and healthy to looking so bad you decided to tube feed it water? If your conditions weren't the issue than how could it have lost so much fluid in one day. You do know that prey not only is a food source but is also a source of water. Since the snake had eaten the day before there was no need to shove a tube down its throat to add a couple drops of water. Anyway this has been addressed over and over again and it's very infuriating that you are unable to see the error in your ways! I also find it rather puzzling that if the snake was so dehydrated why in the world did your Vet that is so knowledgeable not administer fluids that contained saline and glucose, or lactated ringers solution subcutaneously.

Anyway most everything has been covered over and over again by many different people in this thread and not one person has even been remotely on your side with your reasoning. You really can't be that stubborn or think that your 2 years of keeping Ball Pythons makes you exempt from any mistakes. As i've mentioned earlier this type of attitude where there is no way you could of done something will severely stunt your learning in regards to the care and husbandry of snakes. You have blamed everyone including the snake which really hits a nerve with me, except even the possibility that you may have caused this situation. Well I have got some news for you it's always the keepers fault when something happens. Whether it's poor quarantine or the lack of knowledge for proper husbandry or the ability to notice signs of illness early enough to catch them in time the responsibility always falls on the keeper. No matter how you slice it there is no way around it. That's something you will hopefully learn one and if not I feel awful for your animals because they are the ones that will pay the ultimate price! This idea of defective snakes is ridiculous! Yes some snakes are born dead or have serious deformities and only survive a short while after birth just like any other animal including humans. But you were not sold a snake that falls in this category. You were sold a snake that was eating and healthy. Yes it does have the Spider wobble but that does not get in the way of the snakes ability to thrive. As soon as you decide to put an animal in a box you take full responsibility for its life. It can't create the proper conditions of its cage it can't go out and get its own food and water it relies on you for everything. So as fast as your ready to take credit for being such a great keeper and only ever having one snake get scale rot, you must also take credit for when this don't go well. And yes things will sometimes be out of your control but that still doesn't relieve you for being responsible. I could go on but I don't think any of this will sink in maybe one day you will remember it and your approach to how you keep your animals will change for the better but that's up to you.

Since I started writing this when it was on page 21 and just found the time to come back and finish my post might seem a bit dated since were up to page 86 now, unbelievable! I know I had other stuff I wanted to say but either someone else already covered it or it escapes me at the moment. Which is fine since you are so reluctant to see the obvious in this situation.

One last thing since I just read it, the snake shed and now its completely fine? All I'm going to say about that is read what you have written. Then really take a look at how much you think you know for the sake of the animals in your care!

Rob I'm really sorry you have to deal with this, and I commend you for keeping your composure through this whole ordeal! I wish you luck in ending this saga and moving on. I am glad that the snake is fine and that's the most important part.
Rob I wish you the best! And Thomas I hope that you will actually learn something from all this!

 

[Charlotte&Loki]

Any update with this, Rob?

 

[laterob]

Thomas has filed a credit card chargeback, which is in process. His claim is significantly not as described or damaged. I haven't spoken with the doctor, he hasn't provided any evidence that she isn't healthy, he hasn't taken her anywhere for any tests,...

I have not communicated with him since my last post.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Go Figure.

He gave up cause hes a sneaky scamming tool. He knows that snake is healthy now, and when he gets the money, he will keep the snake as well.

I hope those that contacted his University kept up on it so they know how shady he is. Imagine this behavior once he has a PhD.

 

[Lucille]

Go Figure.

He gave up cause hes a sneaky scamming tool. He knows that snake is healthy now, and when he gets the money, he will keep the snake as well.

I hope those that contacted his University kept up on it so they know how shady he is. Imagine this behavior once he has a PhD.

I suppose where to go from here depends on what Rob wants to do.